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CLA telling the difference between boys and men Control Surfaces
Old 8th September 2011
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Yes, but my production room doesn't cost that per month...well in pounds or euros at least.
Really? Dealio Smith rent scenario then....
Old 8th September 2011
  #32
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Nice find,

What I interpret CLA was trying to say is that workflow environment has an effect on approach and outcome, and I agree 100%.

Interacting with a computer is a very different experience than for example, interacting with a bicycle. Different parts of mind and body are engaged.

To relate this to music, for a violinist, interacting with a violin vs. interacting with a MIDI keyboard with a violin patch (no matter how great) is going to change what gets played.

Those of us who still have hardware synths know. And when I turn the big red knob on my Neve 1073 and feel+hear the satisfying click-clack, and manually patching in my 1176, it's a very different feeling compared to calling up the equivalent plugins, and it affects what I do and therefore the outcome.

The process affects the outcome. One of those blindingly obvious truths that somehow gets forgotten.
Old 8th September 2011
  #33
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I dunno but what he talks about transport is just bull**** - any PT system does behave like his Sony Dash thingy when it's set up porperly ...
Old 8th September 2011
  #34
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Interesting.

I dunno how I feel about that; CLA's personal opinion about the benefits of SSL desks to his workflow and involvement in the creative process.

Curios rhetoric in some ways.

I cannot afford that amount of hardware but I feel like a King (not a telephone operator) with the control I have with my DAW and its total recall - and my hardware controllers.

In some ways it's difficult to relate to CLA's experience...

Thank god for Pensado's Place!
Old 8th September 2011
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomcore View Post
His mix skills are maybe good, but he is totally ''slimy'' person to me, don't like his attitude.
Yes, he seems to be quite full of himself and stuck to his old ways, like most mixing engineers actually.

I wouldn´t use that console even if I got it for free. I would feel like an old washed up fartknocker with dinosaur equipment.

ITB (without DSP) native rules!
Old 8th September 2011
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
Interesting.

I dunno how I feel about that; CLA's personal opinion about the benefits of SSL desks to his workflow and involvement in the creative process.

Curios rhetoric in some ways.

I cannot afford that amount of hardware but I feel like a King (not a telephone operator) with the control I have with my DAW and its total recall and my controllers.

In some ways it's difficult to relate to CLA's experience...

Thank god for Pensado's Place!
CLA is the GOD of mixing.. Whatever he says I do......He is one of people that really "love the art" and wants it to live..
Old 8th September 2011
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo View Post
CLA is the GOD of mixing.. Whatever he says I do......He is one of people that really "love the art" and wants it to live..
I dunno whether you are being sarcastic or not...

If you are sincere, then fair enough.

CLA may be the GOD of mixing to you, but not to me - I have no doubt about his massive influence and have definitely learnt from him, but I have learnt from so many mix engineers who are God's of other genres too.

Not only that, it is far easier for me to relate to hybrid and ITB mixers.
Old 8th September 2011
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
Yes, he seems to be quite full of himself and stuck to his old ways, like most mixing engineers actually.
The Lord says, "if you're full of yourself, you are a man"?

I thought that was a trait of boys.
Old 8th September 2011
  #39
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Kingtone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
The Lord says, "if you're full of yourself, you are a man"?

I thought that was a trait of boys.
heh
Old 8th September 2011
  #40
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While DAWs have brought some interesting new tools (the final outcome of them being... er, questionable at least), nothing has paralelled yet -and it's been about 3 decades already- the experience, feeling, fun and speed of the classic approach of mixing.
In this I agree with CLA 100%.


Within the classic studio enviroment, you can do in 6 minutes what it takes 2 hours with a mouse ITB. For instance, take 48+ tracks, set a main pan+fader balance, throw in some fx and sends accordlingly, gate for punch, a touch of compression and EQ here and there, boom. A rough mix is finished in a few minutes. With a DAW you'd be still looking for missing wavs and building the software mixer.

Back to the SSL scenario, it's time to mult the kick, snare, bass and a few vocals, group drums with some parallel compression and fine tune EQs. Add a slapback delay and find the proper plate for the voice. Touch faders a bit more. Group stuff a bit more. You're ready for the automation.
Start the first pass, move and mute here and there. Now go on adding non-destructive mixpasses, all based on the previous one, fine tuning each of them, looping each song's section separately to automate the moves, concentrating on as few bars as you need. VCA's were all assigned and now you're just using the 8 central VCA Group faders to finally balance drums and instrument groups vs vocals and BGs.

The mix is essentially done. It's been a little more than one hour.

Where would you be with the mouse at this point? It certainly will take you an entire day just to reach to this very same point.


ITB has fast recalls, yes, but it takes 10 times longer to do the same. With the SSL, by now you can take a half an hour break for some tapas and a glass of Rioja, reset your ears, and come back to finish the job (or even scrap it all and start again from scratch). Over and over. Meanwhile, the ITB guy is still browsing through a hundred EQ plugins for the kick (track #1).

No comparison at all.
Old 8th September 2011
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Really? Dealio Smith rent scenario then....
Well, I share it..but I still get it half the time, so I don't have to charge a studio fee on top...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
Yes, he seems to be quite full of himself and stuck to his old ways, like most mixing engineers actually.
Do you know many top level mix engineers? I know a few....whilst plenty have set ways of working, that's because it works for them, and earns them the top dollar! they certainly aren't closed to new ideas...I know at least one SSL based guy (you'd know his work) who's gone from SSL to ITB+summing mixer, but only through economics, not through choice. I also know quite a few SSL mix engineers who've bought their own!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearNerd View Post
I wouldn´t use that console even if I got it for free. I would feel like an old washed up fartknocker with dinosaur equipment.

ITB (without DSP) native rules!
Yes...healthy element of trolling here I think, I'm guessing you've never used an SSL! there is a reason they're the #1 mix console still, and it's not because they're dinosaur equipment! Ah the knowledge of youth....admittedly, I wouldn't buy one either, but only because I couldn't afford the air con, maintenance, and assistant to do the recalls!
Old 8th September 2011
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
While DAWs have brought some interesting new tools (the final outcome of them being... er, questionable at least), nothing has paralelled yet -and it's been about 3 decades already- the experience, feeling, fun and speed of the classic approach of mixing.
In this I agree with CLA 100%.


Within the classic studio enviroment, you can do in 6 minutes what it takes 2 hours with a mouse ITB. For instance, take 48+ tracks, set a main pan+fader balance, throw in some fx and sends accordlingly, gate for punch, a touch of compression and EQ here and there, boom. A rough mix is finished in a few minutes. With a DAW you'd be still looking for missing wavs and building the software mixer.

Back to the SSL scenario, it's time to mult the kick, snare, bass and a few vocals, group drums with some parallel compression and fine tune EQs. Add a slapback delay and find the proper plate for the voice. Touch faders a bit more. Group stuff a bit more. You're ready for the automation.
Start the first pass, move and mute here and there. Now go on adding non-destructive mixpasses, all based on the previous one, fine tuning each of them, looping each song's section separately to automate the moves, concentrating on as few bars as you need. VCA's were all assigned and now you're just using the 8 central VCA Group faders to finally balance drums and instrument groups vs vocals and BGs.

The mix is essentially done. It's been a little more than one hour.

Where would you be with the mouse at this point? It certainly will take you an entire day just to reach to this very same point.


ITB has fast recalls, yes, but it takes 10 times longer to do the same. With the SSL, by now you can take a half an hour break for some tapas and a glass of Rioja, reset your ears, and come back to finish the job (or even scrap it all and start again from scratch). Over and over. Meanwhile, the ITB guy is still browsing through a hundred EQ plugins for the kick (track #1).

No comparison at all.
With all due respect: I have no idea what DAW it is that you used or are talking about, but this has not been my experience in the least.
Old 8th September 2011
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanvoth View Post
I don't get the point of this vid at all. I can't afford an SSL anyways and it's not the SSL that makes Chris do what he does so well.
Yeah, true. I thought it was his plugins with two knobs and a slider that made his sound. heh
Old 8th September 2011
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
Did anybody else notice the pair of Slate Pro Audio Dragon compressors in the rack?

War
Yes, some personal justification towards my own dragon was pretty exciting! I loved my dragon before the video too.
Old 8th September 2011
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
While DAWs have brought some interesting new tools (the final outcome of them being... er, questionable at least), nothing has paralelled yet -and it's been about 3 decades already- the experience, feeling, fun and speed of the classic approach of mixing.
In this I agree with CLA 100%.


Within the classic studio enviroment, you can do in 6 minutes what it takes 2 hours with a mouse ITB. For instance, take 48+ tracks, set a main pan+fader balance, throw in some fx and sends accordlingly, gate for punch, a touch of compression and EQ here and there, boom. A rough mix is finished in a few minutes. With a DAW you'd be still looking for missing wavs and building the software mixer.

Back to the SSL scenario, it's time to mult the kick, snare, bass and a few vocals, group drums with some parallel compression and fine tune EQs. Add a slapback delay and find the proper plate for the voice. Touch faders a bit more. Group stuff a bit more. You're ready for the automation.
Start the first pass, move and mute here and there. Now go on adding non-destructive mixpasses, all based on the previous one, fine tuning each of them, looping each song's section separately to automate the moves, concentrating on as few bars as you need. VCA's were all assigned and now you're just using the 8 central VCA Group faders to finally balance drums and instrument groups vs vocals and BGs.

The mix is essentially done. It's been a little more than one hour.

Where would you be with the mouse at this point? It certainly will take you an entire day just to reach to this very same point.


ITB has fast recalls, yes, but it takes 10 times longer to do the same. With the SSL, by now you can take a half an hour break for some tapas and a glass of Rioja, reset your ears, and come back to finish the job (or even scrap it all and start again from scratch). Over and over. Meanwhile, the ITB guy is still browsing through a hundred EQ plugins for the kick (track #1).

No comparison at all.
Not true at all. I have a template set up in my DAW that makes setting up a rough mix lightning quick. I'm also working with a mouse and keyboard in a DAW all day, everyday so using a mouse and keyboard feels like second nature to me.

It all depends on what you're used to and how you've become accustomed to working. Yes I'm sure it would take CLA or yourself 10x longer on a computer, but doing a rough mix on an SSL would take me 10x longer.

This whole argument is like trying to tell a Left handed person that she/he should write with their right hand because it's so much better/quicker!



Now if we're talking sonics, the SSL is obviously in a different ballgame!
Old 8th September 2011
  #46
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With all respect... I like CLA mix style, I like old analog desk and tape... But it's all gonna be like dinosaurs some time. Old, absolete and unpractical in the modern way of mixing music.
In business picture this isn't to last long. Time is changing and so the way we work.
Move on and make your own style that is adapted for the future instead of copying like a Chinese guy back-engineering a U47...
Old 8th September 2011
  #47
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
While DAWs have brought some interesting new tools (the final outcome of them being... er, questionable at least), nothing has paralelled yet -and it's been about 3 decades already- the experience, feeling, fun and speed of the classic approach of mixing.
In this I agree with CLA 100%.


Within the classic studio enviroment, you can do in 6 minutes what it takes 2 hours with a mouse ITB. For instance, take 48+ tracks, set a main pan+fader balance, throw in some fx and sends accordlingly, gate for punch, a touch of compression and EQ here and there, boom. A rough mix is finished in a few minutes. With a DAW you'd be still looking for missing wavs and building the software mixer.

Back to the SSL scenario, it's time to mult the kick, snare, bass and a few vocals, group drums with some parallel compression and fine tune EQs. Add a slapback delay and find the proper plate for the voice. Touch faders a bit more. Group stuff a bit more. You're ready for the automation.
Start the first pass, move and mute here and there. Now go on adding non-destructive mixpasses, all based on the previous one, fine tuning each of them, looping each song's section separately to automate the moves, concentrating on as few bars as you need. VCA's were all assigned and now you're just using the 8 central VCA Group faders to finally balance drums and instrument groups vs vocals and BGs.

The mix is essentially done. It's been a little more than one hour.

Where would you be with the mouse at this point? It certainly will take you an entire day just to reach to this very same point.


ITB has fast recalls, yes, but it takes 10 times longer to do the same. With the SSL, by now you can take a half an hour break for some tapas and a glass of Rioja, reset your ears, and come back to finish the job (or even scrap it all and start again from scratch). Over and over. Meanwhile, the ITB guy is still browsing through a hundred EQ plugins for the kick (track #1).

No comparison at all.
This post has to be remembered as one of the most stupid posts in history of this forum.
Old 8th September 2011
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
Reading a copy of a manual would blow your mind heh
+1

My inner geekchild always gets his own way here... I suppose I might be one of very few 'slutz who has read almost every paragraph or every page of every owner/op manual for every piece of gear he owns (or has owned)...

Meh, fiction never appealed to me...
Old 8th September 2011
  #49
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Nothing changes faster, more often and becomes more quickly obsolete than computer methodology and technology so I guess by some peoples standards the biggest dinosaurs would be "ITB" guys right?
Old 8th September 2011
  #50
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I don't understand the point of mocking CLA calling him a "dinosaur" or "old fart". From my perspective the "dinosaurs" are the ones who are unable to produce results that are relavant to the times. Calling CLA a dinsosaur because he loves the sound and workflow of analog gear and consoles is like mocking Wolfgang Puck for using a woodburning oven in the age of the microwave.
Old 8th September 2011
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod View Post
I don't understand the point of mocking CLA calling him a "dinosaur" or "old fart". From my perspective the "dinosaurs" are the ones who are unable to produce results that are relavant to the times. Calling CLA a dinsosaur because he loves the sound and workflow of analog gear and consoles is like mocking Wolfgang Puck for using a woodburning oven in the age of the microwave.
Totally valid point, except in this situation it would be like Wolfgang puck saying that his wood burning oven heats up food faster than a microwave....

It's totally cool that CLA has his own workflow that works for him though!
Old 8th September 2011
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
If you can't afford to buy a Boeing or an Airbus, does that mean you will never ever travel?


A full SSL/Neve pro studio can be booked for just 400/day or even for as low as 250/day on shorter term basis.
I should've stated myself a little more clearly. I love CLA's work and would love to be able to craft mixes as well as he does, but the fact of the matter is that an SSL is not going to make me craft mixes like he does. I'd go as far as saying it won't help anyone sound like him. He's got his own thing and it really doesn't matter whether he's a telephone operator as he calls it or in front of the SSL. The console isn't what makes a CLA mix a CLA mix. So what's the point of this video? He's advertising a console that isn't made anymore, is extremely expensive and isn't the sole factor to his sound. I know you love SSL gear, as do I but I just think this video is extremely pointless.
Old 8th September 2011
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanvoth View Post
I should've stated myself a little more clearly. I love CLA's work and would love to be able to craft mixes as well as he does, but the fact of the matter is that an SSL is not going to make me craft mixes like he does. I'd go as far as saying it won't help anyone sound like him. He's got his own thing and it really doesn't matter whether he's a telephone operator as he calls it or in front of the SSL. The console isn't what makes a CLA mix a CLA mix. So what's the point of this video? He's advertising a console that isn't made anymore, is extremely expensive and isn't the sole factor to his sound. I know you love SSL gear, as do I but I just think this video is extremely pointless.
+1....well said!!
Old 8th September 2011
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
I dunno whether you are being sarcastic or not...

If you are sincere, then fair enough.

CLA may be the GOD of mixing to you, but not to me - I have no doubt about his massive influence and have definitely learnt from him, but I have learnt from so many mix engineers who are God's of other genres too.

Not only that, it is far easier for me to relate to hybrid and ITB mixers.
I was being a little sarcastic... But honestly CLA is the ONLY mixer to my ears that pays attention to tone and texture and warmth of sound.. There are many GREAT mixers, but none maintain the warmth of CLA..Most GREAT mixers CD's I cannot listen to for more than 2 plays, in my car .. The sound is just too sharp, and thin...
Old 8th September 2011
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanvoth View Post
I should've stated myself a little more clearly. I love CLA's work and would love to be able to craft mixes as well as he does, but the fact of the matter is that an SSL is not going to make me craft mixes like he does. I'd go as far as saying it won't help anyone sound like him. He's got his own thing and it really doesn't matter whether he's a telephone operator as he calls it or in front of the SSL. The console isn't what makes a CLA mix a CLA mix. So what's the point of this video? He's advertising a console that isn't made anymore, is extremely expensive and isn't the sole factor to his sound. I know you love SSL gear, as do I but I just think this video is extremely pointless.
Dude Talent and tools.. period don't disconnect them... put CLA in front of a computer and you will have CLA sound with a ITB sound..

DOES A LES PAUL SOUND LIKE A STRAT? DOES A FENDER 1960 PRECISION SOUND LIKE A 2011 FENDER... COME ON FOLKS

Will a marshall sound like a fender twin...Recording tools are just like these tools.... I know Ur smarter than this...VINTAGE will never die because like antiques they have a feel .. I am never saying you can't make a record MUCH cheaper and sell millions of records.. I am saying it will ALWAYS sound like a cheaper record..
Old 8th September 2011
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo View Post
I was being a little sarcastic... But honestly CLA is the ONLY mixer to my ears that pays attention to tone and texture and warmth of sound.. There are many GREAT mixers, but none maintain the warmth of CLA..Most GREAT mixers CD's I cannot listen to for more than 2 plays, in my car .. The sound is just too sharp, and thin...

The only reason why I love CLA is when I crank his mixes in my car with my girlfriend, My girl wants to F&^%$k me.. all other CD's is like "just lower that ****" or play the cassette deck.....thats right folks cassette deck...
LOL....quality comedy!
Old 8th September 2011
  #57
run, megalodon
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich
"When you have the big desk in front of you, you feel empowered, to be in control of something. When you have a screen and a mouse and a KB, you feel like.. a telephone operator."
This is ridiculous. I think the only point being made here is that a large part of analog for people like CLA and jindrich is just the feeling of being a big boy. We all know in this day and age that perceptions like that have more to do with insecurity than practical application. The analogy is akin to saying that the sword is more powerful than the pen.
Old 8th September 2011
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo View Post
all other CD's is like "just lower that ****"
Too true, that I can relate to that a lot! - CLA's mixes are smooth and silky.
Old 8th September 2011
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
This is ridiculous. I think the only point being made here is that a large part of analog for people like CLA and jindrich is just the feeling of being a big boy. We all know in this day and age that perceptions like that have more to do with insecurity than practical application.
Yeah CLA is probably just a very insecure person and he is hiding behind his gear as a form of a security blanket. LOL!!!! Give me a freaking break. This thread is sad.
Old 8th September 2011
  #60
run, megalodon
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod View Post
Yeah CLA is probably just a very insecure person and he is hiding behind his gear as a form of a security blanket. LOL!!!! Give me a freaking break. This thread is sad.
I'm not disparaging CLA, I know he does stuff plenty of people like. I don't doubt that his use of analog gear may make his mixes better. But if you look at that statement alone, or more to the point, jindrich's reaction, I don't think there is any merit in it.
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