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Chris Lord Alge Sound.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #1
Chiconcuac 
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Chris Lord Alge Sound.

Hello guys, this is my first post so please be nice.

I'm producing a Rock Band and they are asking for a CLA kind of sound.

They love what he did with Doughtry, does anybody knows what is his approach mostly on guitars?
Does anybody has worked with him that could share?

please don't answer "Hire CLA", obviously the budget of this project doesn't allow that.

thank u.

Rick.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiconcuac View Post

please don't answer "Hire CLA", obviously the budget of this project doesn't allow that.

thank u.

Rick.
How about hire Howard Benson?

He is probably as much responsible as anyone.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #3
Lives for gear
 
maxpidge's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiconcuac View Post
Hello guys, this is my first post so please be nice.

I'm producing a Rock Band and they are asking for a CLA kind of sound.

They love what he did with Doughtry, does anybody knows what is his approach mostly on guitars?
Does anybody has worked with him that could share?

please don't answer "Hire CLA", obviously the budget of this project doesn't allow that.

thank u.

Rick.
over compress EVERYTHING!!
Old 22nd January 2011
  #4
Gear Nut
 
Mite's Avatar
Waves CLA bundle
Old 22nd January 2011
  #5
Yeah, CLA released a group of Waves plugins that he designed which seem to steer you toward his way of mixing. I havn't had the chance to try them yet, but I watched him demonstrate them at the NAMM show last year. Seemed interesting.

Classic Compressors Audio Plugins from Chris Lord-Alge - CLA Classic Compressors | Bundles | WAVES

There's also a good discussion about him here:
Just saw Chris Lord Alge at Sterling Sound
Old 22nd January 2011
  #6
Chiconcuac 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
How about hire Howard Benson?

He is probably as much responsible as anyone.
And his aproach recording guitars is...


Old 22nd January 2011
  #7
Chiconcuac 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mite View Post
Waves CLA bundle
this is fine, but I don't think he uses his plug ins on his guitars

i mean, he's getting THAT sound even before plug ins were invented!
Old 22nd January 2011
  #8
Gear Nut
 
Mite's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiconcuac View Post
this is fine, but I don't think he uses his plug ins on his guitars

i mean, he's getting THAT sound even before plug ins were invented!
yeah it's pre plug thing but at least he's giving us his favorite amps for reamping ( at least that's what he states)
Old 22nd January 2011
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiconcuac View Post
And his aproach recording guitars is...


To hire Mike Plotnikoff to track it.

And what's with the face palm?

Your question is a little to general to give a proper response. Without hearing the tracks before and after its hard to tell how much CLA contributed to it and what specifically had to be done in the mix. Its possible it was just a touch of SSL EQ from the console and some automation and it was good to go. Or maybe something more drastic which i personally doubt.

In terms of the tracking it was recorded at Bay 7 studios and they have a Neve 8058 and a BCM12.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Ask your clients to show you what they mean.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
To hire Mike Plotnikoff to track it.

And what's with the face palm?

Your question is a little to general to give a proper response. Without hearing the tracks before and after its hard to tell how much CLA contributed to it and what specifically had to be done in the mix. Its possible it was just a touch of SSL EQ from the console and some automation and it was good to go. Or maybe something more drastic which i personally doubt.

In terms of the tracking it was recorded at Bay 7 studios and they have a Neve 8058 and a BCM12.
I personally think that these kind of pursuits are pointless and can lead you down a never ending pathway of uncertainty and confusion...
I agree with "thethrillfactor". Your question is way too generalized, I mean if you asked what type of comp he used on electrics I could tell you he usually uses his LA3A's with a bit more comp from his 4K and a bit of EQ from the board, but in my personal experience (having worked with both CLA and TLA a few times now) he doesn't really change the tone or vibe of the recorded material, he just spanks it a bit and gets it sitting just right. He's really good at balancing stuff while still making sure there is punch & excitement in the mix (when needed) And I'm sorry but unless you have his gear, his room & his ears your not even going to get close to getting his sound. CLA love him or not HAS a definite sound that not many guys in the world can recreate, I can usually pick a CLA mix a mile away. If the band wants their tracks to sound like CLA has mixed them, tell them to front up the cash, or get ready for disappointment. I have had bands come in (that have a very limited budget) and ask for the same thing, I just sit them down and explain the cost involved with that kind of pursuit, ie; tracking @ bay 7 with Mike and Howard, a mix with CLA and mastering with Ted @ sterling.... conservatively coming in at around $25k per track..... After that they are happy for the tracks to sound how they sound. Just try to be the best you that you can be! thumbsup
Old 22nd January 2011
  #12
Lives for gear
 
skybluerental's Avatar
 

OP, if you are looking for a simple answer, you are going to be very disappointed.

thrill and matt are right in their posts above.

no free lunch.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #13
Lives for gear
Well known is the gear he states to use on everything pretty much, Blue Stripe '76 on the main vocals, blackface 76's on drums,
LA3As on acoustic guitars, SHMC on the 2buss, Neve eqs on drums again, VacRack on electric guitars and bkg vocals,
distressors on the snare(s), lotsa samples on the drum. etc..
As well as the info about his system, Sony to tape to PT..

I found useful to take a look at his channel on youtube, there are videos about his finished mixes running thru
all the gear to tape and you get very interesting hints if you look at the board, you see where he uses the SSL eqs,
and where the SSL compressors (which is mostly what is not given to know) gates,
and you sometimes are able to figure out some board routing and stuff like that. Very very interesting, take a look at it
the channel is called "clamix" or something like that, easy to find.

I think this is pretty much all the info you can get on "how to get that sound", even tho' I don't really know how much this will help:
you need to listen and try to match if that's what you want, it doesn't matter if you do it with the same gear or the same techniques,
all it matters is how close you get to what you want, and yes, it's possible to achieve a closer sounding results with different tools and different techniques.

What you really need is a good room with a good monitoring system that you know by heart.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Book SSL studio first. A lot of part of CLA signature sound is coming from SSL console.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

I think it's kind of uncool how some people on here say things like "you'll never get that sound".. When we first started, all we did was try to imitate our favorite albums. That helps us learn. It's just like learning to play Smoke on the Water when you first pick up a guitar. You learn through imitation, and then figure out how to do your own thing. Imitation allows us to learn how our gear works. What it's strengths and weaknesses are. Use the gear you have and TRY to imitate a CLA mix. Experiment! When you've gotten as close as you can with your gear, if you're still not happy, and the client still isn't happy, then maybe buy something else. Or keep experimenting
Old 22nd January 2011
  #16
Deleted User 
Guest
To side step the issue of "you can't be CLA!" for a second...

maybe it would help the OP if people chimed in - helpfully - on the question of 'what do you hear that defines the Doughtry sound, or the CLA sound'?

I know it's easy to be sarcastic, especially if you're not a fan of the music. But from an analytic point of view would you say, for example, "double track guitars panned hard left and right? Close mic'd guitar amps? Parallel compression on drums? Or sample replaced/enhanced drums? What sort of bass sounds? What sort of verb and fx?"

I don't know the music well enough to answer any of the above, but at least it might be more useful to just dissect the style in question and figure out what makes it tick...

Sometimes I like to know how to get a particular sound, even when it's not a sound I like!
Old 22nd January 2011
  #17
Buy whatever he uses and you will be all set. Same thing if you want to sound or play like Hendrix....Strat/Marshall...Done. ; )
Old 22nd January 2011
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiconcuac View Post
Hello guys, this is my first post so please be nice.

I'm producing a Rock Band and they are asking for a CLA kind of sound.

They love what he did with Doughtry, does anybody knows what is his approach mostly on guitars?
Does anybody has worked with him that could share?

please don't answer "Hire CLA", obviously the budget of this project doesn't allow that.

thank u.

Rick.
Very misguided quest.

The short answer is what has been stated: Track where the bands that get their stuff mixed by CLA track and hire CLA to subsequently mix those tracks.

Why?
Because it's impossible to get CLA's "sound" without his ears, gear, room and the same kind of raw tracks that he's typically working with when he's pulling off his "sound".

But perhaps a more useful question is: Why does it matter if it sounds like CLA mixed it? That's very silly actually because the best any artist can do is to sound like the best possible version of themselves, regardless of who mixed their material. So I say, do YOUR thing and make sure you write and play well. Then hire a respectable studio to track your **** and a respectable mix engineer to mix it and it will sound sweet.

Stop trying to follow the bandwagon.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #19
Lives for gear
 
cinealta's Avatar
 

Daughtry's sound is not CLA, its Howard Benson. Get your band into Bay 7 in Valley Village and have Plotnikoff track your live instruments. Benson is totally symmetrical. Vox is king, everything else supports. Double cleans in the verse, double distorted in chorus, double leads, double everything. Keyboards underneath following guitars and vox.

Some mixes CLA does a lot on, but Benson and Cavallo mix themselves. You can just throw up the faders, the tracks they supply are that good.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
 
dabigfrog's Avatar
 

try listening to your clients CLA tracks, identify the sound they want then its simple, just recreate that sound with what you have to work with!

does CLA track? i thought he just mixed??


good luck, there is a reason people pay him 8k per track to mix...

you are going to have to do your own homework around here, there is no simple easy way to tell you how it is done, you just have to do it, experiment until you get in the same ballpark.stike
Old 22nd January 2011
  #21
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiconcuac View Post
And his aproach recording guitars is...


I do not actually know of any albums he has recorded in the last 20 years.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

I hate to be the person to say this but.... Why try to imitate? Explain the band that they can't get a CLA mix on their album as it's not CLA mixing them but you, don't undermine your abilities as an individual by trying to copycat what others do.

You can learn from others, but take that and apply to your own stylistic choice.

But still, most CLA mixes are completely top notch, he is the man.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #23
Gear Addict
 
britdick's Avatar
 

not gonna happen

You are on a fool's errand my man. Only CLA can get that sound. You could probably ask any major mixer to duplicate another mixer's sound and they's come up snake-eyes on that roll.

Tell the band to just make a great record.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #24
Gear Addict
 
davedarling's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiconcuac View Post
Hello guys, this is my first post so please be nice.

I'm producing a Rock Band and they are asking for a CLA kind of sound.

They love what he did with Doughtry, does anybody knows what is his approach mostly on guitars?
Does anybody has worked with him that could share?

please don't answer "Hire CLA", obviously the budget of this project doesn't allow that.

thank u.

Rick.
If you're in the computer, import the track you want to emulate onto it's own track in the session or if you're tape/board, set up an a/b system so you can go back and forth and back and forth and... you get the idea.
Focus on one thing at a time, and try to identify the eq, and compression.
Is it bright , dark, squished, whatever, and turn knobs till you get close.
If you're a/b ing while tracking you may get hints as to what mic and pre to use.
There are no "up 2 db @ 5k on the guitars" answers. It depends on what you start with,-parts, gear, players, studio etc.
Chris's mixes tend to be kind of bright, with a lot of individual track compression. I think he has a style, but I don't think all of his mixes sound the same.
good luck dd
Old 22nd January 2011
  #25
Lives for gear
 
bossman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mite View Post
Waves CLA bundle
Yup, I was gonna say that.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #26
Chiconcuac 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCM - Ronan View Post
I do not actually know of any albums he has recorded in the last 20 years.
I know he hasn't recorded those albums, if you care to read, my post was in reponse to Thethrillfactor telling me to hire Howard Benson to get Daughtry's sound.

What CLA charges per song is what this band have for the complete project incluiding production, tracking and mixing.
I'm sure all of you have the money to pay CLA for a mix in this situations, we don't.
A Big thanks for all the people sharing tips and aproaches to get close to that sound.
Also thank you to all the people who was so kind to give the classic GS answer: GET CLA, GET Howard benson, etc, etc. Yes, that's what we need.

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Rick.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #27
Gear Addict
 
Slap Back's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davedarling View Post
If you're in the computer, import the track you want to emulate onto it's own track in the session or if you're tape/board, set up an a/b system so you can go back and forth and back and forth and... you get the idea.
Focus on one thing at a time, and try to identify the eq, and compression.
Is it bright , dark, squished, whatever, and turn knobs till you get close.
If you're a/b ing while tracking you may get hints as to what mic and pre to use.
There are no "up 2 db @ 5k on the guitars" answers. It depends on what you start with,-parts, gear, players, studio etc.
Chris's mixes tend to be kind of bright, with a lot of individual track compression. I think he has a style, but I don't think all of his mixes sound the same.
good luck dd
This sort of A/B technique actually works pretty well. Your best bet, really. It gives you the chance to log in some serious listening and tweaking time, which will yield concrete results. Your mix won't be a carbon copy of what you're trying to emulate, but the overall sound will be much more like what you and the band want to hear.

In my opinion, its vital to keep some sort of reference handy to keep your ears tuned to some sort of sonic goal. Otherwise its easy to get lulled into thinking you have a great sound when you actually have a wimpy sound compared to the mainstream.

Everything is relative, and to me its a joy to hear my work not get trounced when I switch to the radio or a CD.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #28
Lives for gear
 
lasso's Avatar
 

The CLA presets in the waves ssl channel gives little hints towards his mixing method - lots of brigtness, lots of comression and lots of getting things to poke through a super compressed super wall of super sound. Get things to cut through with huge amounts of compresison and EQ and do a lot of level riding to get the dynamics back.

THEN copy his talent of balancing stuff - it's like he can have everything super loud and upfront at the same time without getting in each others way.
Old 22nd January 2011
  #29
Chiconcuac 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by lasso View Post
The CLA presets in the waves ssl channel gives little hints towards his mixing method - lots of brigtness, lots of comression and lots of getting things to poke through a super compressed super wall of super sound. Get things to cut through with huge amounts of compresison and EQ and do a lot of level riding to get the dynamics back.

THEN copy his talent of balancing stuff - it's like he can have everything super loud and upfront at the same time without getting in each others way.
Thank you Lasso


Quote:
Originally Posted by davedarling View Post
If you're in the computer, import the track you want to emulate onto it's own track in the session or if you're tape/board, set up an a/b system so you can go back and forth and back and forth and... you get the idea.
Focus on one thing at a time, and try to identify the eq, and compression.
Is it bright , dark, squished, whatever, and turn knobs till you get close.
If you're a/b ing while tracking you may get hints as to what mic and pre to use.
There are no "up 2 db @ 5k on the guitars" answers. It depends on what you start with,-parts, gear, players, studio etc.
Chris's mixes tend to be kind of bright, with a lot of individual track compression. I think he has a style, but I don't think all of his mixes sound the same.
good luck dd
thank you davedarling.

We have an xlrack with E eq's installed, I think they should help a little bit on the SSL side.


Rick.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #30
Gear Nut
 
ionraygun's Avatar
 

SOS had a good article on CLA a few years back - goes a bit into his approach with guitars.

Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Chris Lord-Alge

"multi-miked pairs, usually three microphones per amp" "making sure that the guitars are bright enough in the track"

SOS also reviews the Waves CLA bundle in the new issue.
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