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How do you guys mix Reverb?
Old 7th May 2006
  #1
Gear Addict
 

How do you guys mix Reverb?

For creating depth - imaging etc.?

Are there more ways to incorporate reverb in the mix than just the echo sends/returns? Like bringing back on separate channels etc? EQing reverb, delayed reverb?

Thanks,

Woods
Old 7th May 2006
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by woods
For creating depth - imaging etc.?

Are there more ways to incorporate reverb in the mix than just the echo sends/returns? Like bringing back on separate channels etc? EQing reverb, delayed reverb?

Thanks,

Woods

Yes to all the above.
Old 7th May 2006
  #3
Do a search for thrillfactor's reverb posts ... he's a specialist.
Old 7th May 2006
  #4
Lives for gear
reverb

I always prefer to have the reverb on it's own channel because you can treat it like an instrument and EQ it, compress it, and even automate panning of it. To me the EQing makes a huge difference. Sometimes I will dip out everything below 400hz and boost the **** out of12khz to accenuate the sibiliance of a vocal on purpose, creating a very up front sound.

The possibilities are endless this way.
Old 7th May 2006
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
he's a specialist.

This maybe because as Dave-G gives me hard time all the time, i am stuck in the 80's.


And as we all know reverb and effects or the over use of it was a big thing back then.
Old 7th May 2006
  #6
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
This maybe because as Dave-G gives me hard time all the time, i am stuck in the 80's.

i keep seeing fashion/trend headlines stating that the 80's are becoming popular again, and i keep thinking the same thing: only with those who don't actually remember them.

80's aesthetics were awful! there, i said it.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 7th May 2006
  #7
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adamcal's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b i k

80's aesthetics were awful! there, i said it.

del ubik
10 years is a long time in music, what 80's are you referring too,

Just for me, I think in the UK early 80's new romantic bands were great new and original (ultravox, duran duran, Japan), then back in the US Toto, Prince, early Rap, beastie boys, CD's were awesome.

everyone could pick any decade and find bands and production styles they love and hate.
Old 7th May 2006
  #8
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feyshay's Avatar
 

80's. I hated music in the 80's. But let's see--Talking Heads, REM, XTC, U2. There was a lot of crap, though. Kind of like this decade so far.
Old 7th May 2006
  #9
I'm working with a "New 80s" band that rocks ... keys and a British flair, sure ... but guitars and drums that really rock. If that's the new trend, you'll dig it!
Old 7th May 2006
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Thrill's reverb posts.

Will do. Thanks Lucey.

But in general - how much emphasis or imortance or reliance do you guys put on reverb in the mix process? In todays recording/mixing trend.

Woods
Old 7th May 2006
  #11
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcal
10 years is a long time in music, what 80's are you referring too

i'd say roughly 1982 til, oh, about 1992. i've always espoused the notion that, in terms of fashion and aesthetics, a decade doesn't find its own identity until the third year. iow, 1982 has overtones of the 70's, 1992 still has overtones of the 80's.

i think the first artist i really adore post-80's is tori amos. here first record was '92, and it still rings out with vestiges of 80's production, big gated verbs on drums and voice, heavy chorusing, stark coldness. in contrast, just two years later, under the pink is really warm and intimate.

it's the digital verb done to distraction, and the over-bright under-bass curve, that makes so much 80's stuff unlistenable for me. groove and swing kinda got lost in there too, came back in the early 90's.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 8th May 2006
  #12
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DirkB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by woods
how much emphasis or imortance or reliance do you guys put on reverb in the mix process? In todays recording/mixing trend.
I's one of those aspects that speparates the men from the boys. Applying reverb is an art and if done correctly, can gell a mix together and increase the space/depth/width tremendously.

Try to get some feel for what mono/stereo does, the amount of predelay and the length of the reverb. To me, these are the parameters that make the most difference to add depth and width.

And yes, read some of Thrills' posts. There IS more reverb used in todays mixes than you might be aware of...

Someday I hope to be with the reverb men...heh .

Good luck,
Dirk
Old 8th May 2006
  #13
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

here's a tip : go through the effort of adjusting the pre delay of your preset to the songs tempo - or rather to an eight / sixteenth ... whatever note length in that tempo. Instead of your reverb eating up whatever you send through it you'll notice it's easier to maintain presence, hence depth of the original source and find the right blend with the reverb.
Old 8th May 2006
  #14
Also experiment with compression on the verb - I'm a big fan of squashing it a little so it dips down a bit during louder passages, while it's allowed to take up a little more space during softer ones.

Not for everything, of course, but it sure can "clean up" the verb. And with plugs (where you can actually set the threshold low enough to have the right effect) it's simple to do.
Old 8th May 2006
  #15
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What is pre delay with respect to reverb?

Woods
Old 8th May 2006
  #16
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Predelay is simply a delay before the reverb. Often it's a parameter of the reverb itself. It goes back to the old practice of using a tape delay to feed an echo chamber or plate.

Sometimes you don't want the reverb to commence immediately. In a real acoustic space, especially a big one, there would be a delay before the reflected sounds reaches you. An artificial reverb is more immediate, which can be good or bad.

Pre-delay means you can use less reverb and still be noticed, and it also is less muddy and cluttering. You can time it to enhance the groove.
Old 8th May 2006
  #17
Here for the gear
 

Just wondering if any of you guys pan the longer verbs a little narrower.
Like for instance keeping the ambient and rooms verbs wide, but panning the plates at
10 and 2? Any of this going on? If not, how DO you guys pan your verbs?

I read something about Dave Pensado panning in each reverb a tiny bit inside hard left and right. Also read something really cool about how Al Schmitt pans, like 5 reverbs (he calls them echoes......awesome...because it's him) Anyway, he pans them so that they each have their own territory from hard left to hard right, like peices of a pie. Not really overlapping, I took it.

Any unique tricks for panning other than these?

-Mike
www.mikeleone.com
Old 8th May 2006
  #18
I add nutmeg to all my reverb then mix it up cause that's how I roll!
Old 8th May 2006
  #19
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mesh boogie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by woods
Thrill's reverb posts.

Will do. Thanks Lucey.

But in general - how much emphasis or imortance or reliance do you guys put on reverb in the mix process? In todays recording/mixing trend.

Woods
i will spend a long time just finding a reverb sound i like. maybe even up to an hour or so just listening to the reverb return, getting just the right sound. i think it definitely seperates the men from the boys, unfortunately i am still a boy in this department. then again, i have only been recording for about 6 years, so time will be on my side, it think.
Old 8th May 2006
  #20
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When mixing, I sometimes I even send my room tracks in to digital room reverb!
Old 8th May 2006
  #21
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stevetgn's Avatar
I'll bring the reverb back through a channel and add a de-eser to it. That way you can use a nice bright clear reverb without the eesss's going on for ever or leaping out of the mix. I also use a different reverb for the vocals and the kit, unless I need a really live sound, like everything was recorded in the same acoustic space.
Old 8th May 2006
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter
When mixing, I sometimes I even send my room tracks in to digital room reverb!
Don't we all?
Old 9th May 2006
  #23
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
Don't we all?
Yes, I like to "room" my room. You too, eh?

I usually do a mono room mic about eight feet back from the kit, either in omni or off-axis figure-of-8 (null to the kit to get max room reflection), and then another omni mic like 30 or 40 feet down a big hallway. That hall mic I just squash to death and use on its own in the mix, usually panning it right up the gut. The closer one I will insert in to a stereo IR using Altiverb. Typically I use the Cello recording studio IR. Then I blend the my room with Cello, thereby making a nice stereo, three dimensional room image to wrap around the kit.

Oh damn, another mixing trick scattered to the wind!
Old 9th May 2006
  #24
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GearHunter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedragon
Just wondering if any of you guys pan the longer verbs a little narrower.
Like for instance keeping the ambient and rooms verbs wide, but panning the plates at
10 and 2? Any of this going on? If not, how DO you guys pan your verbs?

I read something about Dave Pensado panning in each reverb a tiny bit inside hard left and right. Also read something really cool about how Al Schmitt pans, like 5 reverbs (he calls them echoes......awesome...because it's him) Anyway, he pans them so that they each have their own territory from hard left to hard right, like peices of a pie. Not really overlapping, I took it.

Any unique tricks for panning other than these?

-Mike
www.mikeleone.com
I believe plates are naturally less wide stereo than rooms and halls anyway. The nature of the way a plate works makes it's return image somewhere between mono and stereo. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere years ago. If I'm not remembering that right, it's not my fault, it's the Tequila.
Old 9th May 2006
  #25
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Cojo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b i k
i'd say roughly 1982 til, oh, about 1992. i've always espoused the notion that, in terms of fashion and aesthetics, a decade doesn't find its own identity until the third year. iow, 1982 has overtones of the 70's, 1992 still has overtones of the 80's.

i think the first artist i really adore post-80's is tori amos. here first record was '92, and it still rings out with vestiges of 80's production, big gated verbs on drums and voice, heavy chorusing, stark coldness. in contrast, just two years later, under the pink is really warm and intimate.

it's the digital verb done to distraction, and the over-bright under-bass curve, that makes so much 80's stuff unlistenable for me. groove and swing kinda got lost in there too, came back in the early 90's.


gregoire
del ubik
Right on target! And the most typical sound example of a typical 80'ies song would be "Maria Magdalena" by Sandra/M.Cretu! heh

/Cojo
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