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Cameras instead of a window?
Old 19th January 2012
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
About 20 years ago I went on a luxury cruise ship, the Crystal Harmony.
Ha! 20 years ago I was the bass player on the Crystal Harmony!

Three freakin' months of sailing around the Caribbean, through the Panama Canal, & up the Mexican Riviera, playing "Girl From Ipanema" and "New York, New York" four times a night, seven nights a week.

Ah, memories...
Old 20th January 2012
  #62
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Drumsound's Avatar
I'm really interested in having a windowless control room. I hate the idea of one or tow people sitting behind the glass while the talent, who is already intimidated, has them staring at them. My room now has the window on the side, and that may happen in my next place, but I'd kind of like to try to have the musicians no thinking about the control room existing. I'd like video to see what's happening out there if I need to, but I want the musicians to just PLAY.
Old 12th February 2012
  #63
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I'm very excited to see this thread as I have thought about this solution for my studio for the longest time! Glad I am not the only one that felt this way to go to a windowless route. Sure they windows give you that prestige studio look that most people are familiar to, but I've never been too keen on it personally. The only thing with the cameras is s that youn will need to have a good set up so there won't be any audio & video delay, especially when you're trying to cue the artist pre-recording.
Old 13th February 2012
  #64
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Come on Guys.... Has anyone used wireless IP Camera's yet?

I wanna find out if there are any interference problems with noise or RF from the use of such camera's... anybody??? PLEASE????

THANKS
Old 14th February 2012
  #65
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No interference at all.
Old 15th February 2012
  #66
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Thansk Jack

Jack,

Are you currently running wireless IP camera's in your studio? If so what brand and are you running 100% digital or a hybrid studio?

Thanks

Steve
Old 15th February 2012
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRockStudioTec View Post
Jack,

Are you currently running wireless IP camera's in your studio? If so what brand and are you running 100% digital or a hybrid studio?

Thanks

Steve
No, I'm using wired analog cameras with Sony ccd inside (see https://www.gearslutz.com/board/6461212-post48.html). We decided on wired cameras because it was cheaper and very good image quality. We also had all the necessary coaxial cabling already in the walls so no install hassle. But I'm also using wifi connection from control room to tracking for musicians to access the net via wifi router with their IPhone/Ipad to check tablatures and whatnot. Wireless IP camera use the same technology. Though, I get mad interferences from cell phones when they get near the Focal monitors. But it's from cell phone network, not wifi connectivity.
Old 15th February 2012
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
Ha! 20 years ago I was the bass player on the Crystal Harmony!

Three freakin' months of sailing around the Caribbean, through the Panama Canal, & up the Mexican Riviera, playing "Girl From Ipanema" and "New York, New York" four times a night, seven nights a week.

Ah, memories...
Remember the "Manila Trio"? They would prowl the ship doing songs. Several times they played in the dining room. They also took requests. I recall the Captain gave me a bad look when I had them play "La Cucaroacha".
Old 16th February 2012
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Remember the "Manila Trio"? They would prowl the ship doing songs. Several times they played in the dining room. They also took requests. I recall the Captain gave me a bad look when I had them play "La Cucaroacha".
Oh sure! Those guys were funny. Smoked pot 24/7. They also turned me on to "bird", a rather anonymous and non-descript deep-fried poultry-like main course available in the crew mess but rarely offered to the non-Phillipino crew members. Nobody could tell me what it was; they all just referred to it as "bird". My guess was seagull.
Old 16th February 2012
  #70
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Thanks Jack

I assumed as much but wanted to verify BEFORE I spent a ton of money.

Thanks Again!
Old 16th February 2012
  #71
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I remodeled my home studio recently and built a booth and framed it out for windows. Luckily, I had my dry wall guy leave the last layer of drywall on the control room side in since I knew it would be awhile before I would get around to installing windows (and my previous booth had no sight connections at all and I kind of liked it).

Recently, I did a studio install in Texas where video cameras were used instead of windows and did some tracking at a studio in Austin that also uses cameras between the areas.

I've now decided to fill in the window holes in my both and use cameras as well, even though the windows are right there. Here are my reasons, for what they are worth:

1. Acoustics: windows rarely do any favors to the acoustics of a room and, as pointed out before, will take your nicely and obsessively constructed double stud wall from 70db attenuation (can't remember the 3 letter abbrv.) to 45db attentuation. When not working with clients, I work on my own music and love tracking guitar with my cabs in the booth and my amp heads in the studio. It's so nice to only hear what the mic hears in this situation and is so much easier on my ears. Even a 15 watt amp is bloody loud halfway open and I don't have any other marketable "skills" to fall back on if I blow my ears out.

2. I've done plenty of sessions without any sight and so far every artist I've worked with (and myself) have liked it better than windows. They have a nice creative space to deliver an uninhibited performance and I can surf my iPad while they do it! I'm going to put in the camera for count ins and cues when needed and for when a drummer is in the booth and another musician is playing along in the tracking room.

3. I already want to put a large TV on the wall in front of me exactly where the windows are framed for a second monitor or for video playback when doing post work. I also hope that by putting my pro tools session mirrored up there when mixing or editing with the client in the room (you know, the client who has to see every move you make in Pro Tools instead of just listening to the restults) will keep the client seating on the nice expensive couch that I bought for them in the rear of the room and not up at the mix desk right next to me.

4. I'm lazy. I'd have to custom order glass to do the windows and then frame them just right so as not to have any addition sound transmission through leaks. I already own an HD cam and a 46" LED - one more cheap camera and an old school TV (to keep with my booths retro vibe) and I'm done.

5. Visual flexibility. I know you can put curtains on windows, but cameras can easily be turned on or off or switched channels. I plan to run it where I can control their monitor input and have it on me at the end of the take or when needed and be able to switch it to a fireplace or screensaver the rest of the time. I can put my monitor on my pro tools session and quickly switch inputs if I hear them getting off mic (of course, going blind I've always heard that anyway and have just said after the take "I hear a little bit of movement, is it possible you're ducking your chin a little or bouncing a bit from side to side?").

6. Talkback - if you're running audio with the video into the TV's then when they are both on you can talk freely back and forth as if you were in the same room without having to worry about pushing the bottom (or all the silly back and forth you go through with the producer when he/she starts talking when the bottons not pushed and you spend have the time going "can you hear me now"). Also, nothing worse as an artist then seeing everyone in the control talking without being able to hear them until they're ready to address you.

7. I find you listen better with less visual feedback. When I mix I make my adjustments and then turn off the monitor to listen to them. I find that if I don't I just stare at the waveforms and listen to the mix as a bunch of tracks instead of as music. Same with not seeing the talent - you hear if they are on or off mic and tend to listen more to the performance instead of just waiting for pitch or timing mistakes. Not seeing them is like listening to the radio and gives me a better gut sense as to whether the take itself is good enough to punch in any mistakes or if the feel just isn't right yet.

Things to watch out for:

1. latency. there can be some with HD cameras and HD TV. When we first installed the system at the new studio in texas we were getting a good half second of latency and it was unworkable. Tracking drums, everytime you glanced up at the monitor your brain freaks out seeing and hearing different timings. We found the solution was to put the TV in game mode which I guess goes a little faster. There's still probably about a frame of lag but it still works. As others have noted, there's no real latency with non-hd systems.


I think that every studio has it's own needs and solutions but for me, after doing tracking sessions at two studios with video only I really came to like it so that's what I'm going with.
Old 20th March 2018
  #72
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Yes this is an old thread, but I wanted to find out what people are using in 2018 for their "video monitoring in booth" options. An iPad comes to mind, as it's relatively cheap, with a display with built-in camera... but is latency an issue? Or is a dedicated camera better, what kind of connection? Would love to hear about your setups
Old 20th March 2018
  #73
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I’ve done this in multiple studios and have some takeaways. There can be a lot of bonuses: prime is choosing a distant control room or a better suited space for the control room that happens to not be near the live room. Isolation is easier and cheaper for the control room.

Con: the prevalent and easy to get digital cameras. Even with the best, you can feel the delay. The best solution is analogue cameras with a single conversion to digital. Usually the conversion situated in the machine room for the control room that then sends the picture to a high speed lcd (not a crazy 4K which will have 70ms of latency for processing but a gaming display under 10ms; picture quality is not as important.) The conversion in digital cameras is slow and then you’ve got the CMOS vs CCD camera issue. And yet both are slower than analog for real-time monitoring. As for iPads — huge latency. Pretty much anything wireless. Use wired displays. The big thing is you need lowest latency for live room sending to control room but for feedback/instructions going from control room to live room, 100 ms latency will be no issue. They won’t notice as they aren’t monitoring via two paths like the control room is.
Old 6th November 2018
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
I’ve done this in multiple studios and have some takeaways. There can be a lot of bonuses: prime is choosing a distant control room or a better suited space for the control room that happens to not be near the live room. Isolation is easier and cheaper for the control room.

Con: the prevalent and easy to get digital cameras. Even with the best, you can feel the delay. The best solution is analogue cameras with a single conversion to digital. Usually the conversion situated in the machine room for the control room that then sends the picture to a high speed lcd (not a crazy 4K which will have 70ms of latency for processing but a gaming display under 10ms; picture quality is not as important.) The conversion in digital cameras is slow and then you’ve got the CMOS vs CCD camera issue. And yet both are slower than analog for real-time monitoring. As for iPads — huge latency. Pretty much anything wireless. Use wired displays. The big thing is you need lowest latency for live room sending to control room but for feedback/instructions going from control room to live room, 100 ms latency will be no issue. They won’t notice as they aren’t monitoring via two paths like the control room is.
I need to find the best solution for video between the vocal booth and control room with the lowest latency. I have Sony OLED 4k TV's in both rooms. Should I use cameras with an HDMI output? or???. Thanks!
Old 6th November 2018
  #75
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Wireless may have a huge latency but it also has huge advantages. It's easy, no cable to run. It's cheap, everyone has a cell phone, iPad, laptop etc. already.

My control room is in the garage and the studio proper is the house. I have underground conduit already run and was wondering what type of cable to run. Gonna try easy and cheap first but if it doesn't work out (wireless reception is crap) I'll be running cable between them. I have 3 conduits, one for audio, one for power and one for everything else. Distance is about 30 feet. Thinking of running usb, hdmi, ethernet and coax just to cover all my bases. Studio space is precious and I'm hoping to use one of the 3 monitors connected to the main Mac Pro and large flat screen connected to an old 2012 Mac laptop in the house. Hoping for 2k resolution but 1k would probably do. I don't think analogue resolution cuts it anymore. Not really concerned about latency.
Old 6th November 2018
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliverkit View Post
I need to find the best solution for video between the vocal booth and control room with the lowest latency. I have Sony OLED 4k TV's in both rooms. Should I use cameras with an HDMI output? or???. Thanks!
Ahh...latency.

I run a pair of HD TVs for my control room/vocal room visual connectivity. There are a pair of consumer-grade Canon Vixia R62 cameras feeding the HDMI ports the TV visuals. Performer side is 46-inch Panasonic plasma TV, and my side is a 19-inch ViewSonic computer display.

The setup works fine, although latency is high enough to see that a person strumming an acoustic guitar is clearly not in sync with the sound we're getting through the headphone feeds. It has proved to not be a problem at all.

Just for laughs, I took a look a the Sony A9F OLED TV test results. It shows a typical range of 27ms of latency on its inputs. On top of that, the camera conversion latency that's *probably* one frame (33ms) and possibly more, puts your intrepid troupe at 60ms latency before anything else is introduced into the plan.

If you're fully apprised of how laggy it will be before you try it, I think you'll have an easier time ignoring the detriments, and enjoying the benefits. The singers love it, and don't care about the latency. As long as they're not trying be a visual metronome for the drummer, everything is fine.

[ Sony A9F Review (XBR55A9F, XBR65A9F) - RTINGS.com ]

HTH
Old 7th November 2018
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
Ahh...latency.

I run a pair of HD TVs for my control room/vocal room visual connectivity. There are a pair of consumer-grade Canon Vixia R62 cameras feeding the HDMI ports the TV visuals. Performer side is 46-inch Panasonic plasma TV, and my side is a 19-inch ViewSonic computer display.

The setup works fine, although latency is high enough to see that a person strumming an acoustic guitar is clearly not in sync with the sound we're getting through the headphone feeds. It has proved to not be a problem at all.

Just for laughs, I took a look a the Sony A9F OLED TV test results. It shows a typical range of 27ms of latency on its inputs. On top of that, the camera conversion latency that's *probably* one frame (33ms) and possibly more, puts your intrepid troupe at 60ms latency before anything else is introduced into the plan.

If you're fully apprised of how laggy it will be before you try it, I think you'll have an easier time ignoring the detriments, and enjoying the benefits. The singers love it, and don't care about the latency. As long as they're not trying be a visual metronome for the drummer, everything is fine.

[ Sony A9F Review (XBR55A9F, XBR65A9F) - RTINGS.com ]

HTH
Thanks for that info!
Do you know of any alternatives that would not have any lag?
Old 7th November 2018
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliverkit View Post
Thanks for that info!
Do you know of any alternatives that would not have any lag?
Well, I did have project in my head last year for a church to do the following:

Run NDI cameras (new firmware that encodes within 16 scan lines, about 1/2-millisecond) via Ethernet to a vMix computer (software for a PC that manages real-time and stored video) that would display via TV's in game mode (some TV's have a special low-latency game mode HDMI input at around 10ms).

With all that in place and working as hoped, it's probable/possible to stay in the digital realm and get an end-to-end visual latency under one frame (33ms). That would all look and sound pretty natural if the audience cannot simultaneously see the real person and the projected/TV image. Note that in my studio, all the audio between rooms is managed with the mixer and headphone amps, all under 1ms latency.

I hated the image quality and lack of switching flexibility with my old analog camera setup that I had before, but the latency was always "very low"... although I never measured it.
Old 7th November 2018
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
Well, I did have project in my head last year for a church to do the following:

Run NDI cameras (new firmware that encodes within 16 scan lines, about 1/2-millisecond) via Ethernet to a vMix computer (software for a PC that manages real-time and stored video) that would display via TV's in game mode (some TV's have a special low-latency game mode HDMI input at around 10ms).

With all that in place and working as hoped, it's probable/possible to stay in the digital realm and get an end-to-end visual latency under one frame (33ms). That would all look and sound pretty natural if the audience cannot simultaneously see the real person and the projected/TV image. Note that in my studio, all the audio between rooms is managed with the mixer and headphone amps, all under 1ms latency.

I hated the image quality and lack of switching flexibility with my old analog camera setup that I had before, but the latency was always "very low"... although I never measured it.
Thanks!
Old 18th May 2019
  #80
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I am trying to figure out a system for a windowless tracking setup in 2019. I currently have analog rca cameras feeding flat screens in the booth and big room. It looks horrible, but latency is very low.
Gary, wondering how you get your cameras to the hdmi ports...assuming they are far away. I probably have 40ft of cable run.

Does anyone have an ethernet solution? I already have ethernet run between the locations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
Ahh...latency.

I run a pair of HD TVs for my control room/vocal room visual connectivity. There are a pair of consumer-grade Canon Vixia R62 cameras feeding the HDMI ports the TV visuals. Performer side is 46-inch Panasonic plasma TV, and my side is a 19-inch ViewSonic computer display.

The setup works fine, although latency is high enough to see that a person strumming an acoustic guitar is clearly not in sync with the sound we're getting through the headphone feeds. It has proved to not be a problem at all.

Just for laughs, I took a look a the Sony A9F OLED TV test results. It shows a typical range of 27ms of latency on its inputs. On top of that, the camera conversion latency that's *probably* one frame (33ms) and possibly more, puts your intrepid troupe at 60ms latency before anything else is introduced into the plan.

If you're fully apprised of how laggy it will be before you try it, I think you'll have an easier time ignoring the detriments, and enjoying the benefits. The singers love it, and don't care about the latency. As long as they're not trying be a visual metronome for the drummer, everything is fine.

[ Sony A9F Review (XBR55A9F, XBR65A9F) - RTINGS.com ]

HTH
Old 18th May 2019
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
...
Gary, wondering how you get your cameras to the hdmi ports...assuming they are far away. I probably have 40ft of cable run.
.
I use HDMI over Cat5e/6 extenders made by GoFanco and Cable Matters. I think the CM brand is better, but I haven't directly compared the latency.
Old 18th May 2019
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
I use HDMI over Cat5e/6 extenders made by GoFanco and Cable Matters. I think the CM brand is better, but I haven't directly compared the latency.
Thanks for the response! So something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...gateway&sr=8-6

and

https://www.amazon.com/Canon-VIXIA-H...ateway&sr=8-15


Does your camera have a bunch of onscreen text when displaying hdmi out? Does it turn off/time out after a while?
Old 19th May 2019
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
Thanks for the response! So something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...gateway&sr=8-6

and

https://www.amazon.com/Canon-VIXIA-H...ateway&sr=8-15


Does your camera have a bunch of onscreen text when displaying hdmi out? Does it turn off/time out after a while?
The Canon Vixia HDMI out can be run "clean" meaning that it is just the image without all the camera control/display stuff.

As for the HDMI extenders, the "dumb" extenders are the ones I use. They are *not* Ethernet, but are Cat5e/Cat6 twisted pair cable directly point-to-point between transmit/receive.

I'll look up the ones I have used and will update this thread soon.

UPDATE:
The exact Cable Matters boxes that I've used don't seem to be for sale on Amazon. I didn't check further. The GoFanco boxes that I use are similar to these [https://www.amazon.com/gofanco-Exten...ateway&sr=8-19 ] but once again, the exact ones I use don't seem to be for sale. Time moves onward.

There are plenty of sloppy specifications and titles in this arena. Ethernet is a protocol that runs over a variety of media including twisted pair Cat5E and Cat6, etc. Ethernet is supported in LAN switches, and can run protocols like TCP/IP, NetBIOS, and AppleTalk. This is the same sort of sloppiness we that causes newbie confusion when shopping for TRS cables, wherein the vendors call them 'stereo' cables when the simply are balanced cables that could potentially be used for unbalanced stereo.

Twisted pair cable is *not* inherently Ethernet cable, and when used with the "dumb" point-to-point HDMI extenders the twisted pair cable is simply passing whatever encoding the box pairs are using between them. Okay, I'm done with my soapbox. The CM boxes you linked will work, and the GoFanco boxes I linked also will work.

One last thing, the Canon Vixia cameras use a mini-HDMI output, so you'll need a mini-to-full HDMI cable to connect from the camera to the extender. The HDMI output does not time out. Just make sure the camera is definitely not in Demo mode.

[ https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Canon.../dp/9983891212 ]

Last edited by MediaGary; 19th May 2019 at 02:15 PM.. Reason: added links
Old 19th May 2019
  #85
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Gary, Thanks a million for the detailed response! Super helpful. I'm going to try the products you mentioned and also a cheap video camera to compare functionality and image. Here's the cheap cam. Will update post after I try them out.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...4SH75Z86&psc=1


Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
The Canon Vixia HDMI out can be run "clean" meaning that it is just the image without all the camera control/display stuff.

As for the HDMI extenders, the "dumb" extenders are the ones I use. They are *not* Ethernet, but are Cat5e/Cat6 twisted pair cable directly point-to-point between transmit/receive.

I'll look up the ones I have used and will update this thread soon.

UPDATE:
The exact Cable Matters boxes that I've used don't seem to be for sale on Amazon. I didn't check further. The GoFanco boxes that I use are similar to these [https://www.amazon.com/gofanco-Exten...ateway&sr=8-19 ] but once again, the exact ones I use don't seem to be for sale. Time moves onward.

There are plenty of sloppy specifications and titles in this arena. Ethernet is a protocol that runs over a variety of media including twisted pair Cat5E and Cat6, etc. Ethernet is supported in LAN switches, and can run protocols like TCP/IP, NetBIOS, and AppleTalk. This is the same sort of sloppiness we that causes newbie confusion when shopping for TRS cables, wherein the vendors call them 'stereo' cables when the simply are balanced cables that could potentially be used for unbalanced stereo.

Twisted pair cable is *not* inherently Ethernet cable, and when used with the "dumb" point-to-point HDMI extenders the twisted pair cable is simply passing whatever encoding the box pairs are using between them. Okay, I'm done with my soapbox. The CM boxes you linked will work, and the GoFanco boxes I linked also will work.

One last thing, the Canon Vixia cameras use a mini-HDMI output, so you'll need a mini-to-full HDMI cable to connect from the camera to the extender. The HDMI output does not time out. Just make sure the camera is definitely not in Demo mode.

[ https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Canon.../dp/9983891212 ]
Old 26th May 2019
  #86
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Well I did a little trial using the ethernet extenders vs just using a 35 ft hmdi cabe with the vixia camera(the cheaper camera didn't have hdmi)

Visual latency was about the same maybe 100 ms or so. Very important to put your tv in video game mode. This degrades the picture, but decreases latency a lot.

For my situation routing a couple of long hdmi cables is going to be the solution. The ethernet extender couldn't handle the length of existing cable runs and number of patch points. It worked fine with shorter cable runs, but my wiring is already in wall with a central patch bay.
Old 26th May 2019
  #87
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find some analog cameras ... digital everything has visual latency .. does not work in a studio situation IF the performers need to interact .. fine if just the Engineer watching the Performers .. went through this with a friend .. and he could not understand until he tried to play with his drummer while sitting at his console !! DOH !!! you are rushing, no you are behind, no you are rushing ... LOL
Old 26th May 2019
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
find some analog cameras ... digital everything has visual latency .. does not work in a studio situation IF the performers need to interact .. fine if just the Engineer watching the Performers .. went through this with a friend .. and he could not understand until he tried to play with his drummer while sitting at his console !! DOH !!! you are rushing, no you are behind, no you are rushing ... LOL
How much latency were you working with? That's the million dollar question. The brain can compensate for a small visual latency and correct for it. once you pass a threshold there is a disconnect. I don't believe 50 ms would be a problem for performers. Haven't tested it yet though.

CNET has a great article on lcd input lag in gaming mode. Here are the tv's that had the lowest latencies:

Television Type Input Lag (ms)
Sony KDL-55W802A LED LCD 16.9
Sony KDL-55W900A LED LCD 19.7
Vizio E50i-A1 LED LCD 32.2
Toshiba 50L2300U LED LCD 33.4
BenQ W1070 DLP projector 33.7
Panasonic TC-P50S60 plasma 34.1
Panasonic TC-L55DT60 LED LCD 34.4
Seiki SE50UY04 LED LCD 38.3
Panasonic TC-P60ZT60 plasma 46.2
Panasonic TC-P60VT60 plasma 47.9
Mitsubishi HC7900DW DLP projector 48.5
Samsung UN55F8000 LED LCD 50.9
Samsung PN60F8500 plasma 53.1

full article:https://www.cnet.com/news/game-mode-...for-input-lag/
Old 26th May 2019
  #89
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jwh1192's Avatar
Hi Q, we had "A" Level guys coming in for bass and drums recordings .. the obvious fix was to just not look at the monitor for them but for some of the lower level players, they needed to see each other for Cueing ..

how much latency .. any of it was unusable in our situations .. the problem compounds when you have a Digital Camera and Digital TV .. we never measured it, you could clearly see it though .. i mean, i woeked at DVD authoring and we could see 1-2ms of lipsync off .. has to be spot on ..

one issue now is .. can you even find an ALL Analog Path ?? so you have some really low examples - nice research !! need some info on Cameras too (not asking you to do that by any means my Slutty Friend) .. you have done quite a bit already .. let me share a couple with you'all !!!

NOT Sure what Budget OP Has !! to me Wi-Fi would be too slow ..

here is a cool website - analog and digital .. but expensive .. https://www.oemcameras.com/analog-di...rd-cameras.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Bluefish-Secu...tronics&sr=1-3

Simple stuff ... use the Composite input (if TV have those anymore ..haha)

cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
How much latency were you working with? That's the million dollar question. The brain can compensate for a small visual latency and correct for it. once you pass a threshold there is a disconnect. I don't believe 50 ms would be a problem for performers. Haven't tested it yet though.

CNET has a great article on lcd input lag in gaming mode. Here are the tv's that had the lowest latencies:

Television Type Input Lag (ms)
Sony KDL-55W802A LED LCD 16.9
Sony KDL-55W900A LED LCD 19.7
Vizio E50i-A1 LED LCD 32.2
Toshiba 50L2300U LED LCD 33.4
BenQ W1070 DLP projector 33.7
Panasonic TC-P50S60 plasma 34.1
Panasonic TC-L55DT60 LED LCD 34.4
Seiki SE50UY04 LED LCD 38.3
Panasonic TC-P60ZT60 plasma 46.2
Panasonic TC-P60VT60 plasma 47.9
Mitsubishi HC7900DW DLP projector 48.5
Samsung UN55F8000 LED LCD 50.9
Samsung PN60F8500 plasma 53.1

full article:https://www.cnet.com/news/game-mode-...for-input-lag/
Old 27th May 2019
  #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmbmotorshop View Post
Not to get too far off topic here, but I just wanted to share my experience so far.

I originally planned for cameras and screens in my studio but haven't set them up yet. I've been working "blind" for a couple projects now with only vocal communication and to tell you the truth, I have not missed the visual communication at all. The musicians that have recorded in the studio, including myself, have not missed being able to see the control room either. It feels more intimate without people staring at you from another room.

As always, that's just my experience and YMMV.
Same deal here. Originally planned on cameras but didn't get around to it very quickly and then realized nobody (including me) missed the line of sight thing so I forgot about it. The infamous British producer from way back, Joe Meek, operated this way as well. No window in the control room.
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