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Anybody still buying consoles? Consoles
Old 27th October 2011
  #1
Deleted 6ccb844
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Anybody still buying consoles?

Just interested, there are shed loads of awesome interfaces out there and tons of pre-amps and outboard compressors to match that doesn't really cost a fraction of a new desk.

Looking really at high end ones like SSL, NEVE, API, TRIDENT etc.
Old 27th October 2011
  #2
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nothing really replaces the workflow of a proper console, and many people still need that workflow , so yes a console is still needed - and when you add up all the parts of a 32/48 channel desk, then you really aren't saving very much by going all outboard
Old 27th October 2011
  #3
Still can't live without it while tracking, but feel myself ok without it while mixing.
Old 27th October 2011
  #4
Gear Addict
 

Studio 270 just bought an API Legacy Plus with Vision moving faders automation for the Montreal market.

Yes, you are right, you do not need this to record, mix or produce music in 2011 (so many plug-ins with indabox softwares, serie 500s compressors and pre-amps, etc available...)... but try it one day at a pro studio in your area...you will understand why they are different in tone, headroom, 3D wide on a mix.

Just my 2 cents...
Old 27th October 2011
  #5
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axisdreamer's Avatar
Consoles are like cars to me,I wouldnt buy a new one but I would buy a kick ass used one anyday!!

Deals are out there for used consoles if you look!!Good time to buy.

I paid more for my Hammer eq then I paid for my 24 ch console and they both rock!!! I did just happen to get a good deal on the console some years ago but good deals are out there.

If your looking for high end for lower money, check out Sphere,Quad eight,Electrodyne.
Old 27th October 2011
  #6
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matskull's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Lab View Post
Studio 270 just bought an API Legacy Plus with Vision moving faders automation for the Montreal market.
Do you work there? Seems like a nice console to have! I'd love to have automation on my console.
Old 27th October 2011
  #7
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JonMiller's Avatar
I just bought my first console.

It solved loads of problems I was having before.

32 channels off In and Out, 32 great sounding EQ's

6 Aux Sends Per Channel (so I can now achieve great headphone mixes)

And my mixes sound better, they just sound "more right" The EQ's are more interesting sounding then plugin EQ

I still primarily track through my outboard pre-amps while monitoring through the desk as we all as mixing through the desk and printing back into pro-tools.
Old 27th October 2011
  #8
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dysenterygary's Avatar
 

A console is not necessary as everyone has said, but it definitely can be useful. Not to mention look badass for your clients when they walk in. Also even if you start out w/only a 16 or 24 channel mixer you're still way ahead of the game just by having all those preamps available. And if you're rich enough to have 16-24 kick ass preamps already then odds are good you have a console anyway
Old 27th October 2011
  #9
Gear Addict
 

I bought a zedr16, and whether or not it's considered high-end, I feel that it really adds to my workflow and overall quality of a mix. Clients hear what I can do by multing a vocal track in the daw, sending it to 4 faders on the board, inserting different flavors of compression in each, balancing to taste with tactile functionality.
Old 27th October 2011
  #10
Yes they are for 2 reasons, one is they sound better than DAW mixing, the other is they are really cheap!
Old 27th October 2011
  #11
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toneguru's Avatar
The used market for consoles is intriguing and unique.

Lets say I bought a brand new SSL top line console in 2001 and then sold it today. The depreciation is truly mind blowing. Like 95% off.

This is a golden era for anyone that wants to buy a good analog console on the cheap. In fact, if you are one of the rare breed still tracking to tape you do not need the digital interfacing in your console so you can pick up some dream deals.

Tracking to tape and going to the mastering house without ever looking at a computer to record sounds like a great way to go.

How bout api 1608 to 2" 16 trk? Sweet!
Old 27th October 2011
  #12
Harmless Wacko
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by toneguru View Post
Lets say I bought a brand new SSL top line console in 2001 and then sold it today. The depreciation is truly mind blowing. Like 95% off.
If yer buying a $565,000 2001 SSL 9056J used, and it's costing you FIVE percent of it's new sticker price... That's $28,250.

Either:

1.) The desk is destroyed. And I mean DESTROYED.

2.) The owner is an absolutely desperate idiot(happens).

10% of new cost for a great condition late J series?

Yer still getting a great deal.

NOBODY is selling SSL K series for that kinda loot as far as I can tell. And those started being marketed a whopping ONE YEAR later(2002) than the "last generation" J's yer talking about.

There are a LOT of VERY old SSL's(and other brands) out there which are HAMMERED beyond belief, and what yer REALLY buying is a gigantic BOAT ANCHOR.

Something that is going to cost an IMMENSE amount of money to get fully operational... if ever.

I'm all for the used LFAC market. Never been a better time to be a buyer, but:

Caveat Emptor.

SM.
Old 27th October 2011
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
Do you work there? Seems like a nice console to have! I'd love to have automation on my console.
I run the sister production company that uses the API at the 270 on mixes.
Moving automated faders on a large frame console is the way to go to have fun working. You don't watch a screen...you listen and make the move with your fingers with your eyes closed...

Coffee is on me if you want to visit the place.
Old 27th October 2011
  #14
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We're looking to replace our current console for something bigger and better, but I'm holding out for a deal in the mean time...

In regards to consoles:
1.) We run tape (mostly tracking but occasionally mixing too) and a console is essential for this task
2.) "channel strip" plugins are not a replacement for bringing up tracks individually on a real fader/channel/console. Even if the console is less than desirable, it still imparts a unified identity to the mix as a whole. This is helpful when stuff is tracked with various pres at several places.
3.) We use PT on the Tape send and returns just like a multitrack machine. It really baffles me when young guys (I'm one too) freelance at our spot and ask "where Pro Tools comes up" while standing over a 24X16X2 console. Why anyone sums in the box to two faders or a 2trk return when they have a console is beyond me.
Old 27th October 2011
  #15
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post pro's Avatar
 

Absolutely!

We purchased a 24 channel Neve Genesys with 1073 mic pres on every channel. And while there have been a few bumps along the way with Neve, I have had no regrets replacing all of our boutique mic pres, although I still miss my Shadow Hills Equinox. :-(

My work flow is great, tracking and mixing is beautiful. Everyday I feel better and better going back to more and more hardware. Tangible and REAL value.

Any doubts? Start reading the latest round of Avid/Digidesign BS. Haven't upgraded our HD rigs since version 8 and I won't.

But I will be shopping for some new sexy compressors with the $$$ I saved from getting off the Digi merry go round. LOL!

BTW, my console sounds better than ANY computer. heh

Matt @ Post Pro
Old 27th October 2011
  #16
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cowboycoalminer's Avatar
5500 bucks, an old Ghost with the Creation Audio mod yields you basically an SSL 4000 Gary. It's amazing what you can do with just a little coin these days. I LOVE mine.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 27th October 2011
  #17
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erikdrink's Avatar
I have owned some but right now I have ended up with the Tube-Tech SSA2B
Old 27th October 2011
  #18
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matskull's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Lab View Post
I run the sister production company that uses the API at the 270 on mixes.
Moving automated faders on a large frame console is the way to go to have fun working. You don't watch a screen...you listen and make the move with your fingers with your eyes closed...

Coffee is on me if you want to visit the place.
I don't watch the screen either, but I've got to move everything real time during the mixdown. It usually takes me a couple of try before I've got a good one. It's still a lot of fun and I enjoy that workflow a lot more than itb!
Old 28th October 2011
  #19
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DirkB's Avatar
 

The more I keep researching options for my currently build new studio, I realize that especially the simple and latency free workflow is what pulls me to an anolgue desk. Coupled to 24channels of AD/DA is all I would need...

You can do similar things with some of the DAW controllers, but if you're both tracking and mixing, it still feels like a compromise to me.

Regads,
Dirk
Old 28th October 2011
  #20
I would definitely buy an SSL (AWS 948 or Duality 24) if I had the money.

I assume I'm not the only one who would like to make the jump from ITB mixing to OTB with all analogue gear.
Old 28th October 2011
  #21
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Alex Breaux's Avatar
 

If I didn't have my Amek with GML, I would not even try and compete with other studios. Plus in my eyes, it would take the fun out of it. :D
Old 28th October 2011
  #22
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unit7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by toneguru View Post
This is a golden era for anyone that wants to buy a good analog console on the cheap.
Totally true. Got my used Harrison Series 12 installed almost on the day three yrs ago. Got it for about 15-20% of the price new. That's probably 3 times the price on the used market, but I got it customized the way I wanted it directly from Harrison incl a week of installation, and a 1 year warranty and support. I smile everyday I come to my studio with a mix waiting.
Old 28th October 2011
  #23
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Now I have another opinion on this, I had an SSL 4K and couldn't afford to keep it going. So I replaced it with a MH ULN8, some GR, API and other pre's I have 8 of them which cost me around 4K, also the Pre's on my MH.

The whole lot including DAW and computer / Compressors (ITB and OTB) cost me less than 12K, I don't really believe it has made me struggle because I don't have a desk.

I won't deny I have to work on it a little harder, but it's all part of the fun.

I have noticed unless what you are using is absolute crap, you can get good results from it.. Half of the time I'm not included in the recording sessions, just mixing only and I can't turn round to them and say you have to re-record everything through my desk.

It seems every time I'm ready to write off my hybrid setup and go back to a console, I learn something new which when I compare to my older mixes is in a similar ball park....

Please don't pull up the old ITB vs. OTB debate, from a workflow position and sound position I think I am relatively covered.
Old 28th October 2011
  #24
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crosscutred's Avatar
It wouldn't feel like a studio without a console, everything sounds better through the desk.

It wasn't expensive in the scheme of things either, £10,000 (about 100% of it's original price in 1988) for 40 great pres and eqs.... a bargain! and it came with all the other useful stuff that consoles do so well: auxes, groups, meters, flexible monitoring controls, amazing sounding summing, talkback, m&m patchbay, all transformer balanced and designed to work together and its really great to lean on....

It has also meant that the need to have expensive latency free headphone monitoring from the DAW is redundant so I have saved lots of cash there.

I also use tape quite often which you need a console for....

It just makes so much sense to me.
Old 28th October 2011
  #25
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unit7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
But surely I'll miss the total recall.
It's very hard for us Series 12 (or the Euphonix CS3000) owners to resist quotes like theseheh 72 analog channels with total recall (instant) + full automation of every parameter - comp, gate, eq, pan, aux, pre/post fader settings...everything!
Old 28th October 2011
  #26
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
I'm going also back to a mixer (I wouldn't call the Xdesk and Xpanda a console), but merely because of the sound. I don't record bands, just single instruments or voice: The main goal is an analoge mix. But surely I'll miss the total recall. On the other hand that just means I have to get the mix done right the first time heh
Here is what I don't get, what is that "sound" and why can you not achieve it with an interface? Is it because we don't really know how to use it correctly? I'm not doubting people's skill here, but the high end interface premise is still in it's infancy compared to the years of console use. But even if you were using a digital console like an SSL plugged into PT, your not really getting anything different to an interface with some outboard pre's / EQ. Which I have with an interface!

I agree printing to tape is a cool method, but seems unnecessary. As I say I have to work harder to get my desired results, dirty it up and soften it out a bit but it's easily done once you know how.

I just get the feeling that the two is a different methodology, workflow, everything is different from each other and you have to make the best out of what you have.

With the spec's some of these interfaces are now chucking out, especially with the upcoming 32-Bit Cirrus based interfaces.. I'm sorry if I'm missing something but I am struggling to see a benefit.
Old 28th October 2011
  #27
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unit7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Please don't pull up the old ITB vs. OTB debate
hehhehheh
Old 28th October 2011
  #28
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erikdrink's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit7 View Post
hehhehheh
Old 28th October 2011
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit7 View Post
It's very hard for us Series 12 (or the Euphonix CS3000) owners to resist quotes like theseheh 72 analog channels with total recall (instant) + full automation of every parameter - comp, gate, eq, pan, aux, pre/post fader settings...everything!
In my price range there is no total recall. Maybe I could afford a small console, if I'd sell all my outboard.
Old 28th October 2011
  #30
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crosscutred's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
In my price range there is no total recall. Maybe I could afford a small console, if I'd sell all my outboard.
I don't have recall, I find my clients quite enjoy the excitement of the mix being a "performance"

It's all about how you sell it.

If recall is required I just mix ITB, it gives me a headache and I find I just sit in one position if I'm working ITB (the console make me get up and stretch for buttons and hunt around for wires and funky sounding boxes at the back of cupboards etc) , but if that's what the client wants.....

I like rehearsing the moves and running off the mix getting the "diy automation" just right.
It's just more fun for me to use a console and that's why I got into music in the first place..... if I wanted to be rich I wouldn't be on gearslutz....
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