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For All the U87 Haters
Old 7th September 2011
  #31
Excellent! Great sound, lots of intimacy captured. I like the analog mechanics of the performance. The mix was done before it hit the mic, with the performers.

The U87ai isn't a bad mic at all, but yes, I feel that it's expensive for whatcha get. There are a lot of great brands out there that perform in the same caliber.

On the other hand, we have to be cautious about demanding price decreases. This is when we start seeing an influx of quality brands pumping out low end pieces for mass production, like the TLM102, or the AKG214. Once the companies justify making specific parts or assembly in China, and it becomes accepted by the consumer, it gives them permission to use Chinese manufacturing even more.

For me, it's all about being conscious of where it comes from and balance of cost.
Old 7th September 2011
  #32
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Alex View Post
Excellent! Great sound, lots of intimacy captured. I like the analog mechanics of the performance. The mix was done before it hit the mic, with the performers.

The U87ai isn't a bad mic at all, but yes, I feel that it's expensive for whatcha get. There are a lot of great brands out there that perform in the same caliber.

On the other hand, we have to be cautious about demanding price decreases. This is when we start seeing an influx of quality brands pumping out low end pieces for mass production, like the TLM102, or the AKG214. Once the companies justify making specific parts or assembly in China, and it becomes accepted by the consumer, it gives them permission to use Chinese manufacturing even more.

For me, it's all about being conscious of where it comes from and balance of cost.
Lawson microphone are fully made in USA. and it's tube, and it's cheaper than Neumann U87ai.

but back to the topic,
I don't mind spend more to buy a real Neumann U87 with U67's tube circuit or if they can come out with even better Design.
Old 7th September 2011
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco View Post
I think you're totally missing the point. I for one really like the honesty and immediacy of a single mic with a song like this. It's a very cool presentation if you ask me. I don't miss close micing of the other sources one bit. Refreshing really.

Great job Axelrod. Sure there might be better mics out there for the job, but this is a classic case of the song/performance outweighing Gearslutz geekery. You put it in a good spot and captured a great performance. Mission accomplished.

Robby has a great, classic sounding voice. His delivery reminds me of a young James Taylor at times.
First, it wasn't my intention to be insulting toward axelrod. The recording came out pretty good.

I get the honesty thing. Cool to tear down the walls now and then.

I don't think I am missing anything though. To do this on a song or two...ok, but every one?

It's all taste though right?

There were recordings in circulation like this when I was growing up. They were called "bootlegs" for the most part.

Point a mic at em'.

My point is, a band back then generally would not release a recording like that. Times have changed I guess.

No hard feelings,
john
Old 7th September 2011
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
Darc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip View Post
Whats that V72 doing in the box next to him?
Actually there are two v78 and two 672 in the second enclosure, they were used the session before for tracking some eGTRs and bass, the 672 is truly stellar on certain type of vocals as well.
Old 7th September 2011
  #35
Here for the gear
 

sounds wonderful! i had the video open without watching it and i swore i heard james taylor!
Old 7th September 2011
  #36
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swankdoc's Avatar
 

I like the recording a lot, and thanks for posting.

My vestibular system is all messed up after watching the video. Personally I get honestly dizzy whenever I watch those "moving camera" vids.

Not my cup of tea. I get the whole makes it look live and first person, but my critique would be to tone down the camera movement.

Musically its wonderful. Great talents.
Old 7th September 2011
  #37
Gear Nut
 
Adkins's Avatar
Sure there are better options, but the 87 remains a workorse.
Find it's use everyday.
Old 7th September 2011
  #38
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dualflip's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darc View Post
Actually there are two v78 and two 672 in the second enclosure, they were used the session before for tracking some eGTRs and bass, the 672 is truly stellar on certain type of vocals as well.
Yeap ive tried all of them and they are stellar like you say, i also have siemens 276 and 272, which are equally amazing, just wondering why werent you using it heheh
Old 7th September 2011
  #39
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adam_f's Avatar
Very nice, I dig it!
Old 7th September 2011
  #40
RiF
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RiF's Avatar
Nicse!! I love what U87's do to S's.
Old 8th September 2011
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
First, it wasn't my intention to be insulting toward axelrod. The recording came out pretty good.
I didn't find your tone insulting at all.

Quote:
To do this on a song or two...ok, but every one?
I get what you're saying. I would think it's partly economics and partly a reaction to the over-edited, polished crap that is the norm these days.

Also, in the festival scene (in canada at least), there is a general distrust of artists CDs by music directors. They are sick of hiring acts based on their fabricated CD production and then being disappointed with the live act that can't sing or play in tune etc. I know more than one booking person that will only accept live video as applications for this reason.

Quote:
No hard feelings,
john
none taken on my part.

Z
Old 8th September 2011
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
Darc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip View Post
Yeap ive tried all of them and they are stellar like you say, i also have siemens 276 and 272, which are equally amazing, just wondering why werent you using it heheh
The grace 201 / 1176 chain was the best choice for this particular artist. I didn' t want to color him too much, he has already such a nice grainy voice so my goal was to capture him as real as possible, thus the grace pre. @OP sorry for halfjacking your thread dude...
Old 8th September 2011
  #43
Gear Head
 

Sounds excellent! Don't listen to the haters posting on this thread, it's a great recording for a single room mic!
Old 9th September 2011
  #44
Gear Addict
 
maxy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
Yea! Let's discuss how bad would this recording be if it wasn't done well, and blame the 87 for that...
Axelrod, great recording, good sounding room, great performance! The mic is just a tool. You knew how to use it.

p.s. what "87" resonances?
Awesome!!
Old 9th September 2011
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by syra View Post
You can still hear the "87" resonances creeping through.

WTF?!?!?
Old 9th September 2011
  #46
Gear Head
 

Bravo! Very well done. It's a beautiful song and a great performance. Which is what it's all about just in case anyone forgot. The only comment I'll make about the technical aspect of the recording is that the way it was recorded and the choice made to do it this way served the song very well. Great job all the way around.
Old 9th September 2011
  #47
Lives for gear
 
syra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
Yea! Let's discuss how bad would this recording be if it wasn't done well, and blame the 87 for that...
Yeah... cause the sound of a microphone has very little to do with how a recording comes out...
Old 9th September 2011
  #48
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tekis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowdagger View Post
Sounds excellent! Don't listen to the haters posting on this thread, it's a great recording for a single room mic!
Take out, "for a single room mic"

Outstanding!
Old 9th September 2011
  #49
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Strange Leaf's Avatar
 

Superb. Don't listen to all the haters, that's just the downside with internet and has nothing to do with your U87. Thumps up for the girls too, who knows how to sing in a supportive way.
Old 9th September 2011
  #50
Gear Addict
 
Capstan Cappy's Avatar
 

nice recording , nice old school aproach too, but seriously there are far better (nicer) sounding mics then a U87i or even the "vintage" U87 ones, but in certain situation /combinations it is THE thing to use , but nothing more
Old 10th September 2011
  #51
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I'm always glad when examples are posted. It takes a lot of bravery to do that around this place. I'm not a u87 lover or a hater, but I'll throw in my take after listening-

I'm just so not-into the approach on the first video or the overall sound (no matter if it's youtube). This is the first example, right? I was listening to it at about 2:14 and then finally stopped-
Robby Hecht performs "A Reckoning of Us" official WIGBY episode - YouTube

I found myself pulling this up to compare for overall sonics at about 2:30 in-
PETER, PAUL & MARY ~ The Great Mandella ~ - YouTube

For my tastes, whatever is going on with that op video really hurts my ears. Comparing the two "sonics" above, there's nothing in the first video that would have me running out to buy a u87 any time soon.

I dunno why everybody captures sound nowadays in such a harsh manner. And it's not just the video on this thread. It's rampant! It's almost to the point that "good" is based on how much saliva you can hear on everyone's tongue in the mic.

And then there's that "box" of a sounding room that EVERYONE puts demos up in. Even mic shootouts and dealers hawking mics. Doesn't anyone ANYWHERE have a decent sounding room to record this stuff in?

Anyway, whatever the bar is this week for quality, I think the entire first decade of the 21st century is going to go down in hindsight as being some of the atrocious bunch of sounds ever captured in the history of music. No slam on the people in the video. Singing and playing together is cool. Capturing it on video is brave.

So.. nothing personal. My opinion certainly doesn't count. But so far, I'm still not buying a u87.

And my Lawson L47 doesn't even always work for this kind of stuff either.

I'm still glad this thread is happening though.
Old 10th September 2011
  #52
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
I'm always glad when examples are posted. It takes a lot of bravery to do that around this place. I'm not a u87 lover or a hater, but I'll throw in my take after listening-

I'm just so not-into the approach on the first video or the overall sound (no matter if it's youtube). This is the first example, right? I was listening to it at about 2:14 and then finally stopped-
Robby Hecht performs "A Reckoning of Us" official WIGBY episode - YouTube

I found myself pulling this up to compare for overall sonics at about 2:30 in-
PETER, PAUL & MARY ~ The Great Mandella ~ - YouTube

For my tastes, whatever is going on with that op video really hurts my ears. Comparing the two "sonics" above, there's nothing in the first video that would have me running out to buy a u87 any time soon.

I dunno why everybody captures sound nowadays in such a harsh manner. And it's not just the video on this thread. It's rampant! It's almost to the point that "good" is based on how much saliva you can hear on everyone's tongue in the mic.

And then there's that "box" of a sounding room that EVERYONE puts demos up in. Even mic shootouts and dealers hawking mics. Doesn't anyone ANYWHERE have a decent sounding room to record this stuff in?

Anyway, whatever the bar is this week for quality, I think the entire first decade of the 21st century is going to go down in hindsight as being some of the atrocious bunch of sounds ever captured in the history of music. No slam on the people in the video. Singing and playing together is cool. Capturing it on video is brave.

So.. nothing personal. My opinion certainly doesn't count. But so far, I'm still not buying a u87.

And my Lawson L47 doesn't even always work for this kind of stuff either.

I'm still glad this thread is happening though.
thanks for chiming in. im glad this thread is happening too.
Old 10th September 2011
  #53
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I think the reality of this is-

1. Very cool performance
2. Great control on the musicians part
3. Nice recording for a single mic

BUT in the end-
5. Its edgy and I agree with Syra- its VERY close to not working.

The mic does NOT sound great if you are familiar with other mics like 251s, u47s, C12s, or even contemporary mics like the Brauner VM1.

I think the performance greatly out weighs the mic in this case but the OP did a nice job of managing the sonics of the U87AI.

Still, in relative terms it does nothing to defend against the "haters", as it actually lives up to its reputation.

I also think the youtube upload exacerbates the sonic issues. As a listener, its fine... as an engineer, its still not right.

But in the end, its a cool performance worth listening to.
Old 10th September 2011
  #54
Err!

Quote:
Originally Posted by McDingus View Post
I think the reality of this is-

1. Very cool performance
2. Great control on the musicians part
3. Nice recording for a single mic

BUT in the end-
5. Its edgy and I agree with Syra- its VERY close to not working.

The mic does NOT sound great if you are familiar with other mics like 251s, u47s, C12s, or even contemporary mics like the Brauner VM1.

I think the performance greatly out weighs the mic in this case but the OP did a nice job of managing the sonics of the U87AI.

Still, in relative terms it does nothing to defend against the "haters", as it actually lives up to its reputation.

I also think the youtube upload exacerbates the sonic issues. As a listener, its fine... as an engineer, its still not right.

But in the end, its a cool performance worth listening to.
Yup agreed! about the superlative alternatives but in its way, The U87 is a signature sound of this industry that used to be the standard, so to our old brains it seems right in some odd way.
I think it depends on the individual microphone a bit. I like the old one with the battery compartment best but that can depend on how much snot there is on the capsule.
Old 10th September 2011
  #55
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B View Post
The performance is great. Good job!
I can't say I love the mic here though. Kinda cold and a bit harsh in the upper mids... I owned the U87Ai for awhile and sold it last year cause it just wasn't my thing. I'm not a U87 hater. It's a good mic, but there are just others I generally prefer.
I agree. The guitar and the ladies sound great, I think the 'upfrontness' and transient-intense response of the 87 works very well here.

But I don't like the sound of the voice, it's rather harsh sounding and missing resonance. I'd like to hear more harmonic complexity, especially with a singer that hasn't got a big voice in the traditional sense. (Not a critisism, the voice works very well for this music)

What happens here is something that I often notice on newer recordings of all kinds: The mic puts its 'signature' on the sound in a way that detracts from the music for me. This is often noticable with production that try hard to sound retro and scream 'tube' in a very obvious way and to be honest I almost would prefer that here where the voice is very hard and dry sounding. I mean 'dry' in the harmonic sense, obviously knowning that it wasn't recorded in a dead space of course.

For me, this recording confirms what I always thought about the 87: A great mic that works very well on certain sources but is not the Swiss Army knife that a lot of folks make it out to be. On certain singers it sounds downright harsh and stringent.

And it has nothing to do with the resolution of the audio because we can very well here how the mic responds to the female singers and the guitar.

What I learn from this example is that the U87 is definitely not a must for me. If I need a mic in that sonic ballpark I'd rather go for something like the Sony C-48 even though that wouldn't be my choice here either.
Old 10th September 2011
  #56
Gear Maniac
 

Used to be a hater, but Im loving my u87 since I found there is vintage version which sounds not harsh and very outstanding mid range for vocal. I guess ai could be as good in a well treated room, good pre and some EQ to shape in mix. I just found vintage u87 is easier taken in most application
Old 10th September 2011
  #57
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espasonico's Avatar
 

It´s strange because I have never seen a U87ai with the cable style of a U67. You can have a look at 2:24

Robby Hecht performs "A Reckoning of Us" official WIGBY episode - YouTube

Any ideas ?
Old 10th September 2011
  #58
RiF
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RiF's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmec View Post
(..) but in its way, The U87 is a signature sound of this industry that used to be the standard, so to our old brains it seems right in some odd way. (..)
Yep. To me, a U87 sounds just "right" with very little processing. Maybe part of this "rightness" is, because I heard this sound so many times on numerous records, that it's simply "familiar". Like an SM57 on guitars. Maybe both mics are not the best ones of them all, but definitely the most "familiar sounding" ones.
Old 10th September 2011
  #59
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geareyes's Avatar
Earlier U87's used the swivel mount.For a current U87ai, you simply remove the Tuchel insert within the swivel mount and incorporate an XLR.Or just buy and IC4 currently available from Neumann.

Mike


Quote:
Originally Posted by espasonico View Post
It´s strange because I have never seen a U87ai with the cable style of a U67. You can have a look at 2:24

Robby Hecht performs "A Reckoning of Us" official WIGBY episode - YouTube

Any ideas ?
Old 10th September 2011
  #60
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espasonico's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by geareyes View Post
Earlier U87's used the swivel mount.For a current U87ai, you simply remove the Tuchel insert within the swivel mount and incorporate an XLR.Or just buy and IC4 currently available from Neumann.

Mike
Thanks.
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