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Flea 12 versus Bock 251 ?? Condenser Microphones
Old 5th October 2011
  #1
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Flea 12 versus Bock 251 ??

How would the high end compare on these two mics. I tried a Bock 151 and loved it. I assume the high end on the Bock 251 would be close. Is the Flea 12 as sweet on the high end?
Comments?
Old 6th October 2011
  #2
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Any Flea 12 users out there? Comments?
Old 6th October 2011
  #3
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arasandvolodkas's Avatar
 

I have the FLEA 12, it kicks ass... I haven't been able to put it through it's paces, right now it's being lent to a friend, I could ask him to chime in. When I did have it at my place, it was THE BEST piano mic I ever used, (wish I had a pair!) it's also the best ambient mic I have. for vocals it's awesome, I have a shoot out compared to a vintage AKG c12, and compared to my mics as well on gearslutz... not sure if you've seen it. Not the best comparison as we didn't have time to get the mics close together but you get the point

here are the shootouts:

3 47's, 2 c12's

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-...oyer-kiwi.html
Old 6th October 2011
  #4
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I loved it on the elec guitar and seems to be a great room mic. How about for vocals? The Soundelux/Bock 251 is a great vocal mic - has a significant color which is great for vocals. Is this mic a little bit more clinical version of the Bock 251? Hard to say?
THANKS.
Old 6th October 2011
  #5
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arasandvolodkas's Avatar
 

Yes, I'm sorry it would be hard for me to say, I don't know much about 251's. I only used it on a vocal for 1 song I've recorded, and that was a demo, to get a particular "bright" vocal sound.
If you want PM me your email addy and I can send you the demo I recorded with the FLEA 12 on the vocal.

I was a little curious about the differences myself, I found this:

The AKG C 12 and the Telefunken ELA M 250, M 251
Old 8th October 2011
  #6
Gear Addict
I've been using the bock 251 for a few months now, it's a very nice mic. I gotta say though it doesn't knock me over though. My studio partner built a c12 style mic and honestly it made me feel sad about the bock. I'm in the market for a pair of c12 style mics and the flea 12's have cought my attention. Any us dealers feel free to PM me a price on a pair. I'd like to demo first.

I'd also like to hear some thoughts on the differences of the flea 12 and bock 251 as well.
Old 8th October 2011
  #7
Gear Addict
Jdg
Old 9th October 2011
  #8
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Paul - what is Jdg?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulOcchialini View Post
Jdg
Old 9th October 2011
  #9
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3 View Post
Paul - what is Jdg?
Lol, that was a pocket post.
Old 9th October 2011
  #10
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That is funny. (I had to look up "pocket post"!)

Best,
AB

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulOcchialini View Post
Lol, that was a pocket post.
Old 11th October 2011
  #11
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Ha, we call it butt dialing.

-R
Old 18th April 2012
  #12
any further intentional comments?

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Old 18th April 2012
  #13
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Well I have a pair of Flea 12s now and love them for all sorts of things. The only Bock I could compare them to is the 151, which I guess was sort of the down market version of the 251, since discontinued (0r improved on by a different model). Anyhow, to my ears they are not similar at all. The Bock had that high end "hashiness" (a description, not a criticism) with a lot of air but somewhat on the surface. The Flea 12 has a very smooth and natural high end, lacks the midrange thrust of their (or anybody's) 47, and is very creamy and buttery sounding. You can crank the high eq with no trace of harshness or distortion. Very interesting mic, which I've used to great effect on B3, grand piano, drum overheads and female and background vocals. It does not have the "grab" of a 47, which enables it to sit around the outside of more midrange forward tracks, adding to the three dimensions.

I know I'm beating this silly song to death, but it's recorded with the Flea 47 on LV and the 12's on most everything else. Listen and crank it up, and notice how the 12's surround and embrace the main event.

THIS BROKEN HEART.mov - YouTube

I've got 12 new tunes coming out of the production hopper in the next month or so, so I'll be able to post some fresher examples if anyone is interested.

-R
Old 23rd April 2012
  #14
Thanks R

I have a Flea 47 as well as a Bock 241.
I guess I'll have to hear flea c12 at some point.
I do love the 241 I wouldn't have thought of hashiness for describing it, perhaps different then the 151
The 241 is very different in its two modes rich ear candy to me but it's all in the subtle relative details that we trade in here.
The Flea 47 is so perfect .
I like your description of the flea 12 though.
Old 23rd April 2012
  #15
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
Thanks R

I wouldn't have thought of hashiness for describing it, perhaps different then the 151
The 241 is very different in its two modes rich ear candy to me but it's all in the subtle relative details that we trade in here.
The Flea 47 is so perfect .
I like your description of the flea 12 though.
Yeah, "hashiness" is sort of a made up word, and not really a criticism, but a description of the type of "sshhh" sounding air you get with that mic, which I find characteristic of Bock mics and Wunders as well, to an extent. It seems like a modern quality and one I don't associate with the true vintage mics, but can be desirable nonetheless. And I'm not talking about that high end poke in the ear you get from the cheaper condenser knockoffs.

Whether good or bad, the Flea 12 has none of that.

-R
Old 23rd April 2012
  #16
r
thanks for an eloquent distinction

its on my list to listen to your recording.

in these mic discussions im always wondering what pre people are using?
im using a dw fearn vt 2 and also some vp312.

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Old 29th April 2012
  #17
Yeah nice track rkrizman.
I have a Flea 12 on the way, love the Flea 47 and curious to compare the Flea 12 to my Bock 241.
Old 29th April 2012
  #18
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
Yeah nice track rkrizman.
I have a Flea 12 on the way, love the Flea 47 and curious to compare the Flea 12 to my Bock 241.
cool let us know how they compare.
I've already had some quality time w/ the Bock 251 and liked it on drum overhead..had it side by side w/ an Elam and it was in the same CK12 ballpark yet cleaner less mid forward/compressed more bottom/more extension on the hi's ..both sounded cool.
After hearing Ricks recording [which sounds great]the Flea12 sounds very intriguing.
Old 29th April 2012
  #19
7+1
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Back in Feb, we went up to Sean O"Keefe's new place and brought the Flea12 and the flea47 to compare..

Doug at Gravity brought his Bock 151 which i believe is the pre version to the 241? anyway... we spent the night shooting out the mics...

Pat Sansone from Wilco brought his M49 to compare to sean's m149 and there was a 67 in there as well.. we did some fun tests...

neumann u48 with the flea47... the c12 with a flea12 and the bock...so on so on...

What i can remember from the room after the shoot out was everyone felt very good with everything.. All of the mics were really great... really really great..

The m49 won for smooth quite vocals... but if i can remember, the 67 won for heavier vocals... god its been a few months and i cant seem to remember super details.. maybe Doug or Sean will chime in..

What i do remember is Doug's 151 being very excelent. I liked it a bit better than the flea12 on vocals... the original c12 had something strange going on with it so i didnt really focus too much on comparing the c12 with the flea... ive heard many healthy c12s and i have been using the fela12 steady now for 6 months... very very very close IMHO.

Here are some photos Aras took..

Great night.. and really great Guys!
Attached Thumbnails
Flea 12 versus Bock 251 ??-c12.jpg   Flea 12 versus Bock 251 ??-m49s.jpg   Flea 12 versus Bock 251 ??-sean-pat.jpg   Flea 12 versus Bock 251 ??-dsc_0470.jpg  
Old 30th April 2012
  #20
Thanks for that cool......
be a little cooler if you remembered the super details but...:p

just curious what was the bit better about the 151?

I love how the 241 sits in a mix, but i prefer the low pass setting on some male vocals, which i guess brings up an obvious point, it so depends what your going for......

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Old 30th April 2012
  #21
7+1
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7+1's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=mahasandi;7833440]
just curious what was the bit better about the 151?


Between the flea12 and the bock 151? The bock seemed to have a bit more body on the voice.. and griped a bit more..

both are superb mics but i felt for that voice which was a darker thinner style with a lot of vloume.. translated better with the Bock..
Old 30th April 2012
  #22
Thanks Brother got it.
yeah im curious to compare.

The bock definitley has a cool focus or grip in a mix.The top end on my 241 in flat mode is very tizzy eshhy while still conveying some delicacy but like Rick said the highs seem on top of the sound ....maybe thats part of the grip ....
dunno
of course depending on source..always.
Old 5th May 2012
  #23
Well I only have a few hours with the Flea 12 so ill report back after a week or two to give a more nuanced feel.
The Flea 12 has the ct12 tim cambells which nails the ck12 sound.
i used to have a 414 eb with ck 12 and this is that immeadetley identifiable sound.
the f12 has a sound like a cloud with sun poking through silver lining ;light illuminating the high freqs. very buttery high end not harsh or brittle at all.
its this definition to the sounds edges and upper harmonics.
the F12 does not lack low end.
The Bock 241 is an awesome mic as well but does not have this silver lining as it were, it has a defined mid range with squeeze pinch and juice; very focused.
im more partial to the high cut mode but the open mode without cut is brighter then the F12 and as rkrizman said the brightness is on top of the sound.
For contrast my view of the Flea 47 is like that of an ember in the bottom of a fire , light radiating from within/ through the sound warm bass smokey mid range totally connected.glow in mids lower mids whereas the F12 has a glow at the higher frequncies

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Old 5th May 2012
  #24
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peeweedrummer's Avatar
 

would love some audio examples of both!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
Well I only have a few hours with the Flea 12 so ill report back after a week or two to give a more nuanced feel.
The Flea 12 has the ct12 tim cambells which nails the ck12 sound.
i used to have a 414 eb with ck 12 and this is that immeadetley identifiable sound.
the f12 has a sound like a cloud with sun poking through silver lining ;light illuminating the high freqs. very buttery high end not harsh or brittle at all.
its this definition to the sounds edges and upper harmonics.
the F12 does not lack low end.
The Bock 241 is an awesome mic as well but does not have this silver lining as it were, it has a defined mid range with squeeze pinch and juice; very focused.
im more partial to the high cut mode but the open mode without cut is brighter then the F12 and as rkrizman said the brightness is on top of the sound.
For contrast my view of the Flea 47 is like that of an ember in the bottom of a fire , light radiating from within/ through the sound warm bass smokey mid range totally connected.

Sent from my VM670 using Gearslutz App
Old 18th May 2012
  #25
I just don't think i have time for samples but really if anything you'd be so much better off with one in your room with your gear
I guess I feel confident encouraging you to go through that hassle having used one for a few weeks.

The more I use the f12 the more I see it's class.
It excels on vocals and acoustic guitars room mic ...
It's just pleasure to record music trough this thing, which is-noteworthy

it has magic I dare say like the old ones did.
These guys have real craftsmanship knowledge and art in their creations
really something rare these days, there marketing
Is definitely as savvy as eastern bloc gets.......meaning not , flea is a bad "branding" but f--- that the mic sounds so good I start liking the name , what is that, reverse fetish commodity......
Old 18th May 2012
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
The only Bock I could compare them to is the 151. The Bock had that high end "hashiness" (a description, not a criticism) with a lot of air but somewhat on the surface.
I never noticed this with the Bock, even with hours and hours logged on it through all sorts of preamps and singers (I liked it on acoustic guitar a lot too).

If anything it was a little on the smoother side of things to my ears (which I'd much rather have than forward/aggressive sounding, especially when recording to digital).
Old 18th May 2012
  #27
Gear Head
 

I think I know what you mean. I'm wondering how FLEA mics avoided this typical modern sound without being just dark and muffled. How could it be really possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Yeah, "hashiness" is sort of a made up word, and not really a criticism, but a description of the type of "sshhh" sounding air you get with that mic, which I find characteristic of Bock mics and Wunders as well, to an extent. It seems like a modern quality and one I don't associate with the true vintage mics, but can be desirable nonetheless. And I'm not talking about that high end poke in the ear you get from the cheaper condenser knockoffs.

-R
Old 18th May 2012
  #28
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
I never noticed this with the Bock, even with hours and hours logged on it through all sorts of preamps and singers (I liked it on acoustic guitar a lot too).

If anything it was a little on the smoother side of things to my ears (which I'd much rather have than forward/aggressive sounding, especially when recording to digital).
I knew "hashiness" would get me into trouble. Definitely smooth mics, at least in my experience. They have a very smooth "hhhhaassshhhh" quality, not a criticism but a description. It's so subjective, people need to try them for themselves.

-R
Old 18th May 2012
  #29
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasandi View Post
I just don't think i have time for samples but really if anything you'd be so much better off with one in your room with your gear
I guess I feel confident encouraging you to go through that hassle having used one for a few weeks.

The more I use the f12 the more I see it's class.
It excels on vocals and acoustic guitars room mic ...
It's just pleasure to record music trough this thing, which is-noteworthy

it has magic I dare say like the old ones did.
These guys have real craftsmanship knowledge and art in their creations
really something rare these days, there marketing
Is definitely as savvy as eastern bloc gets.......meaning not , flea is a bad "branding" but f--- that the mic sounds so good I start liking the name , what is that, reverse fetish commodity......
I've been using a pair of F12's on the top of my Leslie and couldn't be happier. I put them up as drum overheads and they were smooth to a fault. I actually wished they had a little more "grab" to liven up the snare. After fooling with them for a while I went back to my KM 184 mainstays. They made the drums sound like toys in comparison. Too much artificial high end. I'm thinking maybe I've over dampened my drum corner.

Used them on Leslie Smith, a great r n b singer the other day, stacking up EW&F style harmonies. Smooth and clear, with plenty of body. He freaked when he sang into it. (my first choice, the Flea 47, sounded too big and veiled on him).

Tomorrow it's a long day of horns, and I've pulled out the 12's, a Flea 49 and AEA 84. Should be fun. Curious how the 12 treats a saxophone.

Yes, somehow they've created a mic with a vintage "weight" to it, supreme clarity and not even a hint of high end abrasiveness.

-R
Old 16th March 2013
  #30
Just chiming back in on the flea 12.
I have to say its a great mic

Anyone have any favorite uses for it?
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