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Tonelux/Nicerizer test Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 11th May 2006
  #211
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
The fact that anyone is considering spending any money without trying these boxes themselves based on 3 "thrown together" examples is suspect.
Now that I agree with.

I guess the way that I see it is the sound of the Tonelux was just a little better in this very simple test but for me the Tonelux system is very expandable and would grow into a full console someday so that is worth something.

As I said in an earlier post on this thread I am not buying the whole "bad math" business of digital, but I do like analog gear, comps, EQ etc. and integrating cool analog is just easier and sounds better with a mixing console.

I have been thinking I need to check the Tonelux system out. For now I can build a very simple set up and if it does not sound good here... so be it, it goes back. If it does then I can add more later. The key is that 1) it has to sound good here in my room and 2) I can start small and build up.
Old 11th May 2006
  #212
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Now that I agree with.

I guess the way that I see it is the sound of the Tonelux was just a little better in this very simple test but for me the Tonelux system is very expandable and would grow into a full console someday so that is worth something.

As I said in an earlier post on this thread I am not buying the whole "bad math" business of digital, but I do like analog gear, comps, EQ etc. and integrating cool analog is just easier and sounds better with a mixing console.

I have been thinking I need to check the Tonelux system out. For now I can build a very simple set up and if it does not sound good here... so be it, it goes back. If it does then I can add more later. The key is that 1) it has to sound good here in my room and 2) I can start small and build up.

I think that's great.

Good luck with it.thumbsup
Old 11th May 2006
  #213
Lives for gear
I love this test, food for thought
These kinds of tests make me want a mixer like the old daze but then I come back to what this same moola spent on the tonelux would do if it were spent instead on
Micheal Wageners course and more acoustic tuning of my control room and drum room?
I think before I spent $8500 on a summing box I would try the trident or the midas 16 channel mixer for 3K.
Still, a great time to be a gearslut
daniel
Old 11th May 2006
  #215
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Suspect of?

I VERY intentionally did not see the results of the test (i.e. which files were which). I dropped all three files in Samplitude, closed my eyes and moved the files between tracks for a full minute. Played the tracks back and liked the Tonelux system more, followed by a close 2nd with the N16 and then ITB back in 3rd by a pretty good distance, I would say a $2,500 distance.

To make matters worse for your suspect comment I was on the verge of purchasing an N16, maybe even off of roundbadge so I wanted the N16 to sound better.... It didn't in my book.

Now I know this was not a 100% true double blind test but A was just slightly better in my book. $4,000 better for sonics alone? No but it was better by a hair.
I think that before at least 2-3 gearslutzs with Nicerizer in hands do not try Tonelux we can hardly judge aspect of all sonic differences between them.
I appreciate RB effort to do it, but added ITB file completely ruined my faith that everything was aligned as necessary.
'B' versus 'C' is at all not similar to what I got in my ITB vs Nicerizer 16 auditions. From that perspective A vs B is hardly 100% valid comparison, too.
N-16 adds weight and coloration to OTB mixes I usually do in Mixdream. Eventhough Mixdream summing sounds very clean and similar to ITB (in terms of lack of added colours, frequencies and other pleasant artifacts) OTB mix is different in terms of soundstage and elements of mix. No doubt here.
Nicerizer adds what Mixdream doesn't have.
Tonelux pobably adds more of that or in different manner. Here I wish to be carefull in making any conclusion. Is it better? More pleasing overall? Who knows, time will show.
I see Tonelux as interesting option due to it's modular structure. On the other hands sounds is what counts first.
Actually more colour than N-16/N-8 is definitely not welcome in my case, as I can colour my tracks with outboards to extent that everything would easily turn to mud.
For around 2700 $ lowest street price N-16 offers incredible combination of clean and coloured simple summing, so if Tonelux can offer for similar price just 16 channels of similar (or better) sonical quality, than winning ticket would be clear.
But sometimes for gearslutzs, more options means just more headaches.
Old 11th May 2006
  #216
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funka's Avatar
It would also be interested in comparing those with the forthcoming "tone" from rascal audio...
Old 11th May 2006
  #217
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
For around 2700 $ lowest street price N-16 offers incredible combination of clean and coloured simple summing, so if Tonelux can offer for similar price just 16 channels of similar (or better) sonical quality, than winning ticket would be clear.
A simple 8 channel summing rack with 4 FX2 and one SM2 master would cost 2740.-€. That's what the Tonelux configulizer tells me. This is around as much as a N16 or a N8 costs in Eurpoe + you've got the rackspace and the PSU already.
That's not too bad?
Old 11th May 2006
  #218
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funka's Avatar
Just about price:
Yes but add shipping, insurance, taxes...
It will result in a lot more than buying a phoenix audio product in europe I think...
Old 11th May 2006
  #219
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSweetener
A simple 8 channel summing rack with 4 FX2 and one SM2 master would cost 2740.-€. That's what the Tonelux configulizer tells me. This is around as much as a N16 or a N8 costs in Eurpoe + you've got the rackspace and the PSU already.
That's not too bad?
Yes, that's quite comparable in price, so next step is real world audition.
Old 11th May 2006
  #220
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funka's Avatar
Yes, sound is the main thing anyway..."whatever" the price.
Old 11th May 2006
  #221
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by funka
It would also be interested in comparing those with the forthcoming "tone" from rascal audio...
Other upcoming solutions will be released soon, too.
Manufacturers are more and more inventive, damn it.
Old 11th May 2006
  #222
they know our weak points heh
Old 11th May 2006
  #223
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by funka
Just about price:
Yes but add shipping, insurance, taxes...
It will result in a lot more than buying a phoenix audio product in europe I think...
Yeah, but there are dealers like Golden Age who almost have US prices.
Old 11th May 2006
  #224
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
I've been looking at a practical way to get back into a console type situation for 4 years now..
i've looked at everything from refurbed 80 series Neves/..older SSL..
SSL AWS900.. Trident and every summing box i could get my hands on.

..For one thing,I don't have the room to play the old way..
At home,I work in a small space ..And i want a rig that I can roll around with me to other studios that sounds great..
An all discrete mixer/EQ's/comps,etc with a patchbay..maybe a pullout moving fader panel? ...in a relatively small rack on wheels?thumbsup ..
Sounds good to meheh
Old 11th May 2006
  #225
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
Actually more colour than N-16/N-8 is definitely not welcome in my case, as I can colour my tracks with outboards to extent that everything would easily turn to mud.
For around 2700 $ lowest street price N-16 offers incredible combination of clean and coloured simple summing, so if Tonelux can offer for similar price just 16 channels of similar (or better) sonical quality, than winning ticket would be clear.

Aside from what everybody thinks or Doesn't think about the files...
FWITW ..my experience in person with the TLX/N-16 side by side,was that the TLX was actually a tad less colored than the N-16, but still had the warmth,yet still felt bigger and punchier..
AND more aggresive in an older API'ish way, but to my ears, better.
This is good for my world.

God, i'm sick of trying to put this **** into words,doesn't help that my typing sucks!!!
F*ck it! .. just go and get some demo's people!

Or maybe from now on, i'll try reviewing gear with more smilies :
"These EQ's arethumbsup they make me heh
they add a lot of to the mix,but can be very when you want it
they really dfegad on everythingelse i've tried




Old 11th May 2006
  #226
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Reptil..that console pic was coolthumbsup ..OT, my ass ..bring it back!
Old 11th May 2006
  #227
ok thumbsup
I had only gearslutz to tell anybody about this (the graphic designers in the building just frowned and shrugged )
and another one, a BFE, I did managed to purchase a part of, and I'm working on now
(the same as my avatar, for the slightly dazed slutz)

(slooooowwwwly) heh
the more work I do, the more I long for a practical solution like the Tonelux. When comparing these old monsters, and considering time and cost to make them work again, the tonelux doesn't seem so terribly pricey...

soldering = not mixing
Attached Thumbnails
Tonelux/Nicerizer test-bfe.jpg  

Last edited by Reptil; 11th May 2006 at 12:19 PM..
Old 11th May 2006
  #228
ok try again
(doesn't want to re-load)
Old 11th May 2006
  #229
ahem
try again
Attached Thumbnails
Tonelux/Nicerizer test-siemens_orf_front_small.jpg  

Last edited by Reptil; 11th May 2006 at 12:13 PM..
Old 11th May 2006
  #230
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil
the more work I do, the more I long for a practical solution like the Tonelux. When comparing these old monsters, and considering time and cost to make them work again, the tonelux doesn't seem so terribly pricey...

soldering = not mixing

Amen to that cuz!stike



PS:What the hell IS that thing?
Old 11th May 2006
  #231
these are mixers for remote trucks from the eightties, television-radio was sponsored by the German, Austrian and Swiss and other european goverments. Money was therefore not really a factor. Quality was. The TV and radio institutions had these built by strict guidelines, the "Braunbuch" standard. And all of em are slightly different. the apex of analogue audio just before the Adats heh

The TAB-Telefunken-Maihak-Siemens Sitral is from the same familly but from the sixties and seventies.

The dutch guys I bought a part of the BFE from, now have a beautiful transistor desk in operation. There were two of these made by Ir. Geiling. (who used to work for Neumann) I heard it in operation last monday. clean, crisp elegant sound. (The other one was destroyed by some jojos who didn't really know what they had. So their desk is the last in the world.) Their studio will be awesome. I hope I can persuade them to post some pictures when it is ready. Selected hand wound transformers, dynamics on every channel, brrr. Their desk is really one of the most beautiful I've ever seen and heard in my life.

It gave me courage and hope again to continue my own BFE project. The BFE is a swiss made desk, with a bit sharper eqs but compatible with the Neumann and other "Danner" casssette format stuff. The american stuff is, what I know of it sweeter (Sphere ADM) or more agressive (API). The original complete desk died when it was decommissioned, because the main cable tree was cut without proper labelling. I only needed 16 channels. (16:12:4 with dynamics and M-S)

needless to say, I could have done a lot more mixing work instead of this. Also the studio now is a BIG mess, and I can't record bands, because of the piles of parts. I hope it is worth it in the end.

Go for the Tonelux, I'd say. It will turn into an addiction really fast. That is the thing with modular designs. heh

Last edited by Reptil; 11th May 2006 at 12:53 PM..
Old 11th May 2006
  #232
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil
needless to say, I could have done a lot more mixing work instead of this. Also the studio now is a BIG mess, and I can't record bands, because of the piles of parts. I hope it is worth it in the end.

Dude, its totally worth it! Theres nothing like having something no one else does.


M
Old 11th May 2006
  #233
Quote:
Originally Posted by moogus
Dude, its totally worth it! Theres nothing like having something no one else does.


M
thank you for that!
you are right, but sometimes I don't see the forest from the trees, when looking at a heap of wires for instance. (I know. the solution is: don't look heh)
I'm genuinely curious for what you or others have done to their mixers
to make them better

Last edited by Reptil; 11th May 2006 at 03:56 PM..
Old 11th May 2006
  #234
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil
thank you for that!
you are right, but sometimes I don't see the forest from the trees, when looking at a heap of wires for instance. (I know. the solution is: don't look heh)
I'm genuinely curious for what you or others have done to their mixers
to make them better

Well, it'll be cool to see the thing in action when it's done.
do us a favor and post a thread about it when your donethumbsup
Old 11th May 2006
  #235
Here for the gear
 

bla

hey reptile ,

might as well post some pics indeed.
this desk was from bayern radio/TV and came with mobile truck and all.
the wires reptile was talking about scares most people, very tight,neat but a truckload full of em! lol



don;t think ur safe when u FINALLY reach safe harbor, then there is this to solve hehe



this is how he looks like, 40 channels of pure class A,



front look



am very proud and thank the lords of kobolt every day that i was in the position of purchasing this console, the trafo's used are HAUFE, wich were auctually tested on prodigy-pro forum by somone and it went from 0hz to 200khz without any problems , flat as a pancake..like reptile says in those days it was the reputation of the stations and competition wich made them build these babies no matter the costs...
Old 11th May 2006
  #236
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by annaloog
wich were auctually tested on prodigy-pro forum by somone and it went from 0hz to 200khz without any problems , flat as a pancake..like reptile says in those days it was the reputation of the stations and competition wich made them build these babies no matter the costs...


Wow man what an amazing looking desk! I hope some of those looms are labeled!

Did you mean 20hz to 200khz? No transformer can pass DC (0hz). Id be interested to know what the circuit topology is!


Reptile, I know what you mean about not looking at the wires. My problems is that I build this stuff all day and when I come home I often cant bring myself to touch a soldering iron.
I think any old mixer will need recapping, at least partially. And of course the usual switch and pot cleaning. Then there are the actual mods to either improve functionality or sound, which depends on what you arent quite happy with. Lots of old designs can be improved easily, and there are many that are almost right and with a few simple changes can be amazing. Do you have circuits for your desk? Ive seen inside a few BFE modules and from memory they were transformer balanced, with ICs for everything and a pair of output transistors driving the transformer.


M
Old 11th May 2006
  #237
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSweetener
A simple 8 channel summing rack with 4 FX2 and one SM2 master would cost 2740.-€. That's what the Tonelux configulizer tells me. This is around as much as a N16 or a N8 costs in Eurpoe + you've got the rackspace and the PSU already.
That's not too bad?
The N-16 is 16 channel.

-R
Old 11th May 2006
  #238
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pigpen's Avatar
 

Ok Badge....no secret I have been waiting on the SH summing mixer.....now you make me wanna go ahead and start pulling the trigger on the TL stuff instead!!!!(At least I'd know when I'd get it! )

Gawd I hate being a Gearslut!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 11th May 2006
  #239
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen
Ok Badge....no secret I have been waiting on the SH summing mixer.....now you make me wanna go ahead and start pulling the trigger on the TL stuff instead!!!!(At least I'd know when I'd get it! )

Gawd I hate being a Gearslut!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah ..another big plus..Paul actually has modules,etc in stock ,ready to wire/ assemble and ship within 3 -4 weeks..I can take comfort in knowing I'd get the stuff pretty damn quick..NOT 6-8 months later
Old 11th May 2006
  #240
--Hi Annaloog thanks for posting those pictures-- thumbsup
and welcome to gearslutz gnigni another addiction heh
I'll start another thread when it's time.
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