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Lynx Aurora 16 vs Apogee Symphony Digital Converters
Old 4th September 2011
  #91
Here for the gear
 

Lynx Aurora 16 Vs Apogee Symphony I/O

I have had the chance to work with both side by side in the studio and honestly Aurora 16 sounds less enhanced or it sounds cleaner. The Symphony I/O seems to have a sharp curve at 10k which tends to make things sound brighter. If you like this then you are obviously going to like Symphony I/O better. However if you are like me and want to hear exactly what you are getting from your mix then Aurora is clearly superior. I am not downing Symphony it is an awesome AD/DA converter. I also hear that Apogees chip is newer technology than that of Lynx. However Lynx is tried and true and really needs no enhancements. If you run Pro Tools HD they will both connect to the Digi Core card with one exception. The Aurora 16 does it better. The Aurora can have both the native AESe and the PC32 from the Core card at the same time without you having to go to the back of you puter and pull out the cables. With the Symphony I/O if you want to switch to Pro Tools HD you must remove the cable and switch the box over from one setting to another. The Aurora does this automatically. It detects the source and changes to suit proper setting. Not just less coloring but tried and true its the winner for me.
Old 4th September 2011
  #92
Gear Maniac
 

IME

The A16 is not as good a coverter as the Apogee 16 x stuff...however I make music with an aurora...why...best bang for the buck
Old 4th September 2011
  #93
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
lisasmile,

who are you ? lisa ? smile

my name is john and I work in this industry.

when someone continually trashes gear they own. i wonder why they own it.

i have seen more than a few times your replies to Any Lynx post. why not buy a different converter if you are so displeased with your Aurora. or clock it with something to change the sound to your liking. BigBen or Antelope or ? your choice.

it sounds like You are the one that needs some new gear or a fresh approach to using what you have.

not trying to bash just help.

cheers

john
Old 4th September 2011
  #94
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
lisasmile,

who are you ? lisa ? smile

my name is john and I work in this industry.

when someone continually trashes gear they own. i wonder why they own it.

i have seen more than a few times your replies to Any Lynx post. why not buy a different converter if you are so displeased with your Aurora. or clock it with something to change the sound to your liking. BigBen or Antelope or ? your choice.

it sounds like You are the one that needs some new gear or a fresh approach to using what you have.

not trying to bash just help.

cheers

john
Aurora...I said I use it...it's a good piece...said that too...a number of times...Apogee conversion is better...that's what this topic is about....your post is out of line.
Old 4th September 2011
  #95
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jwh1192's Avatar
"The A16 is not as good a coverter as the Apogee 16 x stuff"

"Apogee conversion is better...that's what this topic is about"

these are not my words but yours.

"Lynx Aurora vs. Apogee Symphony" is the topic ..

Apogee conversion is better is your opinion. I get that but you are posting your opinion as if it is a Fact in every Lynx post there is. As you have seen on these posts, there are folks that chime in over and over on the same subject and they get persecuted by the other professionals on this forum. you are starting to fall into this category. I am nice about it, some others may not be. just trying to help. if you do not like your gear, as I asked respectfully , then why do you not change to another converter ? lets stay on track for the OP.

if you are no happy with my replies I will kindly not reply to any post you reply in. no worries. lets play nice. I will


what part of my post is out of line ? i do not even state my opinion in this post.

cheers

john
Old 4th September 2011
  #96
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
"The A16 is not as good a coverter as the Apogee 16 x stuff"

"Apogee conversion is better...that's what this topic is about"

these are not my words but yours.

"Lynx Aurora vs. Apogee Symphony" is the topic ..

Apogee conversion is better is your opinion. I get that but you are posting your opinion as if it is a Fact in every Lynx post there is. As you have seen on these posts, there are folks that chime in over and over on the same subject and they get persecuted by the other professionals on this forum. you are starting to fall into this category. I am nice about it, some others may not be. just trying to help. if you do not like your gear, as I asked respectfully , then why do you not change to another converter ? lets stay on track for the OP.

if you are no happy with my replies I will kindly not reply to any post you reply in. no worries. lets play nice. I will


what part of my post is out of line ? i do not even state my opinion in this post.

cheers

john
you should stick to you® opinion about the gear in question...as you can see if you've read through this thread, there are other professional who know how good the aurora is not...it's not a big deal...I like my gear...If I could afford it...I would have all 16x stuff because it is better IMO.

I dont post for me...I already know what I like...I'm posting so others can have a sense of balance when looking up a piece of gear...this place is loaded with folks that pimp gear and dont use it...I use it and this is my opinion on it...you dont have to like my opinion, but I can;t see anythng wrong with it.


So yes please move along... or post your experience or opinion on the gear.
Old 4th September 2011
  #97
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
ok ... Lisa or whoever you are.

you do not post like a girl .. LOL

"you should stick to you® opinion about the gear in question" ok, i will.

my opinion is what i use and own .. it is in my signature. I have owned and used many converters. this is where i landed for my studio. will it change in the future. maybe. but for now this is what i use.

i have never seen of heard of anyone doing this in a more scientific way to quantify an opinion. ie: on a scope is there a difference in the signal, is there really a hyped component in the Apogee or is the Lynx really very Flat. would love to see that. i know what i hear, but we all hear differently. lets see some documentation for this.

and yes, I am moving on. good luck with your posting.

cheers and have a great weekend.

john
Old 4th September 2011
  #98
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Cucaio75's Avatar
 

Here we had Aurora's and now we have Simphony I/O
Honestly we have no doubt that Simphony is far superior in 3D and depth
A much more analog and musical sound, with an amazing bottom, massive and accurate and a beautiful top
We are particularly happy about this purchase
Old 5th September 2011
  #99
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Peter Stengaard's Avatar
 

I just did serious testing of the new avid, the symphony and lynx. They all sound great but I'm keeping the lynx. All three also sounded better w a big ben - I think a good clock is a bigger factor than any of the three converters.
Old 5th September 2011
  #100
Here for the gear
 

Symphony I/O vs Aurora

I continue with this post and have mixed down exactly the same project on both I/Os. The Aurora reveals elements in the mix that honestly I did not hear in the Symphony. However Symphony has warmer bottom and sizzles at the top 10 k band. Overall Symphony does have some color but good color I am not downing one or another. I do not trash gear I own or anyone else for that matter. We are doing a comparison. Aurora has a little more middle than Symphony . I know it sounds weird and I wish there was a way to upload both these mix downs here for you to compare. I do like the nice highs in the SYmphony I/O and Aurora does not sizzle like the Symphony but it was negligible. Aurora made up in clarity and true transparency. So if cleaner mixes is what you are looking for Aurora is the way. One last thing I wanted to point out about my comparison in the Aurora Mix down the delays fell cleaner than on the SYmphony .. The Symphony seemed to warm it up but it defeated the purpose of the effect being applied. Aurora did a better cleaner job overall in my observation with middle again I wish it had a little sizzle but it is something I can live with.
Old 5th September 2011
  #101
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Peter Stengaard's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbarona View Post
I continue with this post and have mixed down exactly the same project on both I/Os. The Aurora reveals elements in the mix that honestly I did not hear in the Symphony. However Symphony has warmer bottom and sizzles at the top 10 k band. Overall Symphony does have some color but good color I am not downing one or another. I do not trash gear I own or anyone else for that matter. We are doing a comparison. Aurora has a little more middle than Symphony . I know it sounds weird and I wish there was a way to upload both these mix downs here for you to compare. I do like the nice highs in the SYmphony I/O and Aurora does not sizzle like the Symphony but it was negligible. Aurora made up in clarity and true transparency. So if cleaner mixes is what you are looking for Aurora is the way. One last thing I wanted to point out about my comparison in the Aurora Mix down the delays fell cleaner than on the SYmphony .. The Symphony seemed to warm it up but it defeated the purpose of the effect being applied. Aurora did a better cleaner job overall in my observation with middle again I wish it had a little sizzle but it is something I can live with.
I completely agree. The only thing I heard that I really thought sounded like a worthy upgrade was the Burl. Considering the bomber b2. Anyone happen to know how the clock is in those boxes ? Better than Lynx internal ?
Old 21st September 2011
  #102
Gear Head
 

I have had experience with both converters and Apogee converters are colored but as stated I have had the same issue when I got Lynx converters as the mid range was more present my solution for this was not using the Analog and keeping it digital as I do not like converters doing anything besides conversion. For the money I would choose the Lynx all over again.
Old 21st September 2011
  #103
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
i have never seen of heard of anyone doing this in a more scientific way to quantify an opinion. ie: on a scope is there a difference in the signal, is there really a hyped component in the Apogee or is the Lynx really very Flat. would love to see that. i know what i hear, but we all hear differently. lets see some documentation for this.

Frequency response deviations is best investigated with spectral analysis and it shows an extremly flat response from the Aurora. With extremly flat I mean no deviations that could be heard with a human ear.


/Peter
Old 21st September 2011
  #104
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun View Post
I went from tape to my very first digital converters which were a RADAR II, so I was spoiled from the git go. I subsequently acquired TASCAM, MOTU, and PT, converters that I not like and got rid of. I picked up a Apogee Rosetta and a Cranesong Hedd for my stereo bus coming off the analog console. I got rid of the Rosetta and kept the Hedd. Then picked up a couple of Apogee AD16X and DA16X with symphony card. I really liked the Apogee converters and grew to like a Daw rather than the RADAR box. Finally I stepped into a PTHD system and tried a Aurora 16 side by side with the Apogees. I then purchased another Aurora 16 and sold the Apogees.

Apogee Symphony AD16X and DA16X were great but the Auroras worked better for me with PTHD. I havent thought about converters in a couple of years and am totally content with my Auroras and Hedd 192 ...
we also have aurora 16 + HEDD 192 here and have been happy with that rig.

i hope this isn't too off topic but with the advent of PT9 i'd like to a laptop based rig and am undecided between Prism Orpheus, Avid Omni, Apogee Duet 2/Symphony or just getting the Weiss S/PDIF > firewire box and use the HEDD + Flamingo pres which we already have.

Duet 2 would certainly fit the portability bill, and the HEDD+Flamingo+Weiss S/PDIF > firewire box would more than likely give excellent results but portability would be compromised.

Orpheus has the most I/O and is 1U. Avid Omni is also 1U and by all accounts sounds great, so those are the options i'm considering now. any suggestions from people who've experienced Orpheus, Duet 2, Symphony and Avid Omni would be greatly appreciated. the alternative would be the clunkier HEDD/Flamingo/Weiss S/PDIF > firewire box combo. thank you all.
Old 21st September 2011
  #105
Lives for gear
Reading Apogee's spiel about the DA-16x, it does say:

"The DA-16X digital to analog converter uses Apogee's newly developed electronically balanced line drivers. Originally designed for the Mini-DAC, these line drivers are able to simulate true transformer behavior."

If they are simulating transformers, there'll be something there apart from just raw conversion to analog when compared with what's been described as "cleaner" converters. I think the folks who've said it sounds warmer may have a point if this is what they heard.

I don't know if Symphony uses that transformer simulation though.
Old 5th August 2012
  #106
Gear Addict
 
Zoot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
How do they compare? I have the Lynx Aurora 16 , and I am Looking for a new 16 DA .... for my summing.

also would be nice to know how the AD and DA compare between the Lynx and Apogee.
Honestly, and I do not even know if this thread is still being kicked around, I would not even question this. An apogee rosetta is leaps and bounds better than a lynx. Bigger. Fuller. More fat. Drastically higher decibel ouput (trust me on this). Everything about it is better. The lynx is just blah. It is whatever. Super flat and vanilla. If that is what you are looking for... a flat, lifeless HD converter... then get the lynx. But I was just comparing the lynx to the rosetta. The rosetta compared to the symphony is not exactly a fair comparison. The symphony IO is so much better. It is less coloured than the rosetta series converters, but bigger, fuller, more clear and with a much wider and detailed 3D stereo spread.

So, thus. Symphony IO blows the lynx out of the water. There are plenty who will disagree. But, C'est la vie. This would not even be an option for me.

Although, I have to say that I am using an Avid HD IO, now. I miss the apogee sound. I might end up getting a symphony when PT11 drops and they work the kinks out. But at this point in time I am digging it. I miss the colour. I do. But it is just as hot, full and clear. The lynx is none of these.
Old 5th August 2012
  #107
Lives for gear
For your own use buy the aurora and for clients base studio buy the Apogee, both sound good just name recognition.
Old 5th August 2012
  #108
Gear Maniac
 
atticmike's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caminitia15 View Post
Honestly, and I do not even know if this thread is still being kicked around, I would not even question this. An apogee rosetta is leaps and bounds better than a lynx. Bigger. Fuller. More fat. Drastically higher decibel ouput (trust me on this). Everything about it is better. The lynx is just blah. It is whatever. Super flat and vanilla. If that is what you are looking for... a flat, lifeless HD converter... then get the lynx. But I was just comparing the lynx to the rosetta. The rosetta compared to the symphony is not exactly a fair comparison. The symphony IO is so much better. It is less coloured than the rosetta series converters, but bigger, fuller, more clear and with a much wider and detailed 3D stereo spread.

So, thus. Symphony IO blows the lynx out of the water. There are plenty who will disagree. But, C'est la vie. This would not even be an option for me.

Although, I have to say that I am using an Avid HD IO, now. I miss the apogee sound. I might end up getting a symphony when PT11 drops and they work the kinks out. But at this point in time I am digging it. I miss the colour. I do. But it is just as hot, full and clear. The lynx is none of these.
Great how you can bulk up a sonic difference of 5 % between those units up to 100%. Gain some experience and mix for couple of years and then compare them again.
Old 5th August 2012
  #109
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
this is back again
Old 5th August 2012
  #110
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atticmike's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
this is back again
no pain, no gain as it goes for converters as well ;P
Old 5th August 2012
  #111
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VT-MHE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caminitia15 View Post
Honestly, and I do not even know if this thread is still being kicked around, I would not even question this. An apogee rosetta is leaps and bounds better than a lynx. Bigger. Fuller. More fat. Drastically higher decibel ouput (trust me on this). Everything about it is better. The lynx is just blah. It is whatever. Super flat and vanilla. If that is what you are looking for... a flat, lifeless HD converter... then get the lynx. But I was just comparing the lynx to the rosetta. The rosetta compared to the symphony is not exactly a fair comparison. The symphony IO is so much better. It is less coloured than the rosetta series converters, but bigger, fuller, more clear and with a much wider and detailed 3D stereo spread.

So, thus. Symphony IO blows the lynx out of the water. There are plenty who will disagree. But, C'est la vie. This would not even be an option for me.

Although, I have to say that I am using an Avid HD IO, now. I miss the apogee sound. I might end up getting a symphony when PT11 drops and they work the kinks out. But at this point in time I am digging it. I miss the colour. I do. But it is just as hot, full and clear. The lynx is none of these.
dude there just converters. rosettas really arent this holy big difference you speak of. i get that you love them and all but you should tone down the exaggerations man. clear/colored whatever pick one and make music. i dont even see where you said you actually listened to the symphony i/o. you just said its bigger wider and fuller than the rosetta (so based off your bias) it has to be a whole lot better than the lynx. we dont even know if your actually basing this off of real life experience, my guess is that you arent....typical gs
Old 6th August 2012
  #112
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catfishmusic's Avatar
All I can say is, I could not be happier with my Apogee Symphony!
Old 6th August 2012
  #113
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VT-MHE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by catfishmusic View Post
All I can say is, I could not be happier with my Apogee Symphony!
Old 6th August 2012
  #114
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VT-MHE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by catfishmusic View Post
All I can say is, I could not be happier with my Apogee Symphony!
ive been really trying to control my urge to get the symphony i/o man ive been fighting with myself back and forth about it every day! we'll see what happens in my chronicles of gearslutery lol
Old 6th August 2012
  #115
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

im shocked to hear that apogee does transformer emulation in the digital realm, like burl does with real transformers. this is supposed to be a AD/DA converter. ive compared the EMM/Lynx/DAD/Apogee/Prism side by side. the lowest imprint coming from the Lynx. All others add flavours to some extend. Prism exhibits exaggerated transients, EMM lacks lowend and too much highs, the Apogee sounds eq'd. so i went for the DAD AX24 for accoustic instruments (guitars etc) and voice and the Lynx for Drum applications. i couldnt be happier.
Old 6th August 2012
  #116
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SoZo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilDW View Post
Reading Apogee's spiel about the DA-16x, it does say:

"The DA-16X digital to analog converter uses Apogee's newly developed electronically balanced line drivers. Originally designed for the Mini-DAC, these line drivers are able to simulate true transformer behavior."

If they are simulating transformers, there'll be something there apart from just raw conversion to analog when compared with what's been described as "cleaner" converters. I think the folks who've said it sounds warmer may have a point if this is what they heard.

I don't know if Symphony uses that transformer simulation though.

Electronically balanced line drivers are an analog cathode follower design or a single ended to XLR balanced discrete transistor design not a transformer emulation.... but able to decouple the AC signal from the DC let's not confuse people they are NOT a digital emulation.
Old 6th August 2012
  #117
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catfishmusic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VT-MHE View Post
ive been really trying to control my urge to get the symphony i/o man ive been fighting with myself back and forth about it every day! we'll see what happens in my chronicles of gearslutery lol
Yeh, I was in your shoes. Was about to get a mytek, but decided to go with the Apogee. Glad I did. I couldn't imagine needing to change converters for a longggggg time......plus you can still obsess over changing modules, if you wanna be a true GS. For me, it's nice to have one thing crossed off the list.......converter.....check!
Old 7th August 2012
  #118
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VT-MHE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by catfishmusic View Post
Yeh, I was in your shoes. Was about to get a mytek, but decided to go with the Apogee. Glad I did. I couldn't imagine needing to change converters for a longggggg time......plus you can still obsess over changing modules, if you wanna be a true GS. For me, it's nice to have one thing crossed off the list.......converter.....check!
man im trying to be good. but its so hard! the symphony is just calling me. heres my issue. i have 2 lynx (32 ad-da) now i was going to get a 3rd. then i heard the symphony and i've been lusting after it ever since. not common sense tells me that the lynx is great and fine enough, but those damn symphonies are calling me! every time i look at one! but to get 48 of the apogee will cost me way more, due to me needed 2 i/o boxes. i lose all my a to d, i would get the 16 analog out with optical in modules and use either my forssell or another a to d spdif. but thats for just the 32 channel configuration. which is no problem costwise, its going to the 48 which ups the ante alot. so i've been debating if i should just deal with the 32 for now or just continue on with the lynx and go with my 48. sigh decisions decisions decisions.........
Old 7th August 2012
  #119
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
im shocked to hear that apogee does transformer emulation in the digital realm, like burl does with real transformers. this is supposed to be a AD/DA converter. ive compared the EMM/Lynx/DAD/Apogee/Prism side by side. the lowest imprint coming from the Lynx. All others add flavours to some extend. Prism exhibits exaggerated transients, EMM lacks lowend and too much highs, the Apogee sounds eq'd. so i went for the DAD AX24 for accoustic instruments (guitars etc) and voice and the Lynx for Drum applications. i couldnt be happier.
At what sample rate did you make the comparison?
Old 7th August 2012
  #120
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midnightsun's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VT-MHE View Post
man im trying to be good. but its so hard! the symphony is just calling me. heres my issue. i have 2 lynx (32 ad-da) now i was going to get a 3rd. then i heard the symphony and i've been lusting after it ever since. not common sense tells me that the lynx is great and fine enough, but those damn symphonies are calling me! every time i look at one! but to get 48 of the apogee will cost me way more, due to me needed 2 i/o boxes. i lose all my a to d, i would get the 16 analog out with optical in modules and use either my forssell or another a to d spdif. but thats for just the 32 channel configuration. which is no problem costwise, its going to the 48 which ups the ante alot. so i've been debating if i should just deal with the 32 for now or just continue on with the lynx and go with my 48. sigh decisions decisions decisions.........
I'll be the devils advocate--- Does the fact that the symphony is more pleasing to your ear this week mean that they are better converters? Are converters going to inject magic into the acoustic information as the analog world is being digitized and visa versa. I don't think that there is a right or wrong answer. Certainly, a setup that brings you joy and is fun to work with is important! What is your ultimate goal. I was listening to music on my car stereo the other day and hit a EQ preset that sounded absolute stunning and better. After several days of listening I hit the flat EQ preset and it sounded stunning and better. Our ears are subjective and so are our brains. I am happy with converters that do a good job converting and I will do the rest with software and hardware. There is an old expression "THE ENEMY OF GOOD IS BETTER." Lynx converters do a good job.
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