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Tonelux/Nicerizer test Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 4th June 2006
  #271
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midnightsun's Avatar
 

The Whole Meal Deal vs modular

Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm
at that point wouldn't it just make sense to buy a console?
I would not consider a older console for reasons Petemin points out and for the following reasons-
-- I ultimately want analog automation and that would be very expensive with a fully outfitted premium console.
--I want to pick and chose and add to my collection of preamps and EQ. The fact that the Tonelux preamps and EQs fit in the Vracks is frosting on the cake.
--Service issues: since I live thousands of miles from anyone who would repair a console, if I have a problem with a Tonelux component I can ship it out for service in a well padded shoe box.
Old 4th June 2006
  #272
Plus, we will have several EQs available, with the other after market modules...
Old 4th June 2006
  #273
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
thanks for the post


So im starting to really wrap my head around the concept of the modular console and it seems a setup like yours would allow you to be flexible on the front and back ends.
if you are using it on the front end , are you using your outboard pre's going into the mx2's or just direct into your daw etc...
I'm gonna read this entire thread now to gather more info.....
You can configure any way you wantthumbsup
Having a few tonelux pre's in the rig is pretty much a no brainer.
the EQ's f*cking rock!
the coolest thing is you can have a great sounding mixing/tracking rig all in one rack on wheels ...
...try pulling that off with a 25 plus year old API 1604...
or in Pete Min's case an old Harrison!
Old 4th June 2006
  #274
It's 1965 all over again... Build it any way you want it.
Old 4th June 2006
  #275
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jindrich's Avatar
 

just some numbers..

a 16ch Tonelux summer with some fx returns and 16 standard faders (not automated) cost around 17k

for 15,5k you can buy a NEW 16ch in-line Neotek mixing desk, including 16 pres, 16eqs,
full metering on every channel, 6 auxes/ch, the look and feel of a real console with decent sized knobs...etc.

edit: removed the pic as someone got pissed
Old 5th June 2006
  #276
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich
just some numbers..

a 16ch Tonelux summer with some fx returns and 16 standard faders (not automated) cost around 17k

for 15,5k you can buy a NEW 16ch in-line Neotek mixing desk, including 16 pres, 16eqs,
full metering on every channel, 6 auxes/ch, the look and feel of a real console with decent sized knobs...etc.



Yep,thats one way to go..but it ain't expandable..16 channels ,done deal..
and no upgrade to flying fader's,etc ..not a huge fan of the Neotek pre's and I'd much rather track and mix with the TLX EQs'..
With a very forward thinking philosophy: 3rd party modules to come...
.. along with a very portable travel friendly mixer / patchbay setup.. all in one easy to move rolling rack with pullout moving faders to boot!
..i don't want to flight case and old console..

..Yes it can get expensive,but I'm a firm believer of "You get what you pay for"
and the Tonelux stuff is sonically/build wise up there with any of the other high end console makers imo.

Last edited by RoundBadge; 5th June 2006 at 12:42 AM.. Reason: because I can
Old 5th June 2006
  #277
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jindrich's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge
Yep,thats one way to go..but it ain't expandable..16 channels ,done deal..
and no upgrade to flying fader's,etc ..not a huge fan of the Neotek pre's and I'd much rather track and mix with the TLX EQs'..
With a very forward thinking philosophy: 3rd party modules to come...
.. along with a very portable travel friendly mixer / patchbay setup.. all in one easy to move rolling rack with pullout moving faders to boot!
..i don't want to flight case and old console..

..Yes it can get expensive,but I'm a firm believer of "You get what you pay for"
and the Tonelux stuff is sonically/build wise up there with any of the other high end console makers imo.
i'd say you CAN expand the neotek, buy a frame and then as many/few chs as you want. Sure you can as well put in the fader automation of choice.
Regarding the EQ... for 17k you do NOT get a single one with the TLX (in contrast to the neotek), so you could add them as additional modules to the neotek as well

i havent heard a neotek, neither a tonelux, just thinking out loud. And pointing out that when you start adding... it can end up being more expensive than an SSL AWS900 (and guess which one i'd rather pick)
Old 5th June 2006
  #278
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Bottomline of this thread:

Tonelux is not for those without steep pockets. I'm tired of cats crying about how expensive sh-t is (this comment isn't directed at anyone person, so spare me the drama). (2) channels of 1073 in a rack is damn near $8,500.00. Yet people happily pay the admission ticket because it gives them that upper tier sound. When you put that in perspective, it makes the Tonelux look extremely reasonable. What, maybe 30k or so for a really top notch Tonlux rig? I know cats paying 40k for BCM10s - which lack tons of feature + expandability.
Old 5th June 2006
  #279
Quote:
Originally Posted by GL Respect Due
Bottomline of this thread:

Tonelux is not for those without steep pockets. I'm tired of cats crying about how expensive sh-t is (this comment isn't directed at anyone person, so spare me the drama). (2) channels of 1073 in a rack is damn near $8,500.00. Yet people happily pay the admission ticket because it gives them that upper tier sound. When you put that in perspective, it makes the Tonelux look extremely reasonable. What, maybe 30k or so for a really top notch Tonlux rig? I know cats paying 40k for BCM10s - which lack tons of feature + expandability.
You could not be more wrong. You can buy 8 channels of summing for less than 3K. Then to expand, you don't have to throw anything away, (like the console pictured above) when you want to go expand to 32 channels. You don't need deep pockets, just the desire to make good music.
Old 5th June 2006
  #280
And, actually, the bottom line with this thread is this:

100% of everyone picked the out of the box mix for specific reasons over the in the box mix for specific reasons.

That is the bottom line.

If it is going to turn into a hi-jacking then it's time has been served well. It's too bad these threads can't be locked so they can be viewed, but locked when it turns into a ****fest.
Old 5th June 2006
  #281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
And, actually, the bottom line with this thread is this:

100% of everyone picked the out of the box mix for specific reasons over the in the box mix for specific reasons.

That is the bottom line.

If it is going to turn into a hi-jacking then it's time has been served well. It's too bad these threads can't be locked so they can be viewed, but locked when it turns into a ****fest.
As a soon to be Tonelux owner due mainly to this thread I would like to make one addition to your statement Paul....

Yes most picked the Tonelux out of the pack here but the ITB mix was clearly labeled as such introducing some bias into the testing. For my part I tested these files pretty blind but I can't say the same thing for others. I know what I heard / hear with the test files. I don't know that others did not make their decision with their eyes not their ears so ITB vs. OTB is still a matter of personal taste IMHO.

If I have any complaint with the Tonlux stuff (sorry Paul not trying to take shots at you or your company) it is the inflexible pricing scheme. I know there is overhead and you could have just jacked the price up and then come down to what you are selling it for now but everyone likes to think they got a deal on their purchase. Even knowing that I just want to feel special like everyone else does I still am hesitant to purchase something at full retail, something about that just feels..... foreign and wrong (maybe not the right word) to me.

I have $60,000 worth of top quality recording gear (not much by most peoples standards I know) and not one of these high end units did I pay full price for. While I am sure the Tonelux system will live up to and maybe even exceed my expectations I don't think it is so "special" that I should pay full retail when I didn't for my Coles or Royer microphones or my Great River preamps or my Apogee converters etc.

Not giving your dealers any latitude to move on price kind of makes the customer (in this case me) feel a little less important. And I am not whining or complaining I just think this is human nature, everyone wants to feel like "I am getting a good deal" and a "good deal" is more than just purchasing a good product.

In the end I am going to get a vrack and some other goodies so I guess you got me already but I have never been this hesitant to make a big purchase before and I think it might be a subconscious fear of just being a $ sign to a company perhaps. If this is the case (and this is the first time I have really thought this through) that is because no one will give me any deal to make me feel better about my purchase.

Again not complaining just calling it like I see it.

Old 5th June 2006
  #282
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Tonelux:

Your preaching to choir brother, and picking apart the wrong person. I was supporting your pricing. Like RoundBadge said, "You get what you pay for".
Old 5th June 2006
  #283
Quote:
Originally Posted by GL Respect Due
Tonelux:

Your preaching to choir brother, and picking apart the wrong person. I was supporting your pricing. Like RoundBadge said, "You get what you pay for".
I understand that. I was only referring to the "deep pockets" part, which was not correct. The pricing is set up the way it is for two reasons:

1 I set the margins tight and kept the quality up. Everything is calculated to the edge. What you get when you buy it is help from me personally, which just about any other company has a middle man to plan and resolve issues. Not that I am trying to make myself into some big****, but I do know this industry and enjoy getting people pointed in the right direction. The dealers make more that I do.

2 I told the dealers that this was an opportunity to make a little money and that I would not tolerate pissing on each other for discounts. There is no street price. It's all up front and stated. I can't legally do anything else to stabliize the price except for make everyone sell at list. It grinds me when someone calls one dealer, gets all the planning, wiring ideas, time spent, personalization and effort, only to have the muck muck then go to another cheap ass and get a discount. It won't happen. Don't say that it doesn't happen often. When API introduced the new A2D, it was a great unit at a very fair price. One dealer announced even before it was released that they would "promise that we will be heavily discounting it". Right off the bat, the bottom falls out and the dealers that invest the time with a customer have to deal with that kind of short sighted selling of a product that would still be a good deal at list.
Old 5th June 2006
  #284
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
I understand that. I was only referring to the "deep pockets" part, which was not correct. The pricing is set up the way it is for two reasons:

1 I set the margins tight and kept the quality up. Everything is calculated to the edge. What you get when you buy it is help from me personally, which just about any other company has a middle man to plan and resolve issues. Not that I am trying to make myself into some big****, but I do know this industry and enjoy getting people pointed in the right direction. The dealers make more that I do.

2 I told the dealers that this was an opportunity to make a little money and that I would not tolerate pissing on each other for discounts. There is no street price. It's all up front and stated. I can't legally do anything else to stabliize the price except for make everyone sell at list. It grinds me when someone calls one dealer, gets all the planning, wiring ideas, time spent, personalization and effort, only to have the muck muck then go to another cheap ass and get a discount. It won't happen. Don't say that it doesn't happen often. When API introduced the new A2D, it was a great unit at a very fair price. One dealer announced even before it was released that they would "promise that we will be heavily discounting it". Right off the bat, the bottom falls out and the dealers that invest the time with a customer have to deal with that kind of short sighted selling of a product that would still be a good deal at list.
Hi Paul.

Again not dissing you or your company here okay? And I am not complaining I am just talking about human nature here, if I feel this way I am pretty sure there are others out there who feel the same. Maybe not everyone but a few perhaps.

The problem with the above is that your loyalty should be to the customer first right? It sounds like you are being more loyal to your dealers and the customer should just eat it, if they want your product they should pay top dollar.

As a customer I just want to know that a company I deal with looks at me more than just a $ sign. When I am paying $3000 for a piece of gear I would hope that someone would be willing to work with me and earn my trust. I have been dealing with two of your dealers on my rig and in the end they both pretty much said if you want the product deal with the pricing if not then well too bad. That is not a direct quote but it is the feeling I get.

As someone who does not have thousands of $ to toss around that makes me a little uneasy is all. $3000 might not be much to some other folks but to me that is a pretty big deal and I want the people I am dealing with to think of it as important as well. The dealers I have been talking to make it sound like $3000 is nothing, a baby system, that is pretty frustrating.

I am not talking about giving away anything, I am happy to pay good money for a good product but I would hope and expect to get $200 off of a $3000 purchase. I just see that as good faith that you want me to purchase the product and that I am not "lucky" to have the opportunity to own something with company X's name on it.

Much respect.....
Old 5th June 2006
  #285
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Hi Paul.

Again not dissing you or your company here okay? And I am not complaining I am just talking about human nature here, if I feel this way I am pretty sure there are others out there who feel the same. Maybe not everyone but a few perhaps.

The problem with the above is that your loyalty should be to the customer first right? It sounds like you are being more loyal to your dealers and the customer should just eat it, if they want your product they should pay top dollar.
My loyalty is with the customer. If you knew me you would get that. To imply that it isn't is pure ignorance on your part. I do this for the love of this industry, and my reward is when a recording gets played on the radio that used it and someone in a store says that the new record sounds killer.

I want the FEW dealers that we have to make something because if they don;t there will be none, which is what happens when you cornhole your dealer into giving everything away because you are a "dude".

Not to be a dick, but what will you do for me as a favor for me giving you a discount? Let's say I worked just as hard on your system as I did for the last guy. Will you mow my lawn? I don't think anyone needs a discount just because they bought something. As I said before, I am not charging that much to begin with.

The few dealers that we have are building systems. This is not a box that you buy and plug in to the wall. There is some level of integration required that the end user is not always up to speed on. Are you supposed to get that for free? When the guy comes to your house to hook it all up, do you want that for free too? When you call up Vintage King and tell them what you are looking at and he spends 3 days configuring a system, with patchbays, cabinets, wiring and setup, is that guys time worth anything? Sounds like the answer is no.

System integration costs money. The whole Tonelux range is also below market on the pricing compared to other discrete products in it's caliber. It also sounds great, has a 5 year warranty and has a lot of engineering in it to make it compact and still sound so good.

I would prefer not to beat this into the ground any more, or I will have to raise the prices to cover the time I am spending doing this instead of designing something. Show some respect and change the subject.
Old 5th June 2006
  #286
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich
i'd say you CAN expand the neotek, buy a frame and then as many/few chs as you want. Sure you can as well put in the fader automation of choice.
Regarding the EQ... for 17k you do NOT get a single one with the TLX (in contrast to the neotek), so you could add them as additional modules to the neotek as well

i havent heard a neotek, neither a tonelux, just thinking out loud. And pointing out that when you start adding... it can end up being more expensive than an SSL AWS900 (and guess which one i'd rather pick)
This is not about money[this thread was posted in the "High end" forum for a reason]
..it's about the quality ..
and I've used the SSL AWS ..very cool.. but not really my cuppa ...and expansion/ adding more dynamics /channels is gonna be expensive too.. whatever..

So i've already choosen too,BASED ON ACTUALLY USING /HEARING THE STUFF!..

If you wanna start another thread about cost vs. quality based on stuff you've never actually heard....go for it.
Old 5th June 2006
  #287
Thank you, I couldn't have said it better.

and by the way jindrich, that Neotek advertisement is way too big for the screen, so it makes the page require a scroll bar. Why not lose the pic or make it smaller. Losing it would be better, then put it into a thread called "pictures of mixers". It's really annoying.
Old 5th June 2006
  #288
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I suppose a better wording on my part would be something like, "The pricing of Tonelux products are extremely reasonable for what your getting, at the same time, it is high end gear, so don't expect for Tonelux to just give it away". Thats more or less what I was trying to say.
Old 5th June 2006
  #289
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superburtm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by petemin
"My quandry is more along the lines of don't you end up paying more in the end building the digital/hybrid studio piece by piece opposed to buying a console outright."

it depends on what console and what price range you talking about. you might pay more in the beginning, but you'll probably have less maintenance if you buy something new. after having owned a 7 ft, 700lb console, i like going into sessions knowing 98% that there aren't going to be mysterious noises coming out of my console that i have to trouble shoot in front of my clients (i own a tonelux console). nothing sucks more for me, and more importantly for the bands/musicians than having to stop a session for technical reasons.

you might save more money in the short term depending on the condition of the console, but in the end maintenance will empty your wallet not only in tech fees, but also with business if your studio has a reputation of having bad maintenance.

just my experience and opinion. good luck.
good points
Old 5th June 2006
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
My loyalty is with the customer. If you knew me you would get that. To imply that it isn't is pure ignorance on your part. I do this for the love of this industry, and my reward is when a recording gets played on the radio that used it and someone in a store says that the new record sounds killer.

I want the FEW dealers that we have to make something because if they don;t there will be none, which is what happens when you cornhole your dealer into giving everything away because you are a "dude".

Not to be a dick, but what will you do for me as a favor for me giving you a discount? Let's say I worked just as hard on your system as I did for the last guy. Will you mow my lawn? I don't think anyone needs a discount just because they bought something. As I said before, I am not charging that much to begin with.

The few dealers that we have are building systems. This is not a box that you buy and plug in to the wall. There is some level of integration required that the end user is not always up to speed on. Are you supposed to get that for free? When the guy comes to your house to hook it all up, do you want that for free too? When you call up Vintage King and tell them what you are looking at and he spends 3 days configuring a system, with patchbays, cabinets, wiring and setup, is that guys time worth anything? Sounds like the answer is no.

System integration costs money. The whole Tonelux range is also below market on the pricing compared to other discrete products in it's caliber. It also sounds great, has a 5 year warranty and has a lot of engineering in it to make it compact and still sound so good.

I would prefer not to beat this into the ground any more, or I will have to raise the prices to cover the time I am spending doing this instead of designing something. Show some respect and change the subject.

Paul. You just are talking about me I believe. I was on the phone with Jeff at Vintage King for 3 days, helping me configure my wiring, desk, and patchbays. Can't wait to get my console, how's it coming along anway?heh You know the 32X8X2 order that you're probably putting good work into. Jeff is coming to my house/studio, to install it with me. He did a great job of helping me address some of my concerns and requests that I had, and overall I think the setup I decided on is fukking awesome. To me, what I paid for my new console, was worth the money just to know that I'm supporting honest people who work hard for something they back. Isn't that what business is all about moralistically speaking? Creating, supplying and supporting an amazing product, that none of you are anywhere near embarassed to put your name on. To all the people bitching about the price, if it's not worth it to you then don't buy it. I too got pretty much everything else in my studio at a discount, mostly dealer cost or below that since I used to work at Guitar Center (dfegad nothing to brag about). The Tonelux is the most expensive thing I have ever purchased in my studio, geeez in my life!. No doubt, but with it's flexibily and organization it's going to bring to my studio, I think that is what Im paying for. I'm sure it's "aggressive and punchy" and all the fun stuff, but it's going to make my job easier which = more fun and way more productive. I'm not rich or anything, it's just about what your priority is...


If anyone is interested... it's going to be quite the console. I basically purchased all of the outboard preamps of my choice as my front end. But what I'm thinking to kind of gel the sound together better, I'm going to have the outputs of all my mic pre's going line in of each MX2 module on my console going directly out into the converters. That way I will add inserts to every channel for when I want to strap a 550A and the Red 3 to my kick, or whatever I'm doing, plus every channel from my different mic pre's will be colored by the tonelux, making it all a little more cohesive. So basically it's got custom channels depending on what sound I'm going for I might want to use my Germaniums, or whichever pre I choose and then go into the board and then directly out of the Tonelux MX2 module into the ad16x. I hear a lot of people talking about using a variety of pre's but I am in the school of thought, that every channel being the same results in this really awesome cohesiveness. But I'm also a slut at heart and enjoy having an assortment of stuff, but I think using the tonelux the way I'm desribing will making everything gel more. Sorry for rambling.
Old 5th June 2006
  #291
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GYang's Avatar
In long run prices will not be dictated by Tonelux, but by the market.
Several other clever guys most likely are working on design of their modular summing/mixing/routing platforms that really seems as future-proof concept, which although quite obvious weren't so nicely implemented before Tonelux.
Are modules expensive or affordable?
Who knows, it really depends on what we compare.
On Tonelux nicely designed internet site, we still don't get all practical information to figure out how to choose/integrate the whole system.
Integration costs, but is it such rocket science?
Than some need to spend 3 days with dealers to do it (WTF)
After one week of correspondence with wavedistribution I still don't have an offer, as we couldn't easily clarify specs that fits my need (for us abroad it's real pain in ass to purchase from such small companies).

In this thread, I feel too much product promotion, indirect or gentle, but still promotion.
IMO Tonelux offers excellent concept, but what counts on GS is sound and most of us warmly welcome sharing more real experiences from users.
Old 5th June 2006
  #292
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jindrich's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
...and by the way jindrich, that Neotek advertisement is way too big for the screen, so it makes the page require a scroll bar. Why not lose the pic or make it smaller. Losing it would be better, then put it into a thread called "pictures of mixers". It's really annoying.
Paul, i've nothing to do with that board or any other for the matter. I'm just looking for a mixer myself and am considering all options.

Btw, if you still think i'm pitching other products, i'm the guy who did (and posted here) the Aux Expansion system for YOUR modules, for which i didnt even get a simple "thank you" from you.

the pic has been removed.
Old 5th June 2006
  #293
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich

the pic has been removed.
pitta, nice pic.
Old 5th June 2006
  #294
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux
My loyalty is with the customer. If you knew me you would get that. To imply that it isn't is pure ignorance on your part. I do this for the love of this industry, and my reward is when a recording gets played on the radio that used it and someone in a store says that the new record sounds killer.

I want the FEW dealers that we have to make something because if they don;t there will be none, which is what happens when you cornhole your dealer into giving everything away because you are a "dude".

Not to be a dick, but what will you do for me as a favor for me giving you a discount? Let's say I worked just as hard on your system as I did for the last guy. Will you mow my lawn? I don't think anyone needs a discount just because they bought something. As I said before, I am not charging that much to begin with.

The few dealers that we have are building systems. This is not a box that you buy and plug in to the wall. There is some level of integration required that the end user is not always up to speed on. Are you supposed to get that for free? When the guy comes to your house to hook it all up, do you want that for free too? When you call up Vintage King and tell them what you are looking at and he spends 3 days configuring a system, with patchbays, cabinets, wiring and setup, is that guys time worth anything? Sounds like the answer is no.

System integration costs money. The whole Tonelux range is also below market on the pricing compared to other discrete products in it's caliber. It also sounds great, has a 5 year warranty and has a lot of engineering in it to make it compact and still sound so good.

I would prefer not to beat this into the ground any more, or I will have to raise the prices to cover the time I am spending doing this instead of designing something. Show some respect and change the subject.
I guess you missed my point...... too bad. I don't believe I said I wanted the dealer to give everything away I just want to know that I am not a piece of meat for some corporation.

Okay I will not bother voicing a concern I have about the product, thanks for the reply.....
Old 5th June 2006
  #295
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heyman's Avatar
"On Tonelux nicely designed internet site, we still don't get all practical information to figure out how to choose/integrate the whole system.
Integration costs, but is it such rocket science?"

I agree.. Paul, some manufacturers post pics of common system setups. This would definetly help and cut down on the questions asked of you and your dealers. Maybe a FAQ as well?

Thanks again Paul...!!
Old 5th June 2006
  #296
OK OK, your're all on my plus list.

jindrich- I did thank you, I also said that it was a good idea, and of the many suggestions I get, it was on the top for me to look very hard at. The only thing that bothered me about the pic was the size, as it threw off all the posts on the page. I usually make my pics 300 pixels wide at 72 DPI.

not_so_new- I did get your point, I was just trying to explain why we don't start out with discounts. The comment about being loyal to my customers was not misunderstood. The dealers can always discount their wiring labor or installation if they want to give someone a bit.

arrogantbastard-, actually, I made that part up about the 3 days, but good points.

GL Respect Due- Now you are my hero.

heyman- We are adding as many as we can, we want people to call the dealers, as in reality, no one here expects everyone to be a console designer, which is why we have so few dealers. Calling the dealer is part of the step and to be a dealer, they need to be able to do this right, which includes the refurb of classic consoles, etc.

By the way, we just hired Jeff Goodman to be our product specialist in the California area, and will be doing similar in the larger markets, which will also cover the associated areas surrounding them. We realize the complicated nature of the Tonelux systems when they get bigger, and our goal is to make what ever someone dreams about. Believe me, I am on the phone with the dealers 2 times a day answering questions for them so they can help you.

And Pete Min will always be one my favorite Tonelux Owners.
Old 5th June 2006
  #297
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superburtm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arrogantbastard
Paul. You just are talking about me I believe. I was on the phone with Jeff at Vintage King for 3 days, helping me configure my wiring, desk, and patchbays. Can't wait to get my console, how's it coming along anway?heh You know the 32X8X2 order that you're probably putting good work into. Jeff is coming to my house/studio, to install it with me. He did a great job of helping me address some of my concerns and requests that I had, and overall I think the setup I decided on is fukking awesome. To me, what I paid for my new console, was worth the money just to know that I'm supporting honest people who work hard for something they back. Isn't that what business is all about moralistically speaking? Creating, supplying and supporting an amazing product, that none of you are anywhere near embarassed to put your name on. To all the people bitching about the price, if it's not worth it to you then don't buy it. I too got pretty much everything else in my studio at a discount, mostly dealer cost or below that since I used to work at Guitar Center (dfegad nothing to brag about). The Tonelux is the most expensive thing I have ever purchased in my studio, geeez in my life!. No doubt, but with it's flexibily and organization it's going to bring to my studio, I think that is what Im paying for. I'm sure it's "aggressive and punchy" and all the fun stuff, but it's going to make my job easier which = more fun and way more productive. I'm not rich or anything, it's just about what your priority is...


If anyone is intested... it's going to be quite the console. I basically purchased all of the outboard preamps of my choice as my front end. But what I'm thinking to kind of gel the sound together better, I'm going to have the outputs of all my mic pre's going line in of each MX2 module on my console going directly out into the converters. That way I will add inserts to every channel for when I want to strap a 550A and the Red 3 to my kick, or whatever I'm doing, plus every channel from my different mic pre's will be colored by the tonelux, making it all a little more cohesive. So basically it's got custom channels depending on what sound I'm going for I might want to use my Germaniums, or whichever pre I choose and then go into the board and then directly out of the Tonelux MX2 module into the ad16x. I hear a lot of people talking about using a variety of pre's but I am in the school of thought, that every channel being the same results in the really awesome cohesiveness. But I'm also a slut at heart and enjoy having an assortment of stuff, but I think using the tonelux the way I'm desribing will making everything gel more. Sorry for rambling.
Killer Dude I got to see your studioheh
Old 5th June 2006
  #298
Phew! Everyone is so touchy this week!!

There are several schools of thought on the pricing issue, and Paul and I, and Dave from Sonic and I, and Mike from Vintage King and I have all gone over it trying to find the happy medium.

We could easily raise the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price by, say, 20%, and have the dealer give you-the-customer 15 to 20% off so you feel like you got a break in the price. This is mostly psychological, line charging $9.99 for something rather than $10. I pay $3.19 7/8 for gasoline now - why not just call it $3.20 a gallon? Psychology, proven over and over again in retail sales.

However, when I went to shop the new Mustang I wanted, the dealer told me I had to pay over retail becuae they were "in demand". Same with the Dodge Viper when it came out. Heck, try buying a Toyota Prius right now at a discount - not going to happen. However, I can get you a GREAT deal on a Hummer.

I shopped for a KHE Brauner microphone - guess what? No deals - in fact, there are only a few left apparently, and they are not cheap. If I want a used Neumann, I can find them on eBay for between $5000 and $9000. Huh? They're OLD, and USED... why do I have to pay so much when I can still buy a brand-mew SM58 (which is good enough for Bono to use as a vocal mic) for $98?

You can get cell phones for free all day long with the purchase of a 2 year contract. That is, unless you want a Treo 700p - then it's $399. $699 without a contract. And when was the last time any of us got a discount on an Apple Mac or an iPod?

Now the other side of this coin is - how do you charge your clients for your time? Day rate? Hourly rate? Per-project rate? Do you discount it if asked, or is you price your price?

I think perhaps it comes down to semantics. For right now, we are building all the product we can and we are stiull 3 to 4 weeks back-ordered. Every customer who has received our products are busy making music (and money) with them.

As GYang says (and your TX $ quote is in your inbox), ultimately the market will decide. In the interim, the price is what it is, and the only way to offer a discount is for us to artificially inflate the MSRP so that the price actually charged becomes the "street price". We esteem your intelligence over semantics, however, whcih is why we haven't done it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heyman
I agree.. Paul, some manufacturers post pics of common system setups.
There are common system setups posted here http://www.tonelux.com/config.html

-gil
Old 6th June 2006
  #299
Lives for gear
 
midnightsun's Avatar
 

Get out and Vote

You thought your vote for the last senator, congressman, or president mattered! You don't agree with Walmart's practices and expect your vote at the ballot box makes a difference(?). The only vote we have that really matters is where we spend our money. Every cent we spend is an endorsement. I am not trying to sound "high and mighty." I am just saying that no matter how modest my nickel, I like to feel the reward of not only getting a good product but the satisfaction of casting my vote where it really counts. Tonelux and the people behind it are the type of business that I want to see flourish in this world.

I hope that Paul is as loyal to his dealers as he is to his customers. This type of boutique product just won't survive without the A+ dealers. Paul did not baby sit me through the tedious process of configuring a system-- Sonic Circus did. I spent many, many hours on the phone. I have personallty done business with all of the dealers that Paul has picked to work through and they are stellar as you already know.

A person should rest assured that the customer who picks up a system two months from now will not be able to boast to us that he paid thousands of dollars less than we paid. We don't have to be nervous about wondering if we did our diligence to get the most value from our dollar. I think that I paid a fair price for my setup. I think that the service that a dealer gives me is more valuable than saving a few dollars anyway
Old 6th June 2006
  #300
hey paul,

thanks......your stuff rocks....and as important, your tech support rocks.
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