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hardware vs plugins users of both only please
Old 18th July 2013
  #331
Lives for gear
 
Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 

^^^Man, those are crazy deadlines...it takes 10-15min just to get a good tracking chain in line because that's how long it takes to warm up the gear and refine the levels...for example, today, I'm going to go home, turn on all my power conditioners(about 4), power up my tube mic, my computer, get a session open and open up some tracks with some default routing and grouping that I like for the kind of session it is, patch in a preamp, compressor or 2, my eq, etc...then i'll play music for 10min or so in the room, but mute my input on the daw so I don't get feedback. That way, when my artist comes to sing, the levels I'm getting when they hit the mic are what I keep and 10 or 15min later once they're not fresh anymore, I still have takes from the beginning of the session that are usable and I don't have to do any level adjustments. Cold transformers don't tend to round as much as when they're nice and hot, so hotter levels are the norm when the gear is cold...all about consistency for me....cold gear just reacts a little differently...and not in a way that's better or more musical than gear that's been on and passing signal through. Are you usually in a place where you can just move quickly on these tasks? Do you travel to the studio when this guys calls or are you usually already at your studio with all the gear turned on and working on something anyway?
Old 20th July 2013
  #332
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod View Post

There is no way to judge how a tool is going to work for you without spending time with it in the context of your own personal workflow. I think Slate offers a free trial right? Download the darn thing and if it works for you and is worth the asking price then buy the damn thing. If not, congrats you just saved some money on a plugin. Now you can go spend 10x that much on some hardware and when that doesn't magically make your mixes sound great then we can move on from "Analog Sucks" and "Digital Sucks" to a new thread titled "You Suck".

Ha! Awesome.

Cheers,
Steven
Old 20th July 2013
  #333
Lives for gear
We have racks full of hardware here + Waves Mercury, Slate, Kush, Sonnox, etc. etc. - they all have their place. As a general rule we use the hardware to track and plugs to mix, usually with some hardware. Depending on time and mood we'll pull out the 'big' hardware guns (or not) come mix time. There are some plugs that i actually think do nail the hardware or get scary close (to our own hardware), some plugs that don't and there are some plugs that no hardware can touch (eg. Paul Frindle's, Pro Audio DSP - DSM).

We do use hardware verbs because we have them + some hardware come mix time because we have it, but truth be told, most hardware is off come mix time (eg. Pultecs on while tracking, Pultecs off while mixing); and that does not mean it cannot be done with plugs only. Have never tried it but i'm not at all surprised when i hear great product done all-ITB.

Why does it always have to be analog vs. digital? i don't know of one well respected pro that doesn't use both: whatever happens to be in the rack + his/her favorite plugs, etc. There are practical pros and cons with each, we all know them, they have been discussed on GS endlessly.

I say Empire Prod and Jules make some GS t-shirts. If you all do i'll buy a couple. :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod View Post
Now go spend 10x that much on some hardware and when that doesn't magically make your mixes sound great we can move from "Analog Sucks" and "Digital Sucks" to a new thread titled "You Suck"
Old 23rd September 2013
  #334
Lives for gear
 
camus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
You don't have to imagine! Mark Linett did the Pet Sounds reissue all ITB using our VCC console emulation plugin set to the "Neve" setting. It sounds amazing. I'm not saying that it's solely due to the plugin.. i mean.. the band is pretty decent and Mark is extremely talented. He's also a great guy who has some wonderful stories. Two NAMM shows ago Mark was a special guest at our booth and he played the individual tracks of some of the Pet Sounds songs, and it was a very special moment.

Cheers,
Steven
The Pet Sounds stereo boxset was released in 1996 and was mixed through an old Western tube console.

Maybe you're thinking about the recent Smile reissue. Honestly to my ears, it sounds nowhere near as good.
Old 30th August 2015
  #335
Here for the gear
 

Hi guys very useful information

What would you choose to use?

Roland Edirol EQ hardware with 16Bands
vs
GEQ64 Waves Audio EQ with 32Bands

with a same preset
-
-
-
Thanks
Old 30th August 2015
  #336
Lives for gear
 
dabigfrog's Avatar
 

we use hardware at tracking and a combo of hardware and plug ins including the UAD2 and some Steven Slate during mixing. You have to use what you have and use your ears to find what combos work best for you. of course not everyone is in a position to A/b the real hardware. most of the time, for us at our studio, the hardware beats the software… but you can't argue the ease and ability of digital to get you close. YMMV.
Old 3rd September 2015
  #337
Gear Nut
 
YouCantHear.me's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik View Post
I just don't understand the arguing. Whatever plugins model, well, it's your job to decide, with how you work, whether the plugin will work, or whether you really need to spend more on hardware.

Those of you claiming plugins don't sound good, are you claiming you personally cannot get a good mix with them...because that should certainly not be true, just ask Tchad and Serban.

I just don't understand why the arguing and the going back and forth when there have been album with songs both itb and lfac on the same record. It's almost commonplace at this point. Just use what you like. Yes, I use outboard and yes, I love the way it sounds, but I personally get more control out of plugins and I don't have to move any knobs on plugs once I set them. I open up another mix and it's like I have a whole other rack of gear to use.

I'm just trying to rationlize why the going back and forth. State your opinion, your pros and cons, what it means to you, whatever...but why the slandering. I'm happy Slate and co are doing what they're doing, if you don't agree, just state your preference, but don't attack. It's just not cool.
I feel like it should be considered that tchad and serban are mixing songs tracked with amazing gear by amazing engineers. That makes a huge difference. Often times the files they are mixing have been through amazing hardware units in tracking.

I was a plugin guy forever. I'd use hardware on my master bus, but nothing else. Recently I've bought a lot of outboard gear. It has completely changed my world. That being said, if I didn't use the plugs forever and know exactly what I want when mixing, I might not be able to tel this difference. Maybe it's just 5%.. But that last 5% is what separates good from great. I have no interest in making good recordings.

My vintage la2a is magic. And I'll give an example of exactly how.. I had a mix with an la2a on my lead vocal. I got my vintage unit and patched it in. Sounded great - not earth shatteringly different, but better without a doubt. I realized the 2nd verse of the song didn't have enough energy. Was thinking I was going to have to track a new instrument/part to liven up the 2nd verse. Then I realized - because of an overlapping vocal, my 2nd verse vocal was on a separate track and wasn't running through the real la2a (and just to be clear, I matched volume on the plug vs hardware). After patching in the la2a to the 2nd verse vocal, the song had exactly the energy that was missing. The thing honestly sounds like magic. Is it subtle? Yeah I guess. But it is magic nonetheless

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't think hardware is better then you're trying to sell something, or you haven't done this long enough to hear the importance of those final couple % points.

Do I love plugs? Absolutely. Use them all the time. Will never stop. They are amazing tools. But for the most important parts of mixes, lead voc, bus compression, eq, etc, there is absolutely without a shadow of a doubt a major difference between plugins and hardware, and buying more hardware has given me the sound I have always wanted
Old 4th September 2015
  #338
Lives for gear
 
Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouCantHear.me View Post
I feel like it should be considered that tchad and serban are mixing songs tracked with amazing gear by amazing engineers. That makes a huge difference. Often times the files they are mixing have been through amazing hardware units in tracking.

Do I love plugs? Absolutely. Use them all the time. Will never stop. They are amazing tools. But for the most important parts of mixes, lead voc, bus compression, eq, etc, there is absolutely without a shadow of a doubt a major difference between plugins and hardware, and buying more hardware has given me the sound I have always wanted
Yes, Tchad and Serban do get to mix material tracked with excellent gear. So do I. I do agree La2a's are killer on vocals. I prefer the STA Level myself, but won't buy one being that I get a great sound with my vocal chain and find I don't need much outside of plugs and my 2buss to get the finished sound I'm happy with. Well over 2 years after my post you felt so compelled to quote, I'm still using mostly plugins for mixdown, running my mixes through a pair of 1073 clones usin,g a killer 2buss comp and tracking with even better gear and even better treatment of both my live and mixing rooms. Would I pickup more analog gear for mixdown if it was necessary...sure...but it's not necessary for neither my clients or the way I prefer to work, especially if it would require more recall on the backend. I'd say for the most part we're on the same page. Use what you like and what works for you. Simple. Cheers
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