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Neumann pv76
Old 21st October 2011
  #1
Lives for gear
Neumann pv76

anyone know the history of Neumann PV76 mic pres?
someone said they may be actually telefunkens v76 with
just a Neumann label? any truth to this?
but they inside look totoally different
if not a v76 what telefunken model would be the closest? if any

thanks
Old 21st October 2011
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
anyone know the history of Neumann PV76 mic pres?
someone said they may be actually telefunkens v76 with
just a Neumann label? any truth to this?
but they inside look totoally different
if not a v76 what telefunken model would be the closest? if any

thanks

Nah these are not V76's at all. Early discrete transistor, where as the V76 is tube.

Pretty sure they are just plain old Neumanns. They are pretty freaking cool though. The later models are way more open sounding, whereas these hit harder.

Here is a dude in Va:
The Gear Box - Neumann PV76

If you can get em' cheap, grab them.

john
Old 8th November 2011
  #3
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
Nah these are not V76's at all. Early discrete transistor, where as the V76 is tube.

Pretty sure they are just plain old Neumanns. They are pretty freaking cool though. The later models are way more open sounding, whereas these hit harder.

Here is a dude in Va:
The Gear Box - Neumann PV76

If you can get em' cheap, grab them.

john

Thanks

so Neumann designed/built these?
Old 8th November 2011
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
Thanks

so Neumann designed/built these?
Apparently yeah, at least as far as I know.

I mean, I know there was tons of OEM work going on for the govt broadcast stuff, but I'm pretty certain these were built by Neumann, and not by somebody else with a Neumann logo. Of course the transformers are probably Haufe, as is a ton of gear from that era. Or maybe Pikatron.

Neumann was building all kinds of consoles, record cutting lathes / systems etc. though, as you already know.

Only anybody that was there though, will know exactly what was outsourced and what was done entirely in their factory.

So, what does designed and biult by Neumann really mean?

And does it really matter if it sounds like what you need?

The schems are at the Kubarth site I think, and they read Neumann FWIW.

Sorry, wish I knew more. I'm just a dude on the east coast of the usa, but have some experience using these.

Maybe see if TAB Funkenwerk has any more info, and will give it to you.

Hope it helped some.
john
Old 8th November 2011
  #5
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
Apparently yeah, at least as far as I know.

I mean, I know there was tons of OEM work going on for the govt broadcast stuff, but I'm pretty certain these were built by Neumann, and not by somebody else with a Neumann logo. Of course the transformers are probably Haufe, as is a ton of gear from that era. Or maybe Pikatron.

Neumann was building all kinds of consoles, record cutting lathes / systems etc. though, as you already know.

Only anybody that was there though, will know exactly what was outsourced and what was done entirely in their factory.

So, what does designed and biult by Neumann really mean?

And does it really matter if it sounds like what you need?

The schems are at the Kubarth site I think, and they read Neumann FWIW.

Sorry, wish I knew more. I'm just a dude on the east coast of the usa, but have some experience using these.

Maybe see if TAB Funkenwerk has any more info, and will give it to you.

Hope it helped some.
john

thanks, the only reason I was curious about the OEM factor is maybe there is another company that used the same guts but I can pickup for cheap!


thanks again
Old 8th November 2011
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
thanks, the only reason I was curious about the OEM factor is maybe there is another company that used the same guts but I can pickup for cheap!


thanks again

Gotcha.

john
Old 8th November 2011
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

These things SOAR on electric guitars (and in general I guess...)! A guy I used to work with had a pair. He sold them. I didn't have the cash at the time unfortunately....bloody sweet tones emanating from those things! Very cool.
Old 17th September 2013
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
Rythm'BackStudio's Avatar
 

Amazing preamp.

One of the only preamps I have heard that sounds "larger" than Neve 10-series.
Old 17th September 2013
  #9
Gear Addict
 
AwTAC's Avatar
 

PV76 is a fine, fine amplifier. The haufe transformers in these guys are incredible. Designed from a really really different perspective than anything in england at the time imo.
Old 17th September 2013
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Rythm'BackStudio's Avatar
 

Interesting.

How do you identify them as being Haufe?
Old 17th September 2013
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Rythm'BackStudio's Avatar
 

Here is what Jakob from Gyraf wrote about the BV trafo's on the groupdiy-forum (I hope Jakob is OK, with me posting this):

"BV is short for Bau-Vorschrift - building regulation or Recipe. Was probably part of the mythic BraunBuch. Idea was standardisation, interchangability, and thereby quality assurance of parts for German radio use. For transformers, it specifies EXACTLY how you build it, including what exact materials to use.

Never found the info though - but I once talked to some people at Technical Museum Berlin that mentioned that they had (in a warehouse somewhere) the complete AEG technical documentation that they inherited some years ago. I didn't have the time to further investigate - maybe it's a job for our (GroupDiy) Berlin branch?

Jakob E."


So, Haufe?.. I know of the Haufe bv8, but are these really also Haufe. I am not an expert at all, please enlighten me.
Old 18th September 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythm'BackStudio View Post
Here is what Jakob from Gyraf wrote about the BV trafo's on the groupdiy-forum (I hope Jakob is OK, with me posting this):

"BV is short for Bau-Vorschrift - building regulation or Recipe. Was probably part of the mythic BraunBuch. Idea was standardisation, interchangability, and thereby quality assurance of parts for German radio use. For transformers, it specifies EXACTLY how you build it, including what exact materials to use.

Never found the info though - but I once talked to some people at Technical Museum Berlin that mentioned that they had (in a warehouse somewhere) the complete AEG technical documentation that they inherited some years ago. I didn't have the time to further investigate - maybe it's a job for our (GroupDiy) Berlin branch?

Jakob E."


So, Haufe?.. I know of the Haufe bv8, but are these really also Haufe. I am not an expert at all, please enlighten me.
Haufe is just a brand and theres tons of different models used throughout the years

Neumann, siemens, wsw, telefunken albidwerk, they all used them as they were readily available
Old 28th August 2016
  #13
Mro
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIDBILL View Post
Pv76 was used on this vocal:

great recording!!! what was the rest of the vocal chain?
Old 28th August 2016
  #14
Lives for gear
 
jmikeperkins's Avatar
Neumann invested a lot of time and money trying to build mixing boards and the modules that go in them in the 1970's. They lost money in this venture and stopped making mixing boards and modules in the 80's (not sure of exact date they stopped). However, they made great stuff and the modules in the boards conformed to German broadcast standards hence the "V76" name meaning it had 76 decibels of gain and was one of several replacements for the TAB made tube V76. The PV76 was Neumann made. Most things branded Telefunken were not made by Telefunken but were made by someone else, kind of like the way Sears uses the "Craftsmen" name for appliances made by various companies. Telefunken would sell you an entire turn key studio package, so everything they sold you said Telefunken even if they did not make it. The best known examples of this are the Telefunken 251 mic made by AKG and the Telefunken branded U47 and U67 mics made by Neumann. You also see a lot of mic pres branded Telefunken that were made by TAB. I have a rack of V376 mic pres from WDR German radio and some say TAB and some Telefunken but they are all identical inside in every way. Telefunken did made tubes themselves and some other products, but most things branded Telefunken were made by someone else.

The "76" designation refers to a German broadcast standard for a mic pre with 76 decibels of gain that was intended to be a substitute for the tube TAB made V76. It's main competitors were the Siemens made V276 and the TAB made V376 (both of these are incredible). All of the "76" modules except the TAB made V76 were solid state. All of the EARLY, 1970's made, V76 solid state German broadcast modules like the V276, V376, and Neumann made V476 (and PV76) were top shelf discrete solid state mic pres on the same sonic level as the best of the Neve products or anything else ever made. I have to say I have not personally used the PV76 as it is somewhat rare, but I have yet to find any early Neumann made mic pre or eq module that was anything less than great. Although Neumann lost money and closed their module and mixing board operation, they made great stuff and spared no expense. Although most German broadcast modules are worth checking out, they stopped being discrete in the 70's - 80's using opamps and then integrated circuits. The transformers also changed. Early modules tend to have square Haufe transformers and later modules had round transformers by Haufe and Pinkatron. If someone offered me a racked PV76 pre at a decent price, I would buy it.
Old 29th August 2016
  #15
Mro
Gear Head
 

Early modules tend to have square Haufe transformers and later modules had round transformers by Haufe and Pinkatron. If someone offered me a racked PV76 pre at a decent price, I would buy it.[/QUOTE]

The shape of the transformers has nothing to do with their quality nor 'sound'. E/I core material and lamination does. Haufe always used nickelmetal for the core. In their latter products tonographie apparatebau (TAB) used also Pikatron trafos which added even more 'colour' to the sound.
Neumann in the next generation of their products made their own transformers combined with Haufe trannys on the input ( check v472-2 or v 476 for example).
The numeration of Tab modules can be confusing though. It didn't went chronologically over time. V376, v676 and v676a preamps are from the same era (late 60's - early 70's) and are very similar to each other. All discrete, class A preamps.
Tab v376a is not. Uses IC's in the circuit and has Pikatron trafos. It share more resemblance to v676b or c by ANT. Similar story with v672 and v672/2.
The most interesting thing is that they all (v376, v676 and latter) used tantalum capacitors in the audio path ( so as neve 1073 or studer 169) which is by modern standards something to avoid. I wonder how many neve enthusiasts know that about 1073
Another thing is if you analise Tab, WSW and Siemens comps and pres schematics and neve germanium, silicone pres and diodge bridge compressors schematics you may start to wonder how much of the resemblance is a coincidence? Especially if you consider that neve made their **** about ten years latter
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