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ON/OFF switch on some high end gear Dynamics Plugins
Old 20th September 2011
  #31
Gear Head
 
TheBankInc's Avatar
 

Well said Fletcher. Logic seems to be missing after the Millenium.
Old 20th September 2011
  #32
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin View Post
WHY on earth do some pieces of gear have the on/off switch in the back of the gear and not conveniently placed in the front.
Believe it or not some companies believe their gear should always be on. Their belief is it's better for the gear. For example my dangerous monitor has no power switch. I for one leave my gear on until I have more than a day without work. I shut down gear with a convenient power switch and the rest from the equitech's front panel.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #33
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulOcchialini View Post
Believe it or not some companies believe their gear should always be on. Their belief is it's better for the gear. For example my dangerous monitor has no power switch. I for one leave my gear on until I have more than a day without work. I shut down gear with a convenient power switch and the rest from the equitech's front panel.


I can't see it being "better" for the gear but I can see that the reason would be that most break downs happen when you turn things on and off thus 24/7 studios can't afford to risk (thanks Fletcher).

I don't believe it's better.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin View Post
..I can see that the reason would be that most break downs happen when you turn things on and off thus 24/7 studios can't afford to risk.
Exactly. Kind of like most jetliner crashes happen during take-off or landing, so maybe they should just stay in the air indefinitely?
Old 22nd September 2011
  #35
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The power on/off sequence certainly is the most stressful part for electronics gear. So it becomes an endless debate of wear and tear vs increased electricity costs. The answer really depends on the end user application.
Old 23rd September 2011
  #36
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

you know what?


Just put the damn buttons in the front will ya!


Thanks to all that participated
Old 23rd September 2011
  #37
Lives for gear
 

^ 100% agree. On every single other piece of electronic gear OUTSIDE of the studio, power switches are on the front, or the side. It takes nothing to have the power cable run back to the front to a switch that cuts off the power. Engineering-wise, it's not a difficult task at all. The power switches should be on the direct front, or front side of the gear, plain and simple!
Old 23rd September 2011
  #38
Lives for gear
It's long been a distinction that pro level stuff either has the switch on the back or no switch at all. The last thing you want in an audio chain is some turning something off inadvertently. Same with live sound. Everything down stream suffers from the on and off pop unless there is sophisticated muting designed in.

If there aren't enough receptacles in the Furman box, you can always do what IT racks have done for years. Have a long vertical strip bolted to the rack controlled by a front panel switch. This can be as simple as a few power strips on the side walls of the rack (thereby solving that left right problem) plugged into the Furman/Juice Goose or whatever rack strip.

Another lesson I learned from live sound is to strip all the silly and noisy "filters" out of the strips. Just good solid connections for clean power.

My personal little project room has two rack power strips. One turns on the monitoring chain for mixing or listening to things on the computer (ITB), and the other turns on all the outboard for tracking. Pretty simple.
Old 23rd September 2011
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisle 6 View Post
I just have a master power switch which powers up all the racks on a soft power up/power down switch. One switch and all my racks are on.
i always wondered about this. a surge of power seems to be a brutal way to start the day and seems to be when my gear goes down. can you let us know the manufacturer?
Old 24th September 2011
  #40
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin View Post
I can't see it being "better" for the gear but I can see that the reason would be that most break downs happen when you turn things on and off thus 24/7 studios can't afford to risk (thanks Fletcher).

I don't believe it's better.
Ok, better to not Damage gear during power up. Is that better for you? Listen I really don't care one way or another. I shut my gear down when I'm done. I will say I have had conversations with people who design and build gear who have said to me it's better to leave it on.
Old 24th September 2011
  #41
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If it's better to leave it on, why is there a power switch on it in the first place?
Old 24th September 2011
  #42
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by VenVile View Post
If it's better to leave it on, why is there a power switch on it in the first place?
Really? Because your going away for a week, Or you'd like to Change a tube. Or because not everyone wants to leave their gear on all the time.
Old 25th September 2011
  #43
Lives for gear
 

^ That's exactly my point. If "it's better to leave you gear on all the time"...they won't come with power switches. But they do come with power switches! And I certainly don't believe it's better to leave your gear on all the time. If it really were better, manufacturers won't put power switches on them. Instead, if you wanted it off, you'd unplug it, or switch off your power conditioner/line strip.
Old 26th September 2011
  #44
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Avalons AD gear they are no switches, that means plug up and leave on all the time, Apogee X series some units will drive you crazy about turning on and off. What's up with that ?
Old 26th September 2011
  #45
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
I'm not a professional driver... but I do drive a car to work everyday. I find that changing the oil in that car is a pain in the arse and like to delay the process whenever possible. While its recommended to change the oil every 2500 miles [about 4000 km] I'll usually push it to about 3000 mi. [5000 km] and generally get away with it... of course I could probably push that to 4000 mi [about 6500 km] and most likely nothing really bad will happen to the car... but in the long run it will add wear to the parts and I won't get the life expectancy from the car I would have gotten if I had changed the oil more regularly...
I agree with the rest of this post, but respectively, you may be your mechanic's best friend. You might consult your manufacturer's maintenance schedule and be surprised to find it significantly longer than your estimates. For example, take the 2005 Honda Accord. Honda recommends a change every 7,500 miles for the V6, and 10,000 for the 4. Even under the most severe conditions recommendations, the lowest is 3,750 miles. For most drivers, 5,000 is an easy number to remember and exceeds the criteria for long-term life.

Attention to maintenance is what separates a professional from the rest IMO, and Fletcher's post is a great template to follow. Those that don't pay the price and tend to be the one's losing their minds when something goes wrong.

You might need to be careful with powering up everything at once because with switching supplies in many pieces these days the inrush current is quite large (30-100 amps). That can pop fuses and wear on your electrical. Devices that do time-delay power are a good solution.

Last edited by brew; 26th September 2011 at 03:43 PM.. Reason: Added a note.
Old 26th September 2011
  #46
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erikdrink's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin View Post
you know what?


Just put the damn buttons in the front will ya!


Thanks to all that participated

Like Tube-Tech
Old 26th September 2011
  #47
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brew View Post
Devices that do time-delay power are a good solution.
Gear that has this built in? How can you tell if gear has this or not?

Or, if you're talking about external devices that do this (soft power on), can you list/name some?
Old 26th September 2011
  #48
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BassBronson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
Gear that has this built in? How can you tell if gear has this or not?

Or, if you're talking about external devices that do this (soft power on), can you list/name some?
Monster cables' Monster Pro power conditioners power up and down in sequence. They have 2 and 3 sequenced conditioners.
Old 26th September 2011
  #49
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_Ludovico's Avatar
 

Completely agree with the OP. I was asking myself the same exact question about guitar amps. Why the hell is the power switch in the back? That's a little annoying for big stacks.

Leaving gear on 24/7? Not an option for me. I do agree that a Furman type of device can be handy, but still, I don't believe it would be that hard to put the switch on the faceplate.
Old 26th September 2011
  #50
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassBronson View Post
Monster cables' Monster Pro power conditioners power up and down in sequence. They have 2 and 3 sequenced conditioners.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is not a soft power up per se (ramping up voltages as opposed to a instant full 120v 'on'). All it does is sequence (delay) the power on between the AC outlets. i.e., outlet 1 first, then turn on outlet 2 second, outlet 3 third, etc.

What we/I are talking about here is a variac like soft power up, ramping the 'on' voltage up to 120v.

EDIT: I think you and brew are on the same page. I misread brew's post thinking he was talking of a soft power on, when in fact he might of been talking about a sequential power up as you mentioned. Sorry.

Though I'm still interested in what soft pwr up units people might be using?
Old 26th September 2011
  #51
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crosscutred's Avatar
Is it possible that soft powerup devices might limit the mains supply ability to provide clean high loads quickly?

I went to great lengths to wire up my studio with fat wire and reduce the number of switches, and extra contacts etc that can cause bottlenecks in the supply and cause audio equipment (especially amps) to "sag" when there is a fast transient.

I just power down my studio from the wall switches (in the UK we have switches on most wall sockets) making sure to turn off the amps first.
The biggest drawback with powering down every night seems to be that it takes a little while to warm up and sound really good.

Fletcher is right (as usual heh) about keeping on top of maintainence....the thing that breaks down is always the thing I have had a recent "need to give that a once over" thought about.
Old 26th September 2011
  #52
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brew View Post
I agree with the rest of this post, but respectively, you may be your mechanic's best friend. You might consult your manufacturer's maintenance schedule and be surprised to find it significantly longer than your estimates. For example, take the 2005 Honda Accord. Honda recommends a change every 7,500 miles for the V6, and 10,000 for the 4. Even under the most severe conditions recommendations, the lowest is 3,750 miles. For most drivers, 5,000 is an easy number to remember and exceeds the criteria for long-term life.
...by all means lets quibble about the example... FWIW my BMW Z4 [and the Saab 9-3 "Arc" before it] only requires an oil change about every 15,000 miles... and is nice enough to tell me that they were due for those oil changes [both the Z4 and the 9-3 "Arc"].

The point was about performing routine maintenance... that its a good thing, and should be done on a regular and scheduled basis... but as always YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin View Post
you know what?


Just put the damn buttons in the front will ya!
How about you have the units that don't have power switches on the front modified to have power switches on the front? In fact, they're probably modifications you can do yourself... all you need is a switch, a drill... and maybe a pair of pliers and a couple of wire nuts.

In fact... it would take less time to perform said operation than it would to read this thread.

Food for thought?

Peace
Old 27th September 2011
  #53
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post

How about you have the units that don't have power switches on the front modified to have power switches on the front? In fact, they're probably modifications you can do yourself... all you need is a switch, a drill... and maybe a pair of pliers and a couple of wire nuts.

In fact... it would take less time to perform said operation than it would to read this thread.

Food for thought?

Peace
Cool idea Fletcher but drilling a hole through our DW Fearn VT-7 sounds like jumping off a cliff to me. Although it would work, (I'm an electrician btw) I figure with the 5k price tag that I better just leave it alone and physically turn it on and off from the back...

Same for both our Pendulum units.

It's not the end of the world but I figure it would make good conversation about the PITA it creates.

As a gear designer, I really wonder how hard is it? Was there much thought put into it? Were there alternatives?

Anyhow, thanks for the replies everyone... interesting to hear everyones opinion.

Glad to know I'm not alone

J.
Old 27th September 2011
  #54
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin View Post
Cool idea Fletcher but drilling a hole through our DW Fearn VT-7 sounds like jumping off a cliff to me. Although it would work, (I'm an electrician btw) I figure with the 5k price tag that I better just leave it alone and physically turn it on and off from the back...

Same for both our Pendulum units.

It's not the end of the world but I figure it would make good conversation about the PITA it creates.

As a gear designer, I really wonder how hard is it? Was there much thought put into it? Were there alternatives?

Anyhow, thanks for the replies everyone... interesting to hear everyones opinion.

Glad to know I'm not alone

J.
Ok, since your an electrician, why don't you extend the wires from your Fearn and Pendulum unit's to rack mount faceplate with switches to turn them on and off. If you sell a unit just put the switch back.
Old 27th September 2011
  #56
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The reason they have the switch on back is probably the same reason they over-engineered literally everything else on it physically and sonically, which is probably the same reason his company is not named Behringer. Which is also probably the same reason we love it.
Old 27th September 2011
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latestflavor View Post
The reason they have the switch on back is probably the same reason they over-engineered literally everything else on it physically and sonically, which is probably the same reason his company is not named Behringer. Which is also probably the same reason we love it.

Cause he is a hardcore gear designer first dammit - and the other option of working for the next i-spank to stuff the next generation with recording their instruments onto a quantum watch phone tablet (which also vibrates your wrist when you wank to porn with it) doesn't seem that appealing when he realizes said snotty users will defame his character because their epic wrist music doesn't sound like a 1982 recording masterpiece (despite setting up cutting technologies for wrist phone to be placed directly on wank-ee enabling fully automatic wanking which can be set to a timed calendar and initiated virtually anywhere)

Or not, I could be wrong on that last part.
Sounds like you might be the type that likes the switch in the rear? heh
Old 27th September 2011
  #58
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latestflavor's Avatar
 

Hah!!! ****, I typed that for my own ****s and giggles and the goddam iPhone starts sending!!!! Like that commercial where the co-worker says "you replied all"..... Fuuuuuuukkkkkkk
Old 28th September 2011
  #59
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killahurts View Post
Sounds like you might be the type that likes the switch in the rear? heh
lol

Some people like it in the rearheh
Old 3rd October 2011
  #60
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
EDIT: I think you and brew are on the same page. I misread brew's post thinking he was talking of a soft power on, when in fact he might of been talking about a sequential power up as you mentioned. Sorry.

Though I'm still interested in what soft pwr up units people might be using?
I was referring to sequential power on. Soft power as you describe seems like a very bad idea, for the same reason you wouldn't plug a 220V HVAC into a 110V outlet. Effectively you're creating a brown-out which is typically something people want to avoid. You'd probably damage your gear with the unexpected current draw at the lower voltage.
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