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Lynx Aurora 16 vs Apogee Symphony Digital Converters
Old 7th January 2011
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHROEDER View Post
can you share one of you real mixes with us? A sample of your work with the symphony in case that you have it in your "real" set up... In that case i can share with you guys a sample of a single (btw a hit in my country) that was made with aurora 16.. 100% positive.. Are you ok? Everybody wins..

A couple of days ago i was talking about what to buy lynx or apogee with one of the best producers in my country and told me.. Have you ever listen to this song.. (i was like.. Sure) ok that was recorded and mixed on my ssl and used aurora 16 (not just 1 i guess 4 or 5)

thanks!
I don't think that is his point. There are two songs right now on the AC top 20 done in my B room ITB through a digi002. Does that mean the digi002 converters sound as good as my RADAR, Apogee's, or Studer? I don't think so. Now if this thread was about "how much does it matter" we could get into that instead.
Old 7th January 2011
  #62
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
I don't think that is his point. There are two songs right now on the AC top 20 done in my B room ITB through a digi002. Does that mean the digi002 converters sound as good as my RADAR, Apogee's, or Studer? I don't think so. Now if this thread was about "how much does it matter" would get into that instead.
can we hear it please? so we all can comment about Aurora 16, Symphony and... digi 002... in the mainstream reality.. how about that?

i bet.. something's going to come out. I mean.. the final result.

cheers
Old 7th January 2011
  #63
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midnightsun's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah View Post
I think a bit of the confusion in this thread comes from people talking about Apogee converters instead of specifying WHICH Apogee converter. And by people, I largely am speaking for myself lol. When I was speaking of Apogee vs Lynx, I was thinking of the Rosetta and Aurora. Foolish considering the thread title says Symphony, but I was jumping around multiple threads and missed/forgot the title. The Symphony is a newer generation of converters which uses the latest technology and knowledge of components, so I don't think it makes much sense to compare the Aurora to the Symphony. Also the price point is nearly double.

That being said, I'm still curious as to how the Symphony is WAY better than the Aurora. What's different? Better stereo image? Depth? Clarity? Analog/color?

Regardless, for my studio, I can't afford to lay down $6000 for a Symphony when I have the Aurora. That's why I was asking in what way the Symphony was better than the Aurora, because it seems that the gains would be marginal as we're talking about converters here which, when you pass a certain threshold, as many in here agree, you'd get exponentially larger gains investing in better microphones or preamps.

That's where I'm at at least. The bottleneck in my studio isn't my converter. It's microphones, monitoring, and 2-bus compression(sans).
First of all, I have been a bad gearslut because I was unaware of the newest Apogee Symphony product. I owned the AD16X and the DA16X with a Symphony card and just realized they have what appears a great new Symphony I/O. Years ago the differences between converters was huge. The gap has narrowed.

I totally agree with your point that you will get exponentially larger gains investing in better mics and preamps. Never mind that mics and preamps will hold value. I sort of lost interest in the Holy Wars of converters a few years back. Of course, one can still argue that there are differences between the selection of great converters. Does it matter? Maybe, but I think an individual has to be mindful of features, use his ear, and stay within budget.

If I were convinced that another set of converters would work better for me I would buy them today. Since settling on the Auroras I have spent my money on new drums, mics, compressors, amps, preamps, etc.
Old 7th January 2011
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHROEDER View Post
can we hear it please? so we all can comment about Aurora 16, Symphony and... digi 002... in the mainstream reality.. how about that?

i bet.. something's going to come out. I mean.. the final result.

cheers
I sense facetiousness in your post ( which I don't appreciate). It is also non-sensical in relation to my post. Whatever, I'll play:

Ash Koley - Download Ash Koley Music on iTunes
Old 7th January 2011
  #65
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midnightsun's Avatar
 

Quote:
Nice to hear the fruits of great labors.
I really like Mary The Inventor and Don't Let Your Feet Touch the Ground. Job well done by Kats or whoever.
Old 7th January 2011
  #66
I own an Aurora 16 and thanks to Mike Harris @ Harris Audio I will test the Symphony and compare it with the Lynx Aurora 16.
Will take me some days to do it...

Will let u know...
Old 7th January 2011
  #67
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DeyBwah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
I own an Aurora 16 and thanks to Mike Harris @ Harris Audio I will test the Symphony and compare it with the Lynx Aurora 16.
Will take me some days to do it...

Will let u know...
Thanks AMIEL! Look forward to your experiences!
Old 7th January 2011
  #68
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DeyBwah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun View Post
First of all, I have been a bad gearslut because I was unaware of the newest Apogee Symphony product. I owned the AD16X and the DA16X with a Symphony card and just realized they have what appears a great new Symphony I/O. Years ago the differences between converters was huge. The gap has narrowed.

I totally agree with your point that you will get exponentially larger gains investing in better mics and preamps. Never mind that mics and preamps will hold value. I sort of lost interest in the Holy Wars of converters a few years back. Of course, one can still argue that there are differences between the selection of great converters. Does it matter? Maybe, but I think an individual has to be mindful of features, use his ear, and stay within budget.

If I were convinced that another set of converters would work better for me I would buy them today. Since settling on the Auroras I have spent my money on new drums, mics, compressors, amps, preamps, etc.
Considering I have gaping holes in my signal chain in the form of better microphones, a 2-bus compressor, a tracking compressor, a second set of monitors, more traps, a new guitar, a fretted bass guitar, etc...

I'll revisit converters maybe after the above holes are filled. Until then though, I'm still interested in hearing what people have to say regarding the converters out there. A true slut at heart!
Old 7th January 2011
  #69
Gear Head
 

we need a sample made with symphony i/o

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
I sense facetiousness in your post ( which I don't appreciate). It is also non-sensical in relation to my post. Whatever, I'll play:

Ash Koley - Download Ash Koley Music on iTunes


kats, I'm sorry then. Your music, it sounds really good..


cheers

Old 7th January 2011
  #70
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midnightsun's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah View Post

I'll revisit converters maybe after the above holes are filled. Until then though, I'm still interested in hearing what people have to say regarding the converters out there. A true slut at heart!
Aren't we all..... hmmmmm
Old 7th January 2011
  #71
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun View Post

If I were convinced that another set of converters would work better for me I would buy them today. Since settling on the Auroras I have spent my money on new drums, mics, compressors, amps, preamps, etc.
Yeah the Auroras are totally fine. I'm sure Apogee's latest offering is much better than the Auroras. I have the Forssell MADA, which is just insanely good and probably much better than any of these converters we are talking about. I use them for mastering as they do give that extra 5% whatever to the overall breath of a mix. But I track using my Aurora, as that what's tied into the patch bay and it sounds FINE. I also like that its 1 rack space for 16 io and there is no fan (its the little things). And its cheap.
Old 7th January 2011
  #72
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BradLyons's Avatar
 

A great analog front-end of mics and pres through so-so converters will always sound better than so-so mics and pres through great converters. Converters simply allow the gear to do its job. While some converters do have their own character, it's nothing like what say a Neve 1073 or a U47 will do to a sound. Converters ARE important, but not as important as its thought to be. I've had this discussion more times than I can even remember these days---- putting the cart before the horse as it's said.
Old 7th January 2011
  #73
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monsieur x's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
How do they compare? I have the Lynx Aurora 16 , and I am Looking for a new 16 DA .... for my summing.

also would be nice to know how the AD and DA compare between the Lynx and Apogee.
I would just get another Aurora 16 and be done with it. Nice, clean, simple and no new problems to troubleshoot.

Best,
Old 7th January 2011
  #74
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midnightsun's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Yeah the Auroras are totally fine. I'm sure Apogee's latest offering is much better than the Auroras. I have the Forssell MADA, which is just insanely good and probably much better than any of these converters we are talking about. I use them for mastering as they do give that extra 5% whatever to the overall breath of a mix. But I track using my Aurora, as that what's tied into the patch bay and it sounds FINE. I also like that its 1 rack space for 16 io and there is no fan (its the little things). And its cheap.
Totally agree. I have a Crangsong HEDD 192 and to my ear the converters are "better" than those of the Aurora. For hyper critical tracking I used to use the HEDD instead of the Aurora, but came to the realization that it just didn't matter in the final mix. So now do all of my tracking and summing through my two Aurora 16s. On the other hand when I am coming off my analog console for the final stereo print I absolutely prefer what the HEDD gives me. I am typically not using processing with the HEDD, only use it for the quality of its converters. In the end I think that it boils down to simply using the equipment that one his in his/her racks and learning what gives one the best final performance in the long run. Some things just aren't work obsessing over.

If I had to start from the beginning and purchase my tracking and summing converters I would figure out what I could purchase in racks of 8 or 16 to total 32, that were a reasonable price, and determine which converters had the features to work best with my DAW. I would also get a brand of converters that is of the quality that we are all speaking about. The only converters that I just did not like and didn't want to use under any circumstances were the older TASCAM, MOTU, and PT. Now the older RADAR converters I really liked. Again, I would probably purchase a second pair of converters to strap to my analog console stereo out for a final print to a separate recorder and not back to the DAW. This is just my preferred work flow. I would personally not use the Aurora or any of the Apogees (X-series or Rosetta) that I have heard for my final stereo print. Totally personal preference here
Old 8th January 2011
  #75
Anybody had problems with Maestro not recognizing Symphony

My Computer see Symphony//but Maestro does Not..
Old 8th January 2011
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun View Post
Nice to hear the fruits of great labors.
I really like Mary The Inventor and Don't Let Your Feet Touch the Ground. Job well done by Kats or whoever.
Most of it was recorded by Phil Deschambault who works out of my B room, I recorded some acoustics, made some drum samples, and some odds and ends on my side but the credit goes to him.

My only point in bringing this into the discussion is to show that hit songs have been recorded on all types of gear and has not much to do with what we are talking about here. Whether or not more hits were recorded with a Lynx or Apogee says nothing about which is a better converter - the point I wanted to make to Schroeder.

BTW "Midnight" that's a very nice compliment you give and Phil would certainly appreciate it, he's very humble but doesn't frequent audio sites to say so himself.
Old 8th January 2011
  #77
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun View Post
Nice to hear the fruits of great labors.
I really like Mary The Inventor and Don't Let Your Feet Touch the Ground. Job well done by Kats or whoever.

Mary The Inventor SOUNDS AWESOME... i think converters then are overrated.. great front and back end does the most of it.. and talent in the first place..

cheers
Old 8th January 2011
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHROEDER View Post
Mary The Inventor SOUNDS AWESOME... i think converters then are overrated.. great front and back end does the most of it.. and talent in the first place..

cheers
I really think converters are not overrated..we are testing and talking about top quality converters....so none of these converters suck.

all the chain matters...and of course nobody denies that talent is king, but this is GS.

Remember this is a game of inches, 10, 5, 20 % here and there make a big difference at the end.
Old 8th January 2011
  #79
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
I really think converters are not overrated..we are testing and talking about top quality converters....so none of these converters suck.

all the chain matters...and of course nobody denies that talent is king, but this is GS.

Remember this is a game of inches, 10, 5, 20 % here and there make a big difference at the end.
you are right... it was a bad joke there.. I bet that record could be sound a % better with other converters... still sound awesome.. congrats.. but personally.. i never think of use my 002 conversion for something serious.. its a very competitive world out there i still have doubts on expend my 6k on what converters.. auroras seem to sound pretty good but nobody here have posted a sample made with apogee s new stuff..

cheers
Old 8th January 2011
  #80
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It a funny thing. Mary The Inventor vocal was recorded with a Studio Projects LDC. Christ, we have C12's and 47's in the studio... Phil could just ask, but what are you gonna do? I left an ifet7 on his desk after awhile so half the record was sung with that mic. I did record the acoustics on that song though, a c12-->ua2192-->Helios.
Old 8th January 2011
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHROEDER View Post
you are right... it was a bad joke there.. I bet that record could be sound a % better with other converters... still sound awesome.. congrats.. but personally.. i never think of use my 002 conversion for something serious.. its a very competitive world out there i still have doubts on expend my 6k on what converters.. auroras seem to sound pretty good but nobody here have posted a sample made with apogee s new stuff..

cheers
will post files soon.
Old 10th January 2011
  #82
Gear Head
 

One can argue about what sounds better, colored or what not but it's pretty pointless since there are just too many variables there that make an objective decision pretty challenging starting with questionable listening environments and ending with people praising the units they have to reaffirm their choices.

We had an actual shootout in our showroom - 4 converters:
Symphony i/o, Hd i/o, 192 and Aurora 16. We also have a session here so if anybody is interested just shoot a PM. There were definitely some differences there but the point is - have a listen, this is the only adequate way.

Good luck!
Old 10th January 2011
  #83
Quote:
Originally Posted by chromatikmusic View Post
One can argue about what sounds better, colored or what not but it's pretty pointless since there are just too many variables there that make an objective decision pretty challenging starting with questionable listening environments and ending with people praising the units they have to reaffirm their choices.

We had an actual shootout in our showroom - 4 converters:
Symphony i/o, Hd i/o, 192 and Aurora 16. We also have a session here so if anybody is interested just shoot a PM. There were definitely some differences there but the point is - have a listen, this is the only adequate way.

Good luck!
True.....
Old 12th January 2011
  #84
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Hows your shootout Reuven ?
Old 13th January 2011
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS View Post
Hows your shootout Reuven ?
Hi Mike!

All good. will post a link pretty soon..will call you friday!!
Old 20th January 2011
  #86
Here for the gear
 

FWIW, just got the Lynx Aurora 16-VT and love the sound. More detail, a bigger, wider sound picture. No regrets. And, no, I don't work for any music dealer or gear company.
Tony
Old 20th January 2011
  #87
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Gearhero's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
It a funny thing. Mary The Inventor vocal was recorded with a Studio Projects LDC. Christ, we have C12's and 47's in the studio... Phil could just ask, but what are you gonna do? I left an ifet7 on his desk after awhile so half the record was sung with that mic. I did record the acoustics on that song though, a c12-->ua2192-->Helios.
I loved the song, the arrangement, the mix until I found out that it was recorded with the Digi 002 and Studio Project mics. Then it started to sound flat, dull, and cheap. dfegad

But seriously people yammer on how much "great" converters make a difference, yet no one can hear the difference. If the Digi 002 can be used to make a song like the one kats posted then these conversations are really pointless. It becomes less of a game of inches than a game of nanometers.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhero View Post
I loved the song, the arrangement, the mix until I found out that it was recorded with the Digi 002 and Studio Project mics. Then it started to sound flat, dull, and cheap. dfegad

But seriously people yammer on how much "great" converters make a difference, yet no one can hear the difference. If the Digi 002 can be used to make a song like the one kats posted then these conversations are really pointless. It becomes less of a game of inches than a game of nanometers.
Think about this though. What went through mics and converters? Vocals, acGTR, DI bass. We cannot have achieved the same results in a full band situation. Moreover, I contend that we could have made sonic improvements using a better chain. Would it have made the song more popular? Probably not, especially considering the average listeners playback system.

My point was that you cannot judge how good gear is based on commercial success. Just because MJ sold millions of records with an SM7, does not mean Nora Jones would have sounded just as good with one instead of an M49.

Basically, use what you've got. It won't hold you back. But if your a commercial facility there's a big difference. You cannot fine tune one chain that works for you and your workflow. You have to be able to make any singer or instrument sound great under varying circumstances - and fast.
Old 26th January 2011
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
will post files soon.
????
Old 26th January 2011
  #90
Gear Maniac
 

Get another Lynx to avoid any driver clashes.
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