The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
VM1 +pre + comp... smooth and record ready sound... Channel Strips
Old 8th September 2011
  #1
Gear Addict
 
Noise Commander's Avatar
 

VM1 +pre + comp... smooth and record ready sound...

I need the right preamp/channelstrip for my Brauner VM1.

It will be one of these:

Retro Instruments Powerstrip Recording Channel (1Ch)
Pendulum Quartet II (1Ch)
Manley VoxBox (1Ch)
D.W. Fearn VT-1 (1Ch)
Mercury M76 (1Ch)
Chandler Germanium (1Ch)

who has worked with them and has some tips for me?
What what give the best results?

Keep in mind that I mix totally ITB.
I want a smooth, classy commercial pop/rock sound.

I know that the VM1 is clean, I ask myself how much color is TOO much?
Let's say I have a vibey tube pre, followed by a Anamod ATS-1?
Or a Retro 176 with 3 dB compression?

Tube pre, tube comp and tape?
Or Tube pre and non-tube compressor?

Would be nice if you cound tell me how it behaves in your experience...

Usually I recorded the VM1 with a Api A2D. Sounds fine, everything else is processed itb, but it lacks a certain controlled smoothness and punch.

I want a singnal coming from the front end, that needs a minimum amount of itb processing...
Old 8th September 2011
  #2
Lives for gear
 
seaneldon's Avatar
 

It'd be a toss-up for me between the Quartet II and the Powerstrip. The Quartet does have a fair amount of "smoothing" to it but is still rather "hi-res"...the Powerstrip gets a bit more "plump", for lack of a better word, and the compressor definitely has more vibe than the ES-8 compressor in the QII.

Really, any of these would be more than fine...
Old 9th September 2011
  #3
Gear Addict
 
Noise Commander's Avatar
 

I ask myself if i'd be better off combining a top preamp wit a top compressor
(e.g. DW Fearn VT-1 + Retro 176)

Or getting a Channel Strip (Retro Powerstrip, Manley VoxBox, Quartet II)

What's the way to go?
Old 9th September 2011
  #4
The way to go here is solely dependent on you I think, after you try some stuff out and see where it lands you. In my experience it matters not what any posting's have to say w/ these kinds of questions, on such nominally satisfying selections as these. All really strong moves!! You could flip a coin, really...as long as you have the coin to flip. I think you haven't listed a bad option to pair with the Brauner, but the choice between what you need for amplification [slight tonal texture only] and processing and such will always have more in common with your application, and the way you would like have this hardware couple together towards your specific [subjectively objective] goal, and results you would like to see, given the texture and sound quality of the VM1.

The FEARN VT1/2 series mic amp's were optimized for using with hot output and highly linear condenser microphones. Everything about the response, affords these types of microphones, a very pleasing "day at the spa" relaxed feel, smoothness without obscuring their clarity or depth. To my ear it removes harsh sizzle with a mellow softer top end, that is still alive, and brillant to me. The bottom is HUGE on this preamp, so you have to want that kind of "reach into the speaker" fatness that is sometimes hard to believe. The preamp does really well at quelling any overload of attack or unnatural resonances. I've had this preamp for years now and I will give it to my off spring when I pass to the next life.
Old 9th September 2011
  #5
Gear Nut
I'm trying out a VM1 right now. Very detailed but also a bit sibliant. Will the Fearn preamp help with that? I also got a Innertube magmic. Hopefully the Brauner will work on the voices that doesn't suit the Innertube. How is the Fearn with a magmic?
I got a console, so I usually don't buy preamps. Maybe it's better to spend my money on another compressor? But I got a VacRac, so it's hard to find another compressor that I want to use...
Old 9th September 2011
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noise Commander View Post
What's the way to go?
trying lots of different stuff by yourself,
spending money,
making mistakes,
learning lessons by some of the above.

Plenty of pro audio shops around munich
who will be happy to let you try their gear.
Old 9th September 2011
  #7
Gear Head
I have the Valvet and I think it's a great combo with the Germanium. I also have the Powerstrip, Tube-Tech Mec 1a, SSL E signature, among others, and of course these chanel strips are great, but the Germanium semes to add the right thing for my Brauner. -but that is my taste
Old 10th September 2011
  #8
Lives for gear
 

IMO the Germanium takes away a certain amount of the VM-1 super-Xray-character.

I liked it.

Then there's VM-1 with Millennia pre..
Old 23rd September 2011
  #9
Gear Addict
 
Noise Commander's Avatar
 

I guess I totally need the sound of Class A, and triode even order harmonics. And not to much of the typical pentode chimes and dissonance...

So this means I'd have to get some kind of quality tube circuit??

The thing is, my Api Preamp, and my Channel One, and also the Great River have no tubes... So maybe it's the wrong way to add yet another not-tube design like the chandler germanium?

Or do the germanium transitors behave similar like tubes, and put out nice saturation textures with a smooth, warm and harmonic even order distortion??

Neve 1073s don't have tubes either, do they?

What's the most 1073 like modern pre out there?
Chandler LTD-1? TG2? Which of
the too has the smoother, warmer sound, and fits the cold,"brittle" VM1 more?

I might get a VoxBox, and put very good tubes in it...

Which preamd handles high-output brauners the best? Giving me high-en record-ready smooth, even-order harmonic sound? What's the best tube design out there with those specs?
Old 23rd September 2011
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
The thing is, my Api Preamp, and my Channel One, and also the Great River have no tubes...
The Channel One (if SPL) does have a tube.


Quote:
Neve 1073s don't have tubes either, do they?
Nope.


Henk
Old 23rd September 2011
  #11
Gear Addict
 
Noise Commander's Avatar
 

Right, that little thing in the SPL. But it's no smooth, fat triode tube design.

I'm searching for:
- Class A
- Triode Tube design
- Smooth, fat, unveiled sound.
- above all headroom and capable of loads of tasty distortion that is not too noticeable, limiting the voltage output naturally.
(=mainly 2nd order harmonics, and even order, and less 3rd and high order)

Maybe there are good transistor designs in that direction too... I ask myself what harmonic content te chandler germanium produces???

But I'd like too add a text from Russell O. Humm:

"The transistor characteristics which our subjects noted were the buzzing or white-noise sound and the lack of "punch." The buzz is of course directly related to the edge produced by overloading on transients. The guess that this is white noise is due to the fact that many of the edge harmonics like the seventh and ninth are not musically related to the fundamental. The ear hears these dissonant tones as a kind of noise accompanying every attack. The lack of punch is due to the strong third harmonic which is inaudibly "blanketing" the sound. This is correctable by using a large enough pad to prevent all peaks from reaching the amplifier's saturated region. (...)

Vacuum-tube amplifiers differ from transistor and operational amplifiers because they can be operated in the overload region without adding objectionable distortion. The combination of the slow rising edge and the open harmonic structure of the overload characteristics form an almost ideal sound- recording compressor. Within the 15-20 dB "safe" overload range, the electrical output of the tube amplifier increases by only 2-4 dB, acting like a limiter. However, since the edge is increasing within this range, the subjective loudness remains uncompressed to the ear. This effect causes tube-amplified signals to have a high apparent level which is not indicated on a volume indicator (VU meter). Tubes sound louder and have a better signal-to-noise ratio because of this extra subjective head room that transistor amplifiers do not have. Tubes get punch from their naturally brassy overload characteristics. Since the loud signals can be recorded at higher levels, the softer signals are also louder, so they are not lost in tape hiss and they effectively give the tube sound greater clarity. The feeling of more bass response is directly related to the strong second and third harmonic components which reinforce the "natural" bass with "synthetic" bass [5]. In the context of a limited dynamic range system like the phonograph, recordings made with vacuum-tube preamplifiers will have more apparent level and a greater signal to system noise ratio than recordings made with transistors or operational amplifiers. (...)"

What modern gear fits the requirements??
Old 24th September 2011
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Noise Commander's Avatar
 

Bump
Old 25th September 2011
  #13
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
The only way for you to know is to try it out yourself.. As others stated, it's highly dependent from the source that you're recording first and what do you want to achieve and /or your tastes.. There's might be an answer, but that's MY point of view, which could be totally different from yours..
I mean at this level it's really a matter of taste..

Btw I wouldn't discard to idea of a beautiful BAE 1028 or 1081..
Followed by an LA2A..

Btw both the Retro and the Mercury could be great great contenders..oh well..the Fearn also I guess (never used one).

Seriously though the best thing is to try them out at your place..

Have fun with all this stuff and do some great recording!

Just my 0.02$,

Cheu
Old 25th September 2011
  #14
Lives for gear
 
lordward's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I'm trying out a VM1 right now. Very detailed but also a bit sibliant. Will the Fearn preamp help with that?
The VM is "bright" but has very nice sibilance detail IMO. Have you tried just backing up a bit? I use this mic a lot. Loving it everywhere, OHs, bass, guitars, kazoo..... On vocals, if I have good room acoustics, I like stepping a bit back with the singer. Sibilance was never a problem for me with the VM.... Unless the singer was eating the mic.

DW
Old 25th September 2011
  #15
Gear Nut
 
ac55's Avatar
 

Noise commander, just curious what tubes you would exchange in the voxbox and why?
Old 25th September 2011
  #16
KAB
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordward View Post
The VM is "bright" but has very nice sibilance detail IMO. Have you tried just backing up a bit? I use this mic a lot. Loving it everywhere, OHs, bass, guitars, kazoo..... On vocals, if I have good room acoustics, I like stepping a bit back with the singer. Sibilance was never a problem for me with the VM.... Unless the singer was eating the mic.

DW
One of the qualities of my VM-1 I like the most is its "fast", non-obtrusive and "silky/airy" handling of sibilants. Esses, for example, have never been a problem and I can almost eliminate them completely using vocal technique alone. Maybe it's just my particular mic...

Some/many would want more "color", perhaps, but I happily use the VM-1 with the Gordon Model 4 for my own (second tenor) voice. I use "transparent" compression and comparatively very little of it, relying as much as possible on applied dynamics control at the source.

EDIT: OP, I meant to add that I have also used the VM-1 with the Manley Dual Mono, which as I understand it has the same basic preamp as the VoxBox. It was a good sound IMO, a "little" slower, smooth overall and slightly softer-sounding on the high end to my ears.
Old 29th September 2011
  #17
Gear Addict
 
Noise Commander's Avatar
 

Here in Germany I couldn't find a shop that offers all the the preamps I'd like to compare... and it's not common to get them for
free and compare them... I'd have to buy them all.. and send those back I dislike ?
DW Fearn, Manley VoxBox, Chandler, Retro Powerstrip...?
Damn it... gotto try them somehow
Old 30th September 2011
  #18
Lives for gear
 
axisdreamer's Avatar
What works for me is my tube 201-A electrodyne pre and distressor! The tube pre takes away the sharpness but still sounds open in the top end.The distressor is a good all around compressor for any tracking..I use a Pearlam tm-1 tube mic and the sound i get with these is so fat but yet open and I never have a problem with sib. range freq.'s!

I use to use API pres for everything but the electrodyne is my go to for vocals and many other tracks. I also have solid state electrodyne pres and they sound fat as well and like a record!!!

Electrodyne sort of has api and neve in it,just the right amount of each for my taste.

I had a germ pre but it didnt do for vocals what my pres now do.

Good luck!!
Old 30th September 2011
  #19
Lives for gear
 
E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Your mic > 1073DPA > CL1B sounds terrific..
Old 1st October 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noise Commander View Post
I guess I totally need the sound of Class A, and triode even order harmonics. And not to much of the typical pentode chimes and dissonance...

So this means I'd have to get some kind of quality tube circuit??

Which preamd handles high-output brauners the best? Giving me high-en record-ready smooth, even-order harmonic sound? What's the best tube design out there with those specs?
You didn't mention it, but my Brauners are extremely happy with SPL's Frontliner. It gives just the right controls to shape the sound to a highly polished, ready to record signal, with no post-shaping needed. Maybe you should try that one first before you think of more expensive solutions.
Old 12th December 2011
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
You didn't mention it, but my Brauners are extremely happy with SPL's Frontliner. It gives just the right controls to shape the sound to a highly polished, ready to record signal, with no post-shaping needed. Maybe you should try that one first before you think of more expensive solutions.

Hello All!

How has the story end?
Old 12th December 2011
  #22
Gear Addict
 
Noise Commander's Avatar
 

I bought a D.W. Fearn VT-1.
End of story. Another league.

Followed by a compressor of your choice, (just 2-3 db), press record, done.

NO ITB processing needed!
(except for fx of course)

No EQ, no further comp....
Wow!

VM-1 + VT-1 = heaven.
Old 13th December 2011
  #23
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noise Commander View Post
I bought a D.W. Fearn VT-1.
End of story. Another league.

Followed by a compressor of your choice, (just 2-3 db), press record, done.

NO ITB processing needed!
(except for fx of course)

No EQ, no further comp....
Wow!

VM-1 + VT-1 = heaven.
Thanks for Feedback!
I have almost the same initial situation!
Greetz
Old 15th December 2011
  #24
Gear Addict
 
sfoote's Avatar
Since this thread has been recently revived. I've been messing about with a Fearn VT-1, RND 5032 and the APB Dynasonic board preamps. This is not with a Brauner but a Wunder CM7GT. All my voice

APB is way better than I expected for a rackmount board - I guess they are the same as from the Spectra live boards.

The RND 5032 is flexible with the silk in and silk out. Silk out gave a nice clear realistic sound, with a little less sizzle than the APB. Silk in added some lower end fullness -- it sounds like transformers switching in.

The Fearn, though, sounds like someone gargled all the phlegm out. Very smooth, but still clear details top to bottom. A remarkable feat, and from what I hear about Brauners, a good fit.

I haven't messed about with other preamps to judge (I had an A-Designs MP-2a which I loved, and was two channels for the price of one Fearn channel. It's not here to compare, but recollection is it's in the direction of Fearn, but perhaps not all the way there).

I combine these preamps with a Retro Sta Level for vocal duties. I believe for my voice I have nothing left to improve except, well, my voice.
Sean
Old 15th December 2011
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Many times I use a ViPre with the VM1.
Especially if I'm using PT not tape.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump