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hardware vs plugins users of both only please Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 28th April 2011
  #31
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I have both of most your list and I can say their is a big diff. to Me
Hardware SMOKES the plugs
But I still use both
Old 28th April 2011
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian View Post
Let's put it like this. If you were to A/B between the hardware and plugs you would quickly realize that the plugs aren't even close to the real deal. Is it worth it to spend the thousands needed for each piece? That's up to you. You can certainly make a fine sounding mix using all plugs, but it will never sound like a mix that uses the real hardware. At the end of the day you have to make the decision as to whether it is worth it for you and your art.
exactly
Old 29th April 2011
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaka View Post
yeah but its not equitable to put a bad performer with hardware and a good one with plugin. for the song no i didnt hear it what was the song name? its sur we still get some good song lately but not as often as before.
Thankz for having a good out look on this,the song is called "tired" I found it on youtube.

I agree they sound different,but mp3's beat out dvd audio for the same reason Plugins "are"getting used more.its sad because we all could've got raises with higher medium prices.
Old 29th April 2011
  #34
Gear Addict
 

I'm somone who's made the transition fairly recently to owning my own outboard in my home studio (I've used outboard before in commercial studios).

I actually think about this issue sometimes and it's kind of a dangerous road to go trundling down, everybody has their opinion.

Firstly I think a really big part of outboard "adding" to your sound can come down to the fact that the circuits actually make your sound source "sound" different, there is also minute gain changes even if you're properly calibrating,
Of course it's easy when you don't calibrate levels and gain stage to thinkg whatever's louder is better.

My main observation since owning really beautiful bits of outboard is that I just don't use certain plugins anymore, like a previous poster said I don't use compressor plugins, but I do use limiter plugins.
Especially EQs, now that I have experienced really high end outboard eqs at home I just don't even bother with digital EQ unless it's for a basic low cut or something easy,
They just don't sound right!

For my money and my personal opinions I think it comes down to the time it takes me to get the sound I want vs the fact that some plugins just don't seem to do the same thing my outboard does.
Since i've been using outboard at home I haven't been like "wooow 3D, warmth, depth..." etc, I've just noticed that I have the sound I want fast, and sure maybe I could pull a comprable mix ITB,
But I know what to expect from my gear.

Also totally agree with the person who said their all different tools for different jobs,
I will say though with certainty that I would never go back to plugs only at home, and I wouldn't even consider using a plugin compressor or EQ on my software vocal channel, nope..
But like I was saying I don't seem to need to anymore, the outboard gets me my sound right away as I'm tracking, from there it's just levels,
Whereas with plugs it was always tinkering, always tweaking.

Anyway enough from me.
Old 29th April 2011
  #35
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveschizoid View Post
have you ever compared the Fatso vs the emulation? I spent a couople of hours doing that one day, and I found the difference insignificant. It's really that good.
When even people like Shipley are saying that, you have to really think twice before dismissing something as just, "a digital copy".

I have had a similar experience when comparing the:

Softube-Valley People Dynamite and original hardware, it is really close (even fatter), and really usable. A go to on snare!

SkNote GTS-39 and Gates Sta-Level, This plugin is still being tweaked a bit, but it has a good bit of the original's mojo and weight on bass. It really did that "solid bass that really sits right with the kick in the mix" thing like the hardware. That's exactly what I needed it for! Definitely one of the best new plugins out there, and one of the least expensive!

That said, for the most part, I love hardware and use it a bunch.

Old 29th April 2011
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysw View Post
But like I was saying I don't seem to need to anymore, the outboard gets me my sound right away as I'm tracking, from there it's just levels,
Whereas with plugs it was always tinkering, always tweaking.
Which is exactly why I like to capture what I hear for the project in the beginning. Keeps it clean and simple. Like good mic placement, good room and a good performance.
Old 29th April 2011
  #37
Registered User
 

Hardware needs ADDA conversion if you are ITB. Sometimes its worth going ADDA path and sometimes not even with the best conversion out there .

I have Thermionic phoenix as my mix bus comp , this is amazing compressor really and there is nothing in the box that sounds even close to it but sometimes the R-comp on the mix bus in the box is just better tool cos there is no ADDA conversion or whatever....

Do yourself a favor and try every tool you can , plugins and hardware . Work with it for couple of months and you'll get the picture .
Old 29th April 2011
  #38
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KevWind's Avatar
MY experience with hardware vs plugs, is quite limited so I'll speak to only what I have and use.
First, A disclaimer: I record only myself and mostly acoustic guitar and vocals. So what I offer is related only to my needs and tastes.

Going into my PT HD Native Rig I have a nice outboard mic pre in the form of an A Designs MP2A however, the only processing hardware I have currently is the Bricasti M7.

Over all, I do prefer the M7 over the plugin verbs I have. The plugs I have are course the bundled DIGI plugs and the WAVES Platinum Native. I have used the Renaissance Reverb quite a bit prior to the M7 and was getting usable sounds with the plate for example on vocals. I have just started playing with the True Verb which IMO is quite good and certainly usable and if used sparingly is a fairly decent room verb. I would say If I did not have the M7 I would be fine with these two plugs.

However I have to say that one thing I have noticed is ,It seems with M7 I can use less of the effect and still have it contribute to the sound. For example I have been using the M7's "Sunset Chamber" on my vocals and am really liking it. It's as if there is the feeling of more presence of space, but less noticeable effect, if that makes sense? Any way thats my thoughts on the OP
Old 29th April 2011
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeebangs View Post
ok i know this has been a question for a while now but lets narrow it down for all who have used both ima list some peaces of gear an you guys compare.

au 1176 , hardware vs plugin ?

la2a , hardware vs plugin ?

ssl bus comp, hardware vs plugin

ahh what the hel you get the point how close do you think hardware is vs sotware ? for instan is it worth spending 2 to 5 grand for one peace pf rack gear instead a whiole bundle of plugs ?
there is no use in reading the replies. if you have the plugs...rent out the real deal and compare for yourself. everything else is false knowledge. just try it. there are lots of rental shops.
Old 29th April 2011
  #40
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my experience-

i have made great use of 1176 and Purple MC77 hardware at various studios.

i find the Waves CLA 1176 plugs to be great plugins, and very much in the ballpark. once in a while the blue stripe 1176 plug beats out my MC77 hardware for lead vocals.

i haven't made much use of hardware LA-2As, even when they've been available to me. just not my vibe.

the waves CLA-2A seems to have a slight presence boost that is not at all in line with my experience with the hardware units.

having said that, i do think the waves is a good sounding plug, but for whatever reason i gravitate more to the LA-3A plug.

have not used the UAD plugs so can't comment.
Old 29th April 2011
  #41
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ok...a personal view. i can do about 3db of compression on the waves la2a plug without sounding like a cheap plugin. on my hardware i can do about 18db and it still sounds amazing. thats the difference to me mostely.


same goes for the waves 1176...
Old 30th April 2011
  #42
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Not to state the obvious but isn't this like comparing apples to oranges?

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Old 30th April 2011
  #43
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T_R_S's Avatar
If it sounds good use it ....
Old 30th April 2011
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
ok...a personal view. i can do about 3db of compression on the waves la2a plug without sounding like a cheap plugin. on my hardware i can do about 18db and it still sounds amazing. thats the difference to me mostely.


same goes for the waves 1176...

Same with Tube-Tech CL1b vs Softube CL1B...
Old 30th April 2011
  #45
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0 and 1's cannot sound like real electronic circuits...

i just tested the api 550a's from waves and my real ones.

its just like night and day. i mean the sw reproduces the characteristics well but its not like the real thing.
Old 30th April 2011
  #46
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The dman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
ok...a personal view. i can do about 3db of compression on the waves la2a plug without sounding like a cheap plugin. on my hardware i can do about 18db and it still sounds amazing. thats the difference to me mostely.


same goes for the waves 1176...
Agreed. The software folds up while the hardware say thank you can I have some more
Old 30th April 2011
  #47
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damn those emulations! Why it is the only thing that comes to your minds when talking about digital processing? There're plenty original digital processing tools that works awesome musically, and even more, which have no analogs in analogue world! Yep, there're lot more garbage in plugins area, but in real world we have behringer too )))
Old 30th April 2011
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
ok...a personal view. i can do about 3db of compression on the waves la2a plug without sounding like a cheap plugin. on my hardware i can do about 18db and it still sounds amazing. thats the difference to me mostely.


same goes for the waves 1176...

+1

I actually like the Glue more then my hardware SSl, clean and punchy as hell but... For instruments that are compressed really hard, like vocals, bass etc then the hardware does wonders to the sound. Smooths out the highend, gives the source a more rounded sound, and fatter transients.
Old 30th April 2011
  #49
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeebangs View Post
ok i know this has been a question for a while now but lets narrow it down...



tutt


None of these threads have ever come to a conclusion. If you want the hardware but cannot afford it and don`t want to wait while you save, then get a plug in. Its that simple.

There are good plugs out there and just like a guy with a room full of outboard has his go to pieces for lead vocals, you`ll have plugs that you will turn to for the same thing.

Going back to sleep now...
Old 1st May 2011
  #50
Gear maniac
 

Is so many people still have all this great sounding hardware,why does today music sound like garbage?

Some of it is ok but really isn't as good as the old stuff, so on that note save some money because what's missing in todays music is still....well missing.

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Old 1st May 2011
  #51
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How about a good high-end plugins vs a bad low-end hardware?
Old 1st May 2011
  #52
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Using outboard gear helps me have fun at work and damn it if that doesn't make my mixes sound just a little bit better.

No Wup

No OS upgrades

No ilok

No _
Old 1st May 2011
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcc449 View Post
How about a good high-end plugins vs a bad low-end hardware?
I'll take the plugins every time in that comparison. There is nothing worse than bad low end hardware. Don't get me started!!! heh
Old 1st May 2011
  #54
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Having mixed ITB for the last 10 years with only software and finally switched to a hybrid setup, the verdict is simple for me: Plugin comps suck. They are lifeless, have no depth, or feel to them.

For example, I just got a stereo pair of LA3As last week. After A/B testing them on a number of sources it was almost laughable how bad the plugins sounded next to the hardware (both the waves and ua versions). There is just this depth to the hardware and tone that the plugins can't hit.

Hardware to me, almost has a soul. It is a musical instrument that can be played. Like, for example, the 2 bus comp. The plug versions all sound flat to me. No matter what settings, it is all blah. Like I said, i've been using them for 10 years daily so I know the sound well. My RMS SSC hardware comp has a feel to it when I mix. It brings everything to life and depending on how you hit it, it makes everything gel and pop so beautifully. No plugin to date can do that that I have tried.

I look at it like this, go big or go home. No small time. Save your $, get the tools you need to do your job and be competitive.

The downside is that this hardware addiction is destroying my life and bank account
Old 2nd May 2011
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound View Post
I'll take the plugins every time in that comparison. There is nothing worse than bad low end hardware. Don't get me started!!! heh
I don't think ANYONE would disagree on that.

Still... good hardware are in a galaxy far far away better than plugins... for their purpose of course.

Some plugins don't emulate anything and bring something new... sonnox are great... many others are great.

Anyone there has a link of audio comparison? I always enjoy those...
Old 2nd May 2011
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adura View Post
I don't think ANYONE would disagree on that.

Still... good hardware are in a galaxy far far away better than plugins... for their purpose of course.

Some plugins don't emulate anything and bring something new... sonnox are great... many others are great.

Anyone there has a link of audio comparison? I always enjoy those...
I hear you. As far as plugins not directly emulating something and being great at their own thing, the PSP Old Timer is amazing at that as well. I love to see developers come up with something new, and at least somewhat original sometimes. Here is a link to a plugin-hardware comparison of the first Gates Sta-Level clone I know of, and it is great: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/6583302-post130.html

Old 2nd May 2011
  #57
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How about we just leave hardware out of the question, as it's an entirely different thing. How 'bout good plugs vs bad plugs?...i think that's more relevant. I'll start by saying Abbey road and Sony are my only fav's.

(hmm....blow up doll vs a real woman...what do you prefer?)
Old 2nd May 2011
  #58
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u b k's Avatar
 

Is anyone willing to pay 2, 3, or even 4 thousand dollars for a plugin that can only be used on one track or buss per mix?

It happens all day everyday with hardware.

I can't help but notice the complete lack of threads started by, and filled with, people struggling with their console and/or racks of expensive outboard.

Come to think of it, I don't see an endless stream of people complaining about their hardware killing the depth or the tone of their tracks, or wondering if their summing buss is collapsing the width of their itb mix.

Here's what I'm really waiting for: someone who uses hardware on the non-essential stuff like canned shaker loops, but when it's time to work the love on that money vocal, bust out the 1176 emulation baby!

I suppose it could be mass delusion, somehow there are legions of guys doubting and struggling with one format but not the other, and the only reason for that is some kind of collective denial among owners of expensive boxes. But you'd think in this age, this era of ubiquitous information and free-flowing ideas, that a bubble as gigantic and monolithic as that would've burst long before now if it had no basis in reality, no legs to stand on.

Plugins work. Hardware sounds amazing. Plugins can make things fit. Hardware makes things sound and feel better. Plugins alter spectral content. Hardware can lift things up and pull them forward out of the speakers.

That last quality, the ability to lift sound up and make it come at me, make it physically hit my body... I've never heard a plugin do that. I pay good money for that, and you can be damn sure if I don't hear it I demand my money back. Fortunately, that almost never happens, we live in a golden age of hardware.

Now, making music that's worthy of all these amazing boxes... THERE'S the real challenge.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 2nd May 2011
  #59
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narcoman's Avatar
 

great post Greg!!!! Poetry! heh
Old 2nd May 2011
  #60
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Adura's Avatar
 

"Plugins work. Hardware sounds amazing. Plugins can make things fit. Hardware makes things sound and feel better. Plugins alter spectral content. Hardware can lift things up and pull them forward out of the speakers."

PERFECT description.
That sentence should be in all discussions about pluginsXhardware.
Gregory Scott rules!!!
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