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Tonelux/Nicerizer test Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 6th June 2006
  #301
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Now the other side of this coin is - how do you charge your clients for your time? Day rate? Hourly rate? Per-project rate? Do you discount it if asked, or is you price your price?
I take a slight loss on every project, but I make up for it with volume.

-R
Old 6th June 2006
  #302
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Phew! Everyone is so touchy this week!!

There are several schools of thought on the pricing issue, and Paul and I, and Dave from Sonic and I, and Mike from Vintage King and I have all gone over it trying to find the happy medium.

-gil
Gil, it's all right.
Couple of years ago I purchased first Brauner KHE for slightly over 5 K (from dealer, brand new), this year nowhere below 8 k (and I'm happy with that).
Same happened with some other top class gears.
I would be happy to see Tonelux raising in prices when I have it in rack
But who are 'early adopters' ?
Those who participate in building name and fame (if successful), so at least some percentage of first customers (or during some period) could be rewarded by lower price. I remember Nicerizer, Germanium, Shadow Hills Compressor among others.
Specially for those potential customers far away from dealers and all nice services some gearslutz talk about.
Buying high-end gears is related to business we do or sometimes just our own pleasure (in case when sonics are good beyond imagination - again KHE or Gordon pres come to mind).
In my case Brauner KHE (I'm only one here who have it and not one but pair) attracts lot of attention being known for what it does (although for much less similar job can be done without any doubt).
Will I get same gratification with adding Tonelux to my studio? I doubt.
I doubt it will improve anything in my sound, working routine or overall appeal (except adding huge flexibility for future add-ons and more spending).
After several years, if established successfully on the market, it can be such factor, but not now and not in my place.
80-100 k for small SSL bring clients immediately, 30-50k for Tonelux dunno.
I still don't know how Tonelux sounds and it will take time before we fully realize it. So, if I buy now, I subconciously want it at privileged price, as I feel that I am part of the whole process that adds value to the brand.
I tried to be honest
Old 6th June 2006
  #303
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
Will I get same gratification with adding Tonelux to my studio? I doubt. I doubt it will improve anything in my sound, working routine or overall appeal (except adding huge flexibility for future add-ons and more spending).
After several years, if established successfully on the market, it can be such factor, but not now and not in my place.
80-100 k for small SSL bring clients immediately, 30-50k for Tonelux dunno.
I still don't know how Tonelux sounds and it will take time before we fully realize it. So, if I buy now, I subconciously want it at privileged price, as I feel that I am part of the whole process that adds value to the brand.
I tried to be honest
This is EXACTLY what I was driving at as well. I am pretty sure it is a good product but it is fairly unknown in the music world right now. My clients are not going to choose me over some other studio because I have a "Tonelux" console. Maybe someday that might be the case but right now I just want something that sounds good and I can expand on.

I just feel like I am getting married to a company at the ground floor and that scares me a bit. What if Paul gets hit by a truck tomorrow? (not that anyone would want that to happen). Can someone still service the product? Will anyone make any new modules? Will the company fold if Paul is not around? Can I even get existing modules if Paul is out of the picture? What if Paul runs out of money as he is building the company and it goes belly up? I am stuck with a product that has no replacement parts or service (think of all the folks stuck with Paris systems).

I think the Tonelux stuff is going to be a hit but there is no guarantee. Because I am putting $3000 on the line for a company that is still in it's infancy I don't think I am going over the line by wanted a "privileged price". I am taking a pretty big risk also right?

I don't want to be attacked for not wanting to pay top dollar for high end gear, that is not the case here. I am just worried about $ like everyone else and I have concerns is all. A few $ off from the dealer would make me feel good about climbing on board as an "early adopter".
Old 6th June 2006
  #304
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
Will I get same gratification with adding Tonelux to my studio? I doubt.
Oh ye of little faith...

Quote:
I doubt it will improve anything in my sound, working routine...
it will definately and immediately improve your sound. Ask any of the "early adopters" here on gearslutz, many of whom have worked on SSLs, Neves, and APIs, you'll get a resounding "yes" from all of them. As for your working routine, the ability to create your own workflow by choosing and organizing your modules to fit the way you work will accomplish that. Plus, should anything fail in the future, you're not out of business - simply pop in a replacement module or op-amp, and you're back to work. You don't lose your entire center section if one component fails.

Quote:
80-100 k for small SSL bring clients immediately, 30-50k for Tonelux dunno.
Fair enough observation. Cutting a new path takes courage, but remember that Paul Wolff has a history and pedigree, it's not like you're going with a totally new, unkown and yet to be proven designer. Paul's gear designs are on more records than I can count. Another thing - the SSL may bring in clients, but in the end their tracks will sound like every other SSL out there. Some consider that a good thing, others...

Quote:
I tried to be honest
Your honesty is appreciated - we all work hard for our money and want to spend it wisely.
Old 6th June 2006
  #305
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
This is EXACTLY what I was driving at as well. I am pretty sure it is a good product but it is fairly unknown in the music world right now. My clients are not going to choose me over some other studio because I have a "Tonelux" console. Maybe someday that might be the case but right now I just want something that sounds good and I can expand on.
It is NOT "fairly unknown" and has been proven many times over. I wasn't born Yesterday. There is a bit of history with me, Duh.
Quote:

I just feel like I am getting married to a company at the ground floor and that scares me a bit. What if Paul gets hit by a truck tomorrow? (not that anyone would want that to happen). Can someone still service the product? Will anyone make any new modules? Will the company fold if Paul is not around? Can I even get existing modules if Paul is out of the picture? What if Paul runs out of money as he is building the company and it goes belly up? I am stuck with a product that has no replacement parts or service (think of all the folks stuck with Paris systems).
What if I hit you with a truck on the way to meeting you? What if a giant tornado hit the empire state building? You can what-if yourself into standing in one place.

Paul isn't going to run out of money. Paul has designed the amplifierd so they will be available as a second source if you hit me in your school bus. Paul has thought of all that, as I have been doing this for 30 years now. I think if you want something stable, then buy something that you think is stable. What just happened to SSL and Neve? They were big and stable. What if the record you record sounds like crap and it hurts my reputation? What if you go out of business and blame Tonelux?
Quote:

I think the Tonelux stuff is going to be a hit but there is no guarantee. Because I am putting $3000 on the line for a company that is still in it's infancy I don't think I am going over the line by wanted a "privileged price". I am taking a pretty big risk also right?
First of all, it already seems to be a hit, as several records have used it and many of the comments are directed at the sound, not only from the CD buyers, but the engineers and artists using it. $3000 is a very small amount to be so worried. We are taking orders for systems that are $30K to $70K from people that I don't even know that are excited as hell about it. In the short time we have been in business, we have shipped over 250 MX2s and more than 125 EQs, 50 racks and 30 PSUs. So far, one PSU failed because it was dropped from a truck, and a few modules have failed, which were returned the next day to the customer. I still want to know what you will do for me if I give you a "dude" price? Ryan got a small break, but he is doing ads, working shows, doing demos, loaning equipment to people, giving interviews, AND making hit records with it. So again, what will I get in return?
Quote:

I don't want to be attacked for not wanting to pay top dollar for high end gear, that is not the case here. I am just worried about $ like everyone else and I have concerns is all. A few $ off from the dealer would make me feel good about climbing on board as an "early adopter".
Then don't attack Tonelux for being so IFFY and on the edge of going away. 99% of my customers know that I have a stable reputation and am not one to rip people off.

That is up to the dealers. Like I said, everyone wants a deal, including the dealers. Show them something and they might show you something. Otherwise, policy is what it is.

Most have recognized the value of this stuff, and can see that the support and comparison to other products is a great deal, and that seems to be good enough for them.
Old 6th June 2006
  #306
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Oh ye of little faith...

it will definately and immediately improve your sound. Ask any of the "early adopters" here on gearslutz, many of whom have worked on SSLs, Neves, and APIs, you'll get a resounding "yes" from all of them.

Cutting a new path takes courage, but remember that Paul Wolff has a history and pedigree, it's not like you're going with a totally new, unkown and yet to be proven designer.
I don't know to what extent IT will definitely and immediately improve your sound. I think that's your responsibility, not the box's. Gyang, in another thread I posted a few files so you can hear for yourself. Having just tried out a Tonelux rack I can say that its build quality and sonic excellence inspires confidence.

To me it makes sense to go with something like Tonelux if you want to use all the hardware inserts and aux sends, which you're paying for with the Tonelux but not with the Nicerizer. If you really want to get into all out analog mixing it's surely a top contender. The eq and preams are awesome as well. (I especially loved the preamps).

OTOH, if you just want some analog summing to open up your sound a little, mix in effect returns perhaps and integrate some outboard gear, but still plan on sticking with an ITB paradigm (volume automation, effect sends, etc), then the Nicerizer is a great way to go. As are, no doubt, many other choices. I think both boxes sound great, and in a level matched comparison I don't think you'll hear a world of difference.

-R
Old 6th June 2006
  #307
Somehow I kind of figured your response was going to be heated. I am not fighting with you Paul, you are the man and I am a nobody... well a nobody that is a customer of yours and I do respect you and your company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
It is NOT "fairly unknown" and has been proven many times over. I wasn't born Yesterday. There is a bit of history with me, Duh.
NOT true. You are Paul Wolff, very well known and respected gear designer BUT not very well known by the average musician that I record anyway. I work at a local / regional level and most of the guys around here don't know you from Adam and don't care. Do I have a Neve this or that, an API something or another or an Avalon and one of them there Newman mics..... etc.

heh

Tonelux is not a word they know about yet and Paul Wolff is just a name with no meaning with my clients. Sorry.


Quote:
What if I hit you with a truck on the way to meeting you? What if a giant tornado hit the empire state building? You can what-if yourself into standing in one place.

Paul isn't going to run out of money. Paul has designed the amplifierd so they will be available as a second source if you hit me in your school bus. Paul has thought of all that, as I have been doing this for 30 years now. I think if you want something stable, then buy something that you think is stable. What just happened to SSL and Neve? They were big and stable. What if the record you record sounds like crap and it hurts my reputation? What if you go out of business and blame Tonelux?
Come on man. I can't have some concerns about purchasing form a new company? Instead of settling my fears you are attacking me (remember me the client?). I am not putting you or your company down so drop the boxing gloves and speak to me like a human not a rival, you are not under attack.

Instead of boxing with me why not say something like "if something happends to me this this and this will take place" or "the units are fairly easy to service, nothing that can't be found off the shelf" etc. If this is the case I would feel better about the product.

Quote:
First of all, it already seems to be a hit, as several records have used it and many of the comments are directed at the sound, not only from the CD buyers, but the engineers and artists using it. $3000 is a very small amount to be so worried.
Let me quote that again, $3000 is a very small amount to be worried about? I think you would have a VERY hard time selling that to 90% of the people on this board. I am willing to bet that at least some of your sales so far have been smaller systems like mine. It sounds like you are saying it's only $3000 so don't bother me with your little order? And that is not supposed to make me worried? I am pretty sure that is not what you are saying, your reputation is too good but it does cause one to give pause doesn't it?

What about if an FX2 goes bad for me? Are you going to put me on the shelf because a $70k client is having a cocktail party that night? I doubt it but remember I don't know you from Adam either.

Quote:
We are taking orders for systems that are $30K to $70K from people that I don't even know that are excited as hell about it. In the short time we have been in business, we have shipped over 250 MX2s and more than 125 EQs, 50 racks and 30 PSUs. So far, one PSU failed because it was dropped from a truck, and a few modules have failed, which were returned the next day to the customer. I still want to know what you will do for me if I give you a "dude" price? Ryan got a small break, but he is doing ads, working shows, doing demos, loaning equipment to people, giving interviews, AND making hit records with it. So again, what will I get in return?
Nothing at all I guess. No big deal.


Quote:
Then don't attack Tonelux for being so IFFY and on the edge of going away. 99% of my customers know that I have a stable reputation and am not one to rip people off.
Exactly where did I say that you were trying to rip people off again? I think I must have had a typo if I implied that.

Quote:
That is up to the dealers. Like I said, everyone wants a deal, including the dealers. Show them something and they might show you something. Otherwise, policy is what it is.

Most have recognized the value of this stuff, and can see that the support and comparison to other products is a great deal, and that seems to be good enough for them.
Okay, thanks Paul, good talking to you.
Old 6th June 2006
  #308
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
Then don't attack Tonelux for being so IFFY and on the edge of going away. 99% of my customers know that I have a stable reputation and am not one to rip people off.

That is up to the dealers. Like I said, everyone wants a deal, including the dealers. Show them something and they might show you something. Otherwise, policy is what it is.
Nobody's questioning anybody's integrity here.

So it sounds like there may actually be some sway in the price, if I read your last statement correctly. It seems that I've heard prices bandied about from your dealers or reps as "list price". Your site also lists the "MSRP", which certainly implies that the real price could be lower.

-R
Old 6th June 2006
  #309
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
NOT true. You are Paul Wolff, very well known and respected gear designer BUT not very well known by the average musician that I record anyway. I work at a local / regional level and most of the guys around here don't know you from Adam and don't care. Do I have a Neve this or that, an API something or another or an Avalon and one of them there Newman mics..... etc.
Quote:
Tonelux is not a word they know about yet and Paul Wolff is just a name with no meaning with my clients. Sorry.
If they know API, they know Paul's designs. For almost 20 years Paul essentially WAS API, so that's the history and credibility associated with the name Paul Wolff.

Quote:
Instead of boxing with me why not say something like "if something happends to me this this and this will take place" or "the units are fairly easy to service, nothing that can't be found off the shelf" etc. If this is the case I would feel better about the product.
If something happens to Paul, plans are in place to continue Tonelux without him. He has documented all of his designs, including future products we haven't announced yet. Paul has kids to put through college, as do I, and we are well aware of our mere mortal status, even if our egos sometimes suggest otherwise.

The Tonelux modules are fairly easy to service, nothing that can't be found off the shelf (well, off our shelf, anyway!). If an op-amp blows, you can simply replace the op-amp - it's socketed. If an entire module blows up, you can pull it and keep working while you await a replacement. Those buying Tonelux console solutions typically purchase a "spares kit" and some extra modules to ensure minimal downtime.

Quote:
Let me quote that again, $3000 is a very small amount to be worried about? I think you would have a VERY hard time selling that to 90% of the people on this board.
I think Paul's point is that $3k worth of Tonelux, should it fail, is not going to break you or your company (you'd pay twice that for a Neumann), so if someone isn['t worried about investing 70k in a Tonelux front end that, should it fail WOULD break the bank, you can spend $3k with confidence.

Quote:
What about if an FX2 goes bad for me? Are you going to put me on the shelf because a $70k client is having a cocktail party that night?
I'll have FX2s on the shelf here, as will your dealer - if one goes south on you, between the dealer and the distributor we'll get you up and running. And then we can throw our own cocktail party... drinks on you, of course! ;-)

Quote:
I doubt it but remember I don't know you from Adam either.
Not to worry - Jules knows him, Sonic Circus and Vintage King know him, all will vouch for him. He's been in the game for over 26 years, I've been doing this since 1982 - between all of us, we've got you covered.

-gil
Old 6th June 2006
  #310
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
If they know API, they know Paul's designs. For almost 20 years Paul essentially WAS API, so that's the history and credibility associated with the name Paul Wolff.
Yes I know that and you know that but a client looking at a web site only knows the name Neve or API... I think you know what I am getting at.

Quote:
If something happens to Paul, plans are in place to continue Tonelux without him. He has documented all of his designs, including future products we haven't announced yet. Paul has kids to put through college, as do I, and we are well aware of our mere mortal status, even if our egos sometimes suggest otherwise.
GREAT news. As I said above some place, I just fear being up a tree like a Pairs user (even if that was for a different reason I think you know where I am coming from).

Quote:
The Tonelux modules are fairly easy to service, nothing that can't be found off the shelf (well, off our shelf, anyway!). If an op-amp blows, you can simply replace the op-amp - it's socketed. If an entire module blows up, you can pull it and keep working while you await a replacement. Those buying Tonelux console solutions typically purchase a "spares kit" and some extra modules to ensure minimal downtime.
I could dream about having spares around, if I have something it is going in a rack man... LOL heh That is still a great way to look at it, if I could do that I would.

Quote:
I think Paul's point is that $3k worth of Tonelux, should it fail, is not going to break you or your company (you'd pay twice that for a Neumann), so if someone isn['t worried about investing 70k in a Tonelux front end that, shouls it fail WOULD break the bank, you can spend $3k with confidence.
A fair point for sure.

Quote:
I'll have FX2s on the shelf here, as will your dealer - if one goes south on you, between the dealer and the distributor we'll get you up and running. And then we can throw our own cocktail party... drinks on you, of course! ;-)

Not to worry - Jules knows him, Sonic Circus and Vintage King know him, all will vouch for him. He's been in the game for over 26 years, I've been doing this since 1982 - between all of us, we've got you covered.

-gil
Thanks Gil!! Very cool. These are the things us little guys worry about. All the gear in my room is just less than $70K so $3000 is a pretty good chunk of change to me, just want to know that someone cares is all. I hope you understand.

And yes drinks at the cocktail party are on me.... well the first round anyway.
Old 6th June 2006
  #311
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
GREAT news. As I said above some place, I just fear being up a tree like a Pairs user (even if that was for a different reason I think you know where I am coming from).
Paris, Focusrite, Spectral, CLM Dynamics, Aardvark - I hear ya loud and clear. Anyone want to buy my black-face ADATs? or my original Tascam 688? - it has 8 tracks, MIDI control, and dBx noise reduction, all on a small, portable form factor (you know, cassettes?)

Quote:
...just want to know that someone cares is all. I hope you understand.
I do understand. And I care. And the check is in the mail.

Quote:
And yes drinks at the cocktail party are on me.... well the first round anyway.
Cool!! 'Cause you always serve the good stuff first - I'll have the Anejo Patron, por favor.

-g
Old 6th June 2006
  #312
Gear Maniac
 
Kalite Marka's Avatar
 

Hey Gil or Michael,
Perhaps this is an ignorant question but… $3000 exactly for which Tonelux configuration?
I presume it is a summing setup.
If so exactly which modules and how many of them (channels)?

I am also in the market for a small mixer mainly for summing and to integrate all the outboard gear that I have.
Have been lurking around Tonelux website and the whole concept seems a bit confusing (IOW I am not so good when it comes to technical side of things).
PM me if you guys don't want to post about prices or configurations... Thanks
Old 6th June 2006
  #313
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Paris, Focusrite, Spectral, CLM Dynamics, Aardvark - I hear ya loud and clear. Anyone want to buy my black-face ADATs? or my original Tascam 688? - it has 8 tracks, MIDI control, and dBx noise reduction, all on a small, portable form factor (you know, cassettes?)
The funny thing is I am more worried about Paris - Aardvark types of things happening. Everyone I knew back then saw the writing on the wall for ADATs, a Tonelux rig is a little different because it is not digital.... well Paris was digital as well but it was a system that should have grown not been killed off by a hard to find part..... anyway we are on the same page.

Quote:
I do understand. And I care. And the check is in the mail.
Funny because my check for my mini Tonelux rig is in the mail as we speak, imagine that...

Quote:
Cool!! 'Cause you always serve the good stuff first - I'll have the Anejo Patron, por favor.

-g
Old 6th June 2006
  #314
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalite Marka
Hey Gil or Michael,
Perhaps this is an ignorant question but… $3000 exactly for which Tonelux configuration?
I presume it is a summing setup.
If so exactly which modules and how many of them (channels)?

I am also in the market for a small mixer mainly for summing and to integrate all the outboard gear that I have.
Have been lurking around Tonelux website and the whole concept seems a bit confusing (IOW I am not so good when it comes to technical side of things).
PM me if you guys don't want to post about prices or configurations... Thanks
The Nicerizer is 16 inputs, and costs a little less than 3k. According to the Tonelux site, using their standard input modules and a summing amp, a 16 channel mixer would cost $9,021 USD. 8 channels would be $5,439. Perhaps there's a way to do it using fx return modules, I don't know. I'm also curious as to where that 3k figure comes from.

Please note, however, that the Tonelux input modules have inserts, volume knobs and 4 aux sends, which the Nicerizer does not.

-R
Old 6th June 2006
  #315
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
The Nicerizer is 16 inputs, and costs a little less than 3k. According to the Tonelux site, using their standard input modules and a summing amp, a 16 channel mixer would cost $9,021 USD. 8 channels would be $5,439. Perhaps there's a way to do it using fx return modules, I don't know.
Using FX2 and FX2+ modules, 8x2 would be $3283, 16x2 is $4570, 32x2 is $8431, MSRP.
Old 7th June 2006
  #316
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
You could not be more wrong. You can buy 8 channels of summing for less than 3K. Then to expand, you don't have to throw anything away, (like the console pictured above) when you want to go expand to 32 channels. You don't need deep pockets, just the desire to make good music.
Saying "less than 3k" is what gives people the impression that there is some give on the prices. Using the fx module option it's actually "more than 3k", as per Gil's post. Is there a cheaper way?

Also, in terms of expandability, if you start with, say, 16 channels of fx modules and then want to expand your system to include inserts and aux sends, like the mx modules have, then what do you do?

-R
Old 7th June 2006
  #317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalite Marka
Hey Gil or Michael,
Perhaps this is an ignorant question but… $3000 exactly for which Tonelux configuration?
I presume it is a summing setup.
If so exactly which modules and how many of them (channels)?

I am also in the market for a small mixer mainly for summing and to integrate all the outboard gear that I have.
Have been lurking around Tonelux website and the whole concept seems a bit confusing (IOW I am not so good when it comes to technical side of things).
PM me if you guys don't want to post about prices or configurations... Thanks
Hi Kalite.

No problem posting prices. Actually the numbers are available on the Tonelux page now (there is a nice little configuration Flash plug in there that you can check out).

The rack and the power supply is $998 so no matter what that is the entry price. Remember as with all things that have multiple rack spaces the more you put into one the more the per channel price comes down.

On top of the rack and the power supply I got a CR2 which is a control room module. Think of this as the center section of a console. The CR2 brings the total up to $1893 + shipping etc. I figure that this is a little less than the price of a Avocet, less bells and whistles (including no D/A) but I did not need all the Avocet does. So I got a very nice (I really really REALLY hope) monitor controller for under 2 g's.

Then you need a summing amp if you want to use any of the FX or mix channel modules. YOu can do this with a pair of FX2+s or with a SM2. I am going with the SM2 because it has inserts and monitor levels as well as stereo matched trim. It also can have an external fader attached if I am reading it correctly. That brings the price to $2742 +.

Lastly you need input modules. These can be an FX2, FX2 + or an MX2. The MX2 is only a mono input but it has aux sends and can be controlled with an external fader, coming up is the ability to use DAW automation so this is a big plus. The FX2+ has a summing amp that can be used as a master 2 bus fader or as a aux master and it has 2 inputs. Lastly is a FX2, a stereo input that can feed the summing amps of the SM2 or the FX2+. I am going with the FX2's (because I am poor). 1 FX2 added to the total brings it up to $3171 +.

This gives me 2 inputs and 2 outputs (not much use other than the SM2 inserts and the tranny.. that is worth something) and a control room monitor (very useful for me right now). To make this rig into anything other than a really nice monitor controller I need to add 7 more FX2's for 16 channels of summing. $6174 total and I have 4 spaces left for other modules. $6200 is a HUGE chunk of change for me, that is why I am really tentative to dive in but I took the plunge today..... gulp.. I am really freaked out right about now.



It is possible to skip the CR2 and the SM2 and get an 8 channel summing system using 2 FX2+'s and 2 FX2's for around $2800 - $2900 and a 16 channel would be around $4500.
Old 7th June 2006
  #318
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
It is possible to skip the CR2 and the SM2 and get an 8 channel summing system using 2 FX2+'s and 2 FX2's for around $2800 - $2900 .
How do you get 8 channels of summing with those 4 modules? That must be what Paul was referring to, but I don't get it.

-R
Old 7th June 2006
  #319
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
How do you get 8 channels of summing with those 4 modules? That must be what Paul was referring to, but I don't get it.

-R
I see where you are getting confused, this is pretty easy (if I have it right).

heh

The FX2's have 2 inputs, 2 faders and 2 pan knobs. The two faders feed the 2 buss but you need a summing amp to bring the output up to line level. The FX2+ includes the same inputs, faders and pans but it also has 1 summing amp so 2 FX2+ modules will give you 4 inputs (2 per card) and a stereo summing buss (1 per card).

8 channels of summing could be done with 2 FX2's (4 inputs, panning and fader trim) and 2 FX2+'s (4 inputs, panning fader trim and a stereo pair of outputs with trannys).

The down side of this config is you don't have the option of controlling the faders with the Shadowmix system and the DAW. Only the MX2 modules will do that and to do aux sends you need more FX2's and FX2+'s. The up side here is you can use the open slots on your VRack to make all this happen later.

As I said in my config there will be 4 extra open slots, I am thinking of using 4 MX2's there because when I automate things in Samplitude I really don't go crazy on fader rides other than vox, bass and guitars. 4 channels of external moterized faders and then the rest of my fader moves can happen in the box if I need to.

Does that help?
Old 7th June 2006
  #320
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
The FX2's have 2 inputs, 2 faders and 2 pan knobs. The two faders feed the 2 buss but you need a summing amp to bring the output up to line level. The FX2+ includes the same inputs, faders and pans but it also has 1 summing amp so 2 FX2+ modules will give you 4 inputs (2 per card) and a stereo summing buss (1 per card).

8 channels of summing could be done with 2 FX2's (4 inputs, panning and fader trim) and 2 FX2+'s (4 inputs, panning fader trim and a stereo pair of outputs with trannys).
I get it, thanks. That's pretty cool actually. Do the Mx modules have any transformers in them?

-R
Old 7th June 2006
  #321
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
I get it, thanks. That's pretty cool actually. Do the Mx modules have any transformers in them?

-R
Sure thing...

As far as the MX2, I believe that the MX2 comes with an upgrade called the MX2D. The D stands for direct out and the direct out has a transformer but I don't think this is on the 2 buss. Pretty sure it is only on the direct out of the MX2D but because you need a FX2+ or a SM1 or 2 for summing and all 3 have a tranny (and the same tranny) you still get the vibe of the transformer on your output.

According to Paul on an earlier post (might even be on this thread) all the outputs sound exactly the same, the FX2+, the SM2 and the SM1 all sound identical.
Old 7th June 2006
  #322
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman
I get it, thanks. That's pretty cool actually. Do the Mx modules have any transformers in them?

-R
Oh and yes it is pretty cool for sure. In an earlier post I said that I am pretty sure the Tonelux system will be a winner in the long run with a very bright future, I still think that is the case here.

Add on top of that you can still add EQ to your system for $950 per channel and preamps for $750 a channel. Also a Daking EQ coming up soon (at least that is the word, it has been a while) and maybe a Distressor (again that was the word some time ago but that might be shelved as far as I know).
Old 7th June 2006
  #323
Lives for gear
 
TinderArts's Avatar
 

Paul will stand behind his gear! No doubt about it.
Old 7th June 2006
  #324
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Also a Daking EQ coming up soon (at least that is the word, it has been a while) and maybe a Distressor (again that was the word some time ago but that might be shelved as far as I know).
Geoff Daking brought his latest rev, nearly-finished EQ to Paris AES.

Empirical Labs is planning up to 3 different modules for Tonelux, Paul and Dave spent some time in Paris hashing out last minute technical details. And we have 2 more companies in the pipeline.

As we are working with small, niche-market manufacturers who are also busy designing their own new products, it takes time for them to put on their Tonelux hats and design something "outside the box" (no pun intended. Okay, I lied - pun intended).

Paul also has more modules on the horizon, and a couple of surprises too. Stay tuned, AES San Francisco is right around the corner...

-g
Old 7th June 2006
  #325
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Geoff Daking brought his latest rev, nearly-finished EQ to Paris AES.

Empirical Labs is planning up to 3 different modules for Tonelux, Paul and Dave spent some time in Paris hashing out last minute technical details. And we have 2 more companies in the pipeline.

As we are working with small, niche-market manufacturers who are also busy designing their own new products, it takes time for them to put on their Tonelux hats and design something "outside the box" (no pun intended. Okay, I lied - pun intended).

Paul also has more modules on the horizon, and a couple of surprises too. Stay tuned, AES San Francisco is right around the corner...

-g
Thanks Gil. So not trying to pin you down or anything, any idea (rough guess) when we will start seeing modules from Dave and Geoff? There has been talk about it for some time now just wondering when we might see something? This year, next year, 3 - 4 months? That kind of thing.

Thanks again.
Old 7th June 2006
  #326
Daking EQ looked almost done, I think it will be ready in August - will call Geoff to get an update.

Empirical Labs - well, it's been 11 years and we've got 3 great products - Dave works at his own pace. He'd rather make somethng great than make something quick.

He's got some new talent workng with him, and a Tonelux module is on the drawing board. I'd like to say we'll see a prototype at AES, but I won't say that because until it is in my hands it isn't real. But they are actively working on it.

Chandler and Tonelux have some incompatibilities in terms of power requirements on his existing EMI products (which, of course, were originally designed to be part of a large console with huge power supplies), so Wade would have to design something special from the ground up. I believe he will at some point, when is a matter of scheduling and priorities and cajoling. We keep providing the cajoling, beyond that it's up to him. It's all good, we will have Chandler and EMI sharing space at our booth in San Francisco, where Paul will no doubt cajole and kanoodle Wade until he says "Uncle".

SO rest assured that there will be a nice selection of 3rd party modules for the Tonelux format from a handful of invited manufacturers that we are fond of,but like Orson Welles would say "we will serve no module before its time"

-g
Old 7th June 2006
  #327
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Daking EQ looked almost done, I think it will be ready in August - will call Geoff to get an update.

Empirical Labs - well, it's been 11 years and we've got 3 great products - Dave works at his own pace. He'd rather make somethng great than make something quick.

He's got some new talent workng with him, and a Tonelux module is on the drawing board. I'd like to say we'll see a prototype at AES, but I won't say that because until it is in my hands it isn't real. But they are actively working on it.

Chandler and Tonelux have some incompatibilities in terms of power requirements on his existing EMI products (which, of course, were originally designed to be part of a large console with huge power supplies), so Wade would have to design something special from the ground up. I believe he will at some point, when is a matter of scheduling and priorities and cajoling. We keep providing the cajoling, beyond that it's up to him. It's all good, we will have Chandler and EMI sharing space at our booth in San Francisco, where Paul will no doubt cajole and kanoodle Wade until he says "Uncle".

SO rest assured that there will be a nice selection of 3rd party modules for the Tonelux format from a handful of invited manufacturers that we are fond of,but like Orson Welles would say "we will serve no module before its time"

-g
Thanks Gil!!

So it sounds like Paull has some cool stuff in the works as well. Shooting for next year maybe? I know you all are really busy so it might be a while just wondering what to save up for....

heh
Old 7th June 2006
  #328
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
I know you all are really busy so it might be a while just wondering what to save up for....
Start saving.

Paul is extremely prolific. I expect some new product at AES San Francisco in October, and more at Winter NAMM in Anaheim.

Just yesterday, we made arrangements to take on another 300 Square Feet of booth space to accomodate a surprise announcement, which will impact both the AES and NAMM shows. it's something that hasn't been done before at AES, and I am very excited about it.

Paul and I are actually having fun again in the pro audio businees - it feels like "the old days" all over again. He is being super-responsive to new product ideas and modifications, very customer-driven at this point. The response we've gotten from customers who have taken delivery of Tonelux products has been overwhelmingly positive. Paul is on the right path, so Wave is clearing it for him.

We have two new product specialists hitting the ground this Summer, and between them, me, and our key dealers we will be doing demos and clinics and shootouts and SPARS chapter meetings and all that good stuff. "Road Trip 2006" is underway...

Next stop - TapeOpCon in Tucson. The demo rig that RKrizman used to create the files he posted will be shuffled off to TapeOp in my luggage (yup - it's that portable) so if any of y'all want to hear it, come out to Tape Op Con.

Those not planning on attending, simply e-mail me if you're interested in getting a in-studio demo this Summer, and we'll add your facility to our itinerary.

Maybe I should call it "Putting Our Money Where Our Mouth Is Tour" or "The Proof is in the Pudding Tour" - I know many of you have been waiting to hear the mic pres, EQs, and mix modules - now we're ready to show them to you. Take us up on it.

Gil "It ain't bragging if it's the Truth" Griffith
www.wavedistribution.com
Old 7th June 2006
  #329
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave
Paul and I are actually having fun again in the pro audio businees - it feels like "the old days" all over again. He is being super-responsive to new product ideas and modifications, very customer-driven at this point.
if i may make a suggestion, recall would be a biggy.
Old 7th June 2006
  #330
Quote:
Originally Posted by raal
if i may make a suggestion, recall would be a biggy.
We have fader automation recall, and the upcoming RP1 mic pre is capable of it - what else do you want recall on, and how much of a premium is it worth to you?

-g
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