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Up to 2k for 251 type sound...help me choose Condenser Microphones
Old 5th September 2011
  #1
Gear Head
 
Zach Adam's Avatar
Up to 2k for 251 type sound...help me choose

Hey... Not expecting it to sound exactly like a 251... But have the same vibe

Contenders:

Tele AR51
Peluso 22251
ADK custom

More ideas?
Please only answer from personal experience...
Thanx for your time
Old 5th September 2011
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Advanced Audio CM12...But it won't cost you anywhere near 2k.....much less.


Kirt Shearer
Old 5th September 2011
  #3
AB3
Lives for gear
 

Agreed. I really liked the Cm12se. Awesome mic. I bet it can win or match shootouts with mics costing 4 times as much or more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbshearer View Post
Advanced Audio CM12...But it won't cost you anywhere near 2k.....much less.


Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios
Old 5th September 2011
  #4
dsl
Gear Nut
 
dsl's Avatar
 

Lawson - L251

Not sure how close it is to the original but it's a beautiful sounding mic:

Lawson L251 Tube Mic
Old 5th September 2011
  #5
Lives for gear
The ADK Custom 251 is great! I'm really impressed with that mic. And you can order it with any of four transformers which will let you tailor the sound further. I have it with a Jensen tranny. Those guys will bend over backwards for you to get your mic dialed in. (and at no charge)
Old 5th September 2011
  #6
Gear Addict
 

this is probably going to go down as gearslutz BS but i tried the AR51 next to the ELAM 251 at the T-Funk booth at AES. used very very isolating headphones they had, and they had brent averill pres. i'm borderline incapable of carrying a tune but i sang some motown to demo the mics. 'sang' if you want to even call it that. hummed.

AR51 was a lot more 'sizzly' than the ELAM for lack of a better term. erm...though i think it still sounded good, even very good. it was sort of more comparable to a C12 than a 251. a cheaper C12. not that it sounded cheap but it didn't sound like their C12.

anyway why don't you call Larry at ADK mics, he's cool, he'll build you a mic that suits you, their top of the line super customized 251 is like under 2 grand, just compare it to an AR51 and send back the one that doesn't do it for you. one of them will.

no comment on peluso. never heard or used one.
Old 5th September 2011
  #7
Gear Head
 
americansun's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Adam View Post
Hey... Not expecting it to sound exactly like a 251... But have the same vibe

Contenders:

Tele AR51
Peluso 22251
ADK custom

More ideas?
Please only answer from personal experience...
Thanx for your time
None of them has a proper CK-12 capsule therefore you won't get a mic with the same vibe, not even close. If you want that you need to get a mic a) with a vintage and original CK-12 capsule or you get close to it mic with a b) Haun capsule (E.g. Lucas CS-1 or Bock 251) or c) a mic with a Tim Campbell CT12 capsule... A 251 vibe as you describe it depends mainly on the proper capsule more than on anything else in the mic. Don't get blinded. A 251 vibe mic cost you serious money everything else is marketing and you will pay your dues until you'll believe it. That's at least how I learned this lesson.
Old 5th September 2011
  #8
Lives for gear
ADK is one of the few boutique manufacturers that makes their own capsules now. And while you won't hear about it there are a number of "well known" builders who are buying these new capsules from ADK. I'm really pleased with the sound of my Custom Shop 251 it's quite good. After that if you are going to spend over $2k my recommendation would be a used Telefunken for just under $6k if you look. You might as well go all the way at that point.
Old 5th September 2011
  #9
bee
Lives for gear
 
bee's Avatar
 

I'd look into the Blackspade UM25. UM25 Microphone
Old 5th September 2011
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bee View Post
I'd look into the Blackspade UM25. UM25 Microphone
This one is GREAT for the $$$$$$....

GREAT
Old 5th September 2011
  #11
Lives for gear
 
ddageek's Avatar
 

The Blackspade with a Tim Campbell Ck12, or a used Soundelux are as close as I can see you getting (have not heard the Blackspade)
Lawson is greAt but not like the real deal!
Old 5th September 2011
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Paul Vnuk Jr.'s Avatar
My favorite microphone in my collection at this moment is my pair of AR-51's.

A beautiful and unique sounding mic with an incredible soundstage, openess and depth of field.

XJ
Old 5th September 2011
  #13
Lives for gear
Lawson l251 is the best with in the range no doubt.
Old 5th September 2011
  #14
Lives for gear
 
toneguru's Avatar
Put out a wanted ad for a used Bock or Soundelux. You might find a cardioid only for $2k used and they sound great.

Also, some of the very old soundelux U95's have that clear smooth 251 tone. I have one and it is a keeper. Its the go to vocal mic at Studio Rev in Culver City.

- Cheers
Old 5th September 2011
  #15
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
for little money: Blue Mouse, Blue Blueberry. Their CK12 capsule copy "B6" is amazingly close to the real thing.
Old 5th September 2011
  #16
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carloff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bee View Post
I'd look into the Blackspade UM25. UM25 Microphone
Sorry the page is full of marketing bull****s which makes me laugh

for example: This type of capsule has historically been very difficult to replicate, but with the help of a well reputed capsule manufacturer in Asia we custom created the CK25 especially for the UM25, based on the original historic Telefunken blueprints. Why my God Telefunken should have blueprints of AKG CK 12? AKG sold them capsule , they never made them ...they even hadn´t machines for it
Capsule manufakturer from ASIA?HAHA 797 Beijing? heh
The porting has been enlarged and the thickness of the backplate slightly enhanced to offset the slightly different resonator design. The result is a split dual backplate design that is edge fed with a resonator that can be made for a more reasonable cost than the original CK12 design without straying too far from the classic 251 tone.
It means in the other words- it has nothing common with CK12 design ...why they even wrote about Telefunken blueprints at all? heh
The headbasket is constructed like those of the historic 251 microphones, not only providing a different filtering response than the UM17 but also making it stand apart from its sibling.
Yes original headbasket had a part of sound and difference to C12. But this UM25 headbasket looks nothing alike if you compare it next to original.Oh my Gosh they talking abou different sound if we compare Flea head with original U47 heads but this headbasket has not even the same size and I will not talk about shape heh

If I would be Telefunken USA I would make trial with them for false advertising and they would make really big money in my opinion.


If you want to have cheap C12/E251 sound, buy ADK 251 with Tim Cambell capsule, or AR 51... or whatever where is Haune / who has REAL AKG blueprints/ or Tim Cambell capsule,
Or buy old AKG 414 EB with original CK12.. the sound will be still closer than any chinese clone
Old 6th September 2011
  #17
Lives for gear
Ha ha!! I didn't even read that closely.. Tell them like it is Carloff.
Old 6th September 2011
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Carloff and fanboy... At no point in any of the text you quoted do they claim to be building an exact replica of the CK12, a replica of the 251 headbasket, or a replica of any part of the 251 mic. Guess you missed the part where it says 'inspired by'.

The part you write about the headbasket is even funnier: do you see where it says 'sibling' and then 'UM17'? The sibling they are referring to is the UM17, not the C12. The different filtering response of the UM25's headbasket is different to the UM17, not the C12.

That's 0 for 2.

The same mic is available with a Tim Campbell capsule, which some of us are actually excited about. But i guess because of the headbasket being 3 and a half degrees off from the exact 1951 design and not painted in VienerHochChrome, you'll never even try it out...
Old 6th September 2011
  #19
Lives for gear
I hope you're not calling me "boy" or "fanboy".

You've got a lot of balls to complain about some guy (whose second language is English) "attacking" a product when "I think" all he was trying to do was point out the hyperbole of marketing speak in a "comical" way, and you in turn are going to make a fairly serious, aggressive remark towards me - calling me "boy" in a derisive manner. That will get your teeth knocked out where ever you live. I hope you're just having a bad day. I don't know either of you, if there's something else going on here leave me out.

As far as companies making products sound as glamorous as possible that's marketing and sometimes it is funny when you break it down. As enamored as you may be by Oliver, Tab Funkenwerk, Neumann, Andreas, or any other darling of the gear world, they're not any better human beings than the rest of the guys trying to grind out a living. And their marketing speel isn't somehow beyond reproach in comparison to a humble ADK simply because they fulfill your aesthetic of the "boutique brand". Why don't you start by showing some compassion to the human beings here before you worry about running around "protecting" some company. I didn't hear Carloff slam their product anywhere. You're completely off base if you think there's no merit to his claims that microphone companies in general (like most brands) spin a lot of pretty talk because they know we like it. Every single one of them sprinkles a little bit of extra spit & polish into their product descriptions.
I see nothing wrong with Carloff pointing out the obvious, if he had slammed their product I would not have condoned his comments. I see them in this context as largely harmless and nothing that's going to trigger some "witch hunt" you need to take upon yourself to "police". He's just some guy as lonely as you with your 2,347 posts in three years, get off him. In fact I suspect the majority of guys reading this thread realized his comments weren't meant to be taken literally and "gave him a pass". We didn't need you to spell it out for us genius at his expense, nor make it pointedly personal. If he does have an agenda I didn't know that or "catch it".

I think we all realize it's probably a very good sounding and well made mic. And if you had just ignored his harmless comment it would have been generally overlooked. I think Oliver has an excellent reputation and I would actually be interested in trying the mic. I respect the opinion of the guys who have recommended it here.
Old 6th September 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
 

for that price- ADK
Old 6th September 2011
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Zach (OP), as you can see from the direction of conversation, eventually the little black pearl of wisdom will fall out that only original 251s can be called 251s and that nothing made within the last 30 or so years will fulfill your requirement, and then conversation will veer further, and you will be told to get a used Manley Reference Cardioid, and the conversation will go on for another 5 pages and accomplish nothing.
Old 6th September 2011
  #22
REX
Gear Maniac
 

Chris Lago and Dr. Luke both use The Manley Ref
Old 6th September 2011
  #23
Lives for gear
 
carloff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasprouch View Post
The part you write about the headbasket is even funnier: do you see where it says 'sibling' and then 'UM17'? The sibling they are referring to is the UM17, NOT the C12. The different filtering response of the UM25's headbasket is different to the UM17, NOT the C12. Blatant example of failing to keep statements in context, and even worse, not understanding what you're reading.

That's 0 for 2. Seeing as your drivel was obviously driven by some sort of agenda and completely off the mark, maybe Blackspade should think of 'making trial' with you???

The other part you completely missed is that this same mic is available with a Tim Campbell capsule, which some of us might actually be excited about. But i guess because of the headbasket being 3 and a half degrees off from the exact 1951 design and not painted in VienerHochChrome, you'll never even try it out...

Maybe i'm the only one, but wouldn't it be a novelty to have a thread where somebody doesn't piss on a product they've never even heard, let alone seen... I realise it's the interwebz, but seriously, how hard would it be?
If my English is enough I can read they talking about 251 and UM17
The headbasket is constructed like those of the historic 251 microphones, not only providing a different filtering response than the UM17 but also making it stand apart from its sibling.
The basket is one of the reasons why historical C12 and E251 sounds a bit different. And why E251 has the typical sound.And Im sorry -the basket of UM25 looks nothing alike..Can I see when I wrote something about sibilling?I have only pasted whole sentence of the article nothing more..
And sorry if somebody writes about " original Telefunken blueprints" of AKG CK12 it seems at least a bit funny agenda.. I would like to know what Fletcher says about it ...but on the end is nothing than funny "Big Mouth" marketing.Which quite keeping me out from this product altough it could be nice mic .(and honestly I have enough vintage microphones to not to buy something like that)
..And kasprouch -your post was even funnier than this marketing heh Did you even know what I was talking about? That AKG C12 and E251 has a different sound because of basket (next to other factors) .Have you ever had the chance to try it next to other?I own at least one of them . Might be you could spend your homework and instead of writing 2, 347 posts on Gearslutz in 3 years you could listening differences between mics and earn from music for living as Im doing for last 15 years..


Yotonic -thank you!


Manely Ref is good choice..sounds nothing alike E251 but it is good mic for modern pop.
Old 6th September 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
And btw I remember JJ Audio makes a C12 and an 251 inspired mic that you can order with a Tim Campbell capsule as well. I never heard them but given that they use a TK capsule, a very similar headbasket and electronics, I think it is safe to say they are what the OP is looking for.
Old 6th September 2011
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by carloff View Post
And sorry if somebody writes about " original Telefunken blueprints" of AKG CK12 it seems at least a bit false agenda.. I would like to know what Fletcher says about it...
There's no need to have a false agenda. Who knows, they might have actually made a good new sounding capsule that you like. Considering how hard people work to build these products, the rest is common decency, that's all.

OP: +1 for the JJ Audio, and ADK recommendations. If you can hold out a bit, i'd wait to see what the UM25 is like as well. Apologies for the distractions.

Take care.
Old 6th September 2011
  #26
Lives for gear
 
carloff's Avatar
Yes could be nice capsule - I didnt talk about this--but I highly doubt about existency of Telefunken "blueprints" in this process of making capsule as Telefunken never made AKG capsules. It is all
Take care .
BTW my post number 1000 8 years GS ! Champagne
Old 6th September 2011
  #27
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illacov's Avatar
 

If it uses a good Chinese CK12 inspired capsule, a NOS 6072a (GE 5 Star Black Plate Triple Mica) or a kick ass 12at7, Tab Funkenwerk T14 output transformer, real 251 circuit, with an Axon output coupling cap or better and a super de duper PSU then you're in the money.

I have heard great things about the Blackspade UM25 and knowing the folks who make Blackspade mics are using Tab Funkenwerk's output transformers and headamps is a move in the right direction for obtaining the tone you're after.

With my ears, I don't listen for national origin, I listen to final product.

The sad part is, if you actually use the REAL 251 or C12 circuit these capsules from China DO fit the part.

A real 251 is a plate follower circuit, with a small degree of filtering to roll off a slight amount of high end, it uses self bias, a T14 transformer, the proper tube and man if it doesn't sound effin awesome.

The ADK GK12 is one bad ass capsule btw, after hearing it in the Dutch 251, like sweet creme brule. A pure stroke of genius!

Peace
Illumination
Old 6th September 2011
  #28
Damn. Wrestle Mic Mania, here we go.

The CK12 Hulkster is pissed, and is going to slam Andre the Giant Head-grill, but can he? Really? Ding Ding Ding. This is an epic match up ladies and mic experts. Who will win!? The crowd goes wild! Hear the roar from the reflection-less anechoic chamber!!!!!

HAAWWWWHHAAWWWHHAWWWWAAAHHHHHAAHAHAHHAH!!!!!!

Read this like the Micro Machines Dude; WMM is sponsored by blogging for mic's, a forum, where monkeys throw feces at each other for sport. You can read about it in our Marketing blurb.

------

Following ON TOPIC, which has been requested by the original poster, so as to stay relavent towards his question, [which needs more qualifying from people who might want to help him] is that I really thought the Blackspade UM25 [with the custom manufactured CK25 capsule, and NOS Tele 800 series tube] was downright "exceptional" to my ear drums. I had no problem with the capsule or the head basket on this mic. The directional character of the UM25 was pleasing and similar to what I have experienced with vintage offerings. The UM25 has a VERY low noise, beautiful, flattering brightness without hype/brittleness, and crystal clear pristine but fluid depth that ABSOLUTELY resembles the tone of a 251 to me. However, not so edgy in the upper mid range [hyped], as other 251 types sound. It might not sound identical, and it was not supposed to, nor was it supposed to be an exact clone, replica, or whatever. Just a microphone inspired by this pedigree. I personally find all the spec-spec talk-talk and marketing nonsense for the birds. I just want an "exceptional" sounding microphone similar to the ELAM/c12 sonic quality, for a price I can afford. So I am sold on the mic, personally, as I tried it out over a few days and REALLY liked it.
Old 6th September 2011
  #29
Gear Nut
 
ZMcNee's Avatar
I also own a pair of AR-51s and love them.

Telefunken also takes very good care of their customers and the power supply and locking xlr style cable are awesome.
Old 6th September 2011
  #30
Lives for gear
I just wanted to quickly mention that I received a nice private message from Kasprouch apologizing for calling me "boy". He briefly explained to me mitigating factors behind the little flare up here and it's all behind us, I'm fine with the guy. And I apologize to anyone else who had to waste their valuable time reading our brief veer off topic. All good here now.

I do agree with Langston that the new capsule on the ADK GK12 sounds great, but the only reason quite honestly that I own the ADK is because of price. I have no ties to ADK it's just a mic I happened to stumble upon from another members insistence here and it works great. Unfortunately I made the mistake of trying a Telefunken 251 E recently and now I can't sleep at night. I was just so blown away by that mic it was ridiculous. Any of the mics discussed here today will do a good job for you and I feel the prices are fair and reasonable. Especially now that I realize I am doomed to the grip of the Telefunken
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