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Has anyone noticed the Manley ELOP just jumped in price $600 bucks?
Old 31st December 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
MicJunkie's Avatar
 

Has anyone noticed the Manley ELOP just jumped in price $600 bucks?

Has anyone noticed the Manley ELOP just jumped in price $600 bucks?
Whats the story here? This is one reason why this unit has been so popular the price for two channels, 2299.99 or so, now nearly 3,000.00. I feel they are just jumping on the high price wagon along with Vertigo and Retro, and this economy cannot support these price hikes. With many Recording studios going out of business this is not warranted at this time. This is also not a result of inflation as inflation is a gradual change. Manley, I love you, but adjust your pricing for this unit.
Old 31st December 2010
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicJunkie View Post
I feel they are just jumping on the high price wagon along with Vertigo and Retro, and this economy cannot support these price hikes. This is also not a result of inflation as inflation is a gradual change.
I personally think that's an unfair, and inaccurate assessment. My guess (but an educated one based on my own experience in manufacturing our own brand), is that they've been holding back a price increase for some years now, due to ever increasing overhead costs. Rent/Mortgage, insurance, labour, taxes, parts, etc don't decrease due to a recession. Property tax will probably decrease and only because of a real estate bubble that's popped, but that's about it, everything else goes up. Although, if Cali is like much of the rest of the country, property values have fallen 20-50% that may never recover fully. Fuel costs and metal work prices are probably 75% of the increase on the product.

The US government will tell you that inflation in the US is 1%. But commodities like fuel, food and metals are the real tell tale. The Elop is worth every penny if not more of $3k USD. It's a USA made product (by a rare, self contained manufacturer who machines most of their parts, and who very likely pays extremely fair for their skilled US labour). Manley even does things to keep costs down (aside from machining) like owning their building instead of renting, and using solar power to suppliment the pathetic Californian infrastructure.

There are used elops on the market, and because of the high end build quality they will last for a lifetime if taken care of. Personally, I'd rather see prices go up a bit, and see customers support US (and all western countries in general) than for those companies to go out of business (or be a shell of their former selves) and all the manufacturing and jobs go to Asia just so the consumer can have it for half price. Just my .13 Yuan (currently equivalent of 2 US cents).
Old 31st December 2010
  #3
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I think it's likely that Manley took a look around and realized the ELOP was underpriced. A stereo/ dual mono tube opto limiter with Manley sound and build quality for under 2 grand (street)? I always found it strange that it was so cheap. I had 2 of them, sold one because I didn't need four channels, and only regret I didn't wait until the price hike to sell it. If you haven't already got one, better jump on over to ebay before word gets out...

Last edited by Eganmedia; 31st December 2010 at 05:00 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 31st December 2010
  #4
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I love my ELOP, I think it is worth the new price for sure. The Dual Mono Pre just went up to $2900 from $2160 also and I think it is worth it too!

Good stuff costs real money.
Old 31st December 2010
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
I personally think that's an unfair, and inaccurate assessment. My guess (but an educated one based on my own experience in manufacturing our own brand), is that they've been holding back a price increase for some years now, due to ever increasing overhead costs. Rent/Mortgage, insurance, labour, taxes, parts, etc don't decrease due to a recession. Property tax will probably decrease and only because of a real estate bubble that's popped, but that's about it, everything else goes up. Although, if Cali is like much of the rest of the country, property values have fallen 20-50% that may never recover fully. Fuel costs and metal work prices are probably 75% of the increase on the product.

The US government will tell you that inflation in the US is 1%. But commodities like fuel, food and metals are the real tell tale. The Elop is worth every penny if not more of $3k USD. It's a USA made product (by a rare, self contained manufacturer who machines most of their parts, and who very likely pays extremely fair for their skilled US labour). Manley even does things to keep costs down (aside from machining) like owning their building instead of renting, and using solar power to suppliment the pathetic Californian infrastructure.

There are used elops on the market, and because of the high end build quality they will last for a lifetime if taken care of. Personally, I'd rather see prices go up a bit, and see customers support US (and all western countries in general) than for those companies to go out of business (or be a shell of their former selves) and all the manufacturing and jobs go to Asia just so the consumer can have it for half price. Just my .13 Yuan (currently equivalent of 2 US cents).
Thats ridiculous... to validate a 25%+ increase in price... Thats a HUGE relative increase and your first paragraph is pure psychobabble...

Again, this isn't 10% or 15%- its over 25%.

Is the unit still worth it- sure, agreed. But man is that some incredible logic you've got cracking...

Salesman jargon.
Old 31st December 2010
  #6
Gear Head
 

they bumped up the price of several of their products, including their pultec. the pultec only went up a few hundred, but others were closer to $600. i was thinking about pulling the trigger on a manley eq, and they all went up in December, so no thanks!
Old 31st December 2010
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDingus View Post
Thats ridiculous... to validate a 25%+ increase in price... Thats a HUGE relative increase and your first paragraph is pure psychobabble...

Again, this isn't 10% or 15%- its over 25%.

Is the unit still worth it- sure, agreed. But man is that some incredible logic you've got cracking...

Ok, so instead of telling me that I'm FOS, enlighten us as to what your theory is - that they did it to be greedy? That's more logical than blaming it on increased manufacturing costs? And how does a list of specific overhead costs with the idea that the CODB has increased each year since Manleys last price increase equal psychobabble? The dam broke, and everyone has been enjoying the low constant river artificially for years. If I had Manleys cost of doing business (I don't know specifics but I can roughly estimate), I wouldn't be able to sleep nearly as well at night.

I don't personally see the logic of selling an item for $100 when it cost you $65 to make in 2003, but now costs you $90 to make in 2011. Where does that leave room for the growth of the manufacturer, or for treating their distribution network fairly?

Anyone who has ever been in business doing any kind of manufacturing, or worked for, or has in any way been associated with a manufacturer in the last decade knows what I'm talking about - parts, labour, shipping, and insurance aren't getting less expensive (or maybe you disagree)?

But hey, I've been doing this (read: talking to makers of gear about numbers, as dealer and or distributor) for 10 years, and head deep in manufacturing for almost 4 years. But your statement is fair - I'm only saying all this to manipulate you with "salesman jargon" not to help the OP understand why this has happened (<--all said sarcastically). BTW, we don't sell Manley.

Psychobabble (a portmanteau of "psychology" or "psychoanalysis" and "babble") is a form of prose using jargon, buzzwords and highly esoteric language to give an impression of plausibility through mystification, misdirection, and obfuscation.


Quote:
Salesman jargon.
Oct 2010?
Old 31st December 2010
  #8
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superiorsound's Avatar
 

I love my manley mastering compressor even had it modded. The Elop was on my list next however not anymore with the price hike! Sorry a bit much. Thats the power of supply and demand!
Old 31st December 2010
  #9
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mister sunshine's Avatar
 

I purchased and returned a ELOP 8 months ago for two reasons.

1) It arrived DOA.

2) The circuit board was a mess. It looked like it had been recycled thru quality control several times before it was sent out as a brand new item.

Miss Manley specifically explained to me that they couldn't afford to send everyone a nice clean example. Well, she didn't say it that politely... but that's the gist of what I was told.

Maybe they simply need the extra budget to maintain a standard of quality.

That makes sense to me.

best regards,
mike
Old 31st December 2010
  #10
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
i hope EveAnna doesnt mind me posting some of her letter notifying dealers of the increase...but please see below

"The time has finally come, after more than 20 years, to raise our prices. I don't need to explain how material and labor costs have gone up quite a bit in the last few years.
The prices are going up an average of 12%. Some units stay the same. Some go up a little bit. Some go up a lot. All the calculations were based upon our real build costs. When I look inside our units I see it clearly. We build pro audio gear with audiophile parts and these exotic and oftentimes hand-made parts are never cheap! And then we have to have around 40 loyal employees building this gear all by hand in Chino, not China."

BTW...the Ref Cardiod price remains the same

Nathans first hand explanation is spot on
Old 31st December 2010
  #11
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Has anyone noticed the Manley ELOP just jumped in price $600 bucks?

I don't know how many are sold; but if the number is small many manufacturers will build a batch, or a batch of parts that only need final assembly. When this runs out they will build another batch.

A large price increase like this is often an indication of this; the price stays stable for several years because the parts already exist at an old price. When a new batch is needed the price is recalculated at the current build cost, hence a larger than expected price increase.

Not saying this is the case here, just a possible explanation.


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Old 31st December 2010
  #12
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If they want to increase, let them increase. You can vote with your dollar if you approve of it or not. (Owner of an ELOP in the racks that doesn't get used much these days)

Other companies are pricing lower (albeit not audio companies). The BMW new generation 5-er, (F10) is cheaper than its equivalent last generation (E60) so they have a different outlook and business plan.

Whatever makes people happy man..... Happy New Year to everyone.
Old 31st December 2010
  #13
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
I certainly understand manufacturing costs going up - especially since they are made in the US - and made in CA makes things even worse. (CA must be the most ANTI-manufacturing climate in the US.)

HOWEVER -

Have they noticed what's going on in the industry?

Maybe their market is now to trust fund studios and/or collectors. Certainly most work-a-day studios will no longer be able to afford their products. That's a sad day indeed......
Old 1st January 2011
  #14
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Groceries go up more than 12% a year, nearly every year for quite a while. How many years has it been since Manley raised the price?
Old 1st January 2011
  #15
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Groceries go up more than 12% a year, nearly every year for quite a while. How many years has it been since Manley raised the price?
This is My point. If they've produced without a significant price increase for so many years, there is no surprise in the jump being a significant as it is. (I own a ELOP, Dual Pultec, and Dual Mic Pre.

Love them all and they've worked great for MANY years.
Old 1st January 2011
  #16
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Marcocet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Groceries go up more than 12% a year, nearly every year for quite a while. How many years has it been since Manley raised the price?
bingo

Also, as a side note, economically the cost to build a product and it's value are not related. Value is what someone will pay for it. It has nothing to do with what it costs to build something. How much do you think it costs netgear to make a router they sell for $65? Does it matter? How much were the indentured servents who made your sneakers paid? Does that really explain how much you paid for them?

While I'm absolutely certain Manley would only raise the prices because they need to in order to continue business that doesn't even matter here. They can charge whatever they want! If you think it's worth it you pay, if not you don't. There's no evil secret motive here to ruin small studios, they're charging what they believe their product to be worth. Period. If they're wrong and they can't sell them at that price it will hurt their overall profits instead of helping and the prices will go back down. However being pretty comfortable with Manley products I can say that's extremely unlikely.

As a side note I highly recommend studying at least some economics before you start insinuating things about anyone involved in the transfer of money. That goes from Apple computers to your hairdresser.
Old 1st January 2011
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by McDingus View Post
Thats ridiculous... to validate a 25%+ increase in price... Thats a HUGE relative increase and your first paragraph is pure psychobabble...

Again, this isn't 10% or 15%- its over 25%.

Is the unit still worth it- sure, agreed. But man is that some incredible logic you've got cracking...

Salesman jargon.
Just a comment by someone that is probably inexperienced in the (manufacturing) world and indoctrinated in school to believe that corporations are inherently evil. These opinion usually exist until someone has to make a living on their own hook for a few years, then the light comes on. Too bad it does not happen sooner.

Was this the smartest way to pass on a price increase, probably not. But when you are in a recession and see your profits eroding, you only have a few choices; increases prices, reduce quality and cost, or go out of business. This chap evidently thinks one of the latter two is preferable and is certainly entitled to his opinion.
Old 1st January 2011
  #18
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Storyville's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil456 View Post
Just a comment by someone that is probably inexperienced in the (manufacturing) world and indoctrinated in school to believe that corporations are inherently evil. These opinion usually exist until someone has to make a living on their own hook for a few years, then the light comes on. Too bad it does not happen sooner.

Was this the smartest way to pass on a price increase, probably not. But when you are in a recession and see your profits eroding, you only have a few choices; increases prices, reduce quality and cost, or go out of business. This chap evidently thinks one of the latter two is preferable and is certainly entitled to his opinion.
Sometimes it can come down to a demand issue as well. I don't know the figures, but when things sell well - they tend to start going up in price.

Sometimes, and only sometimes, when things don't sell well, they'll go up in price as well.

My guess is that the overall parts and labor expenses went up - so they ran a shorter run at higher prices. Supply over demand - if the demand is consistent and expenses increase, diminish the supply and increase the cost.

But I largely agree with Dr. Bill. The trends of the music biz would caution against a large price hike. Then again - there's always the question of the market demographic. Are the people who bought it at 2,400 unwilling to buy it for 2,999?
Old 1st January 2011
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
But I largely agree with Dr. Bill. The trends of the music biz would caution against a large price hike. Then again - there's always the question of the market demographic. Are the people who bought it at 2,400 unwilling to buy it for 2,999?
Unless there has been a change in senior management or ownership, a small company would have agonized over this magnitude of decision for a long time. This is especially true if they are well run financially. My guess, having worked with a lot of small manufacturers, is that they really did not have any choice.

This price increase could have been triggered by low product sales or low company wide sales. Its possible that this particular product is not selling well and will be killed off if they cannot find a profitable price and volume. Or it could be that the company will not survive if they cannot find a company wide profitable price and volume. The point is not to speculate about the future, or to infer that the company is having problems because we cannot know that. If they are well run, then they are doing exactly what is required to survive.

But as was mentioned in an earlier post, the buyer has a chance to vote. If you are pissed about the price increase and want to punish the company then do not buy their products and rant on forums about how unfair the price increase is. Try to get everyone against them. The likely result is that the company will struggle to survive.

If on the other hand you find their products useful and the company worthy then the only vote is one of confidence. If you have the money and need, go and buy at the higher price and post in forums about how valuable the product is at the new price. This is the only way to assure the company/product has the best chance to succeed in these tough times.

And you may not be in a position to vote because you are also effected by the economy. That's life.

In 5 years time, do you want yet another quality manufacturer driven out of business and the local employees out of a job? Yes or no? (not targeted to Storyville)
Old 1st January 2011
  #20
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mister sunshine's Avatar
 

One word: Stagflation.
Old 1st January 2011
  #21
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drBill's Avatar
A little off topic, but it speaks to the general problem we're encountering in the "pro" audio biz - take a look at console manufacturers in the mid to late 90's moving into the new millenium and what happened to them.

Diversify, change their product line (cheaper/smaller), move manufacturing off-shore (China), or die. Most are now gone. They died. SSL is building mini-consoles and rack gear and moving into plug-ins, D&R builds broadcast only for the most part, etc.. Amek, Soundtracks, Soundcraft (for the most part), Trident (the real one), Otari, Sony, etc. all pretty much gone. Dead.

New, cheap, flimsy, disposable, mediocre meh stuff EXPLODING from China. Read the writing on the wall......

A company HAS to make a fair profit. But there are times that demand moving down market instead of up. Here's to wishing the best for a new year and for hoping that Manley knows something that we don't.
Old 1st January 2011
  #22
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ddageek's Avatar
 

Has anyone noticed the Manley ELOP just jumped in price $600 bucks?

Most manufactures hold prices as long they can price changes are expensive.
Gas went up 2 days ago and the day before ect.
Don't like the price by used! Or something else !
I give Eva Ann alot of credit, she makes great gear, employees people here in the USA . She's a gutsy and t
Rebuilt Manley into a great company!
Old 1st January 2011
  #23
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idylldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil456 View Post
Unless there has been a change in senior management or ownership, a small company would have agonized over this magnitude of decision for a long time. This is especially true if they are well run financially. My guess, having worked with a lot of small manufacturers, is that they really did not have any choice.
Agreed. It wouldn't have been a decision taken lightly in the current economic climate. I hope it works out for them because they build quality gear in the U.S., and that's becoming pretty scarce these days.

Cheers,
--
Don
Old 2nd January 2011
  #24
I have the highest respect for EveAnna and the Manley crew. They built gear that is top notch,and their gear sounds amazing. If something happen to my Voxbox, Mini Massive or other Manley gear that I have now and I had to replace it now with today's price or buy something else, I can tell you without hesitation that I would buy all my Manley gear again. For me it's well worth it even at their current price.

Manley gear is like owning Rolex watch, and I feel dam proud to have their gear every time I walk into my studio. heh
Old 2nd January 2011
  #25
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RedTuxedo's Avatar
Wow!! My Manley SLAM! which were listed for $6500 with the converters when I bought it, is now $7400 without the converters (which are discontinued, they are some of the best converters I've tried).



And the Manley Backbone that I bought for $3850 and sold for $3400 is now $6000!!



I don't blame them though. They still make great pieces for reasonable prices compared to many of their competitors.

I hope Great River doesn't follow...
Old 2nd January 2011
  #26
Gear Nut
 
Randyman...'s Avatar
 

The Langevin DVC also jumped from the steady $1800 (same price for a decade or so) straight to $2350 just recently (~30% increase ) Glad I got my 2009 version for $1050 heh

30% overnight is a bit extreme, no? Maybe the opto cells are becoming hard to source? (Same ones in the Manley IIRC - just SS instead of HT Tube)

Old 2nd January 2011
  #27
Gear Addict
 

Its hard to see the DVC take that kind of a jump. Guess I'm going with the mike-e now.
Old 2nd January 2011
  #28
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Well, I know a good many of the people in the high end manufacturing business now, and the only ones who light their cubans with c-notes are the ones who came *into* the biz with large stacks of cash in the first place.

And none of us, no matter our financial state, would implement any kind of price increase without a tremendous amount of brow-sweating and a damn good business reason for doing so.

Manley makes amazing gear and have been doing it longer than almost any other player in the game today, their stuff is a work of art inside. I wish them nothing but continued success and prosperity. thumbsup


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 2nd January 2011
  #29
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666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcocet View Post

...value is what someone will pay for it... has nothing to do with what it costs to build...

...If you think it's worth it, you pay, if not you don't....
I agree. This is the bottom line. No need to be assessing the economic technicalities, it's pointless.

Overall, compared to all other similar gear out there, the ELOP, DVC etc is certainly well worth what Manley is now asking, in terms of sheer quality. Absolutely. It's still a bargain in that regard really.

But it is ultimately a matter of whether or not it's worth it to YOU, based on your own needs / preferences. If you can appreciate and utilize the amazing quality that Manley offers, then an ELOP for instance might be worth $5k to you. And if an ELOP is not the right thing for your situation, then it might be worth zero to you.

It doesn't matter AT ALL what these units had cost a few months ago. All that matters is what it costs right now... and is it worth it to you. It's very simple. If you want to reminisce about the past and cry and complain, you will ultimately be unsuccessful anyway. You cannot survive with that type of attitude.

OK, sure, it's a little frustrating to realize that if you bought a given unit a few months earlier you would have spent $600 less or whatever, but get over it and get on with your work. You cannot progress if you are stuck in the past. It's very unhealthy to worry about what was happening yesterday. Yesterday is GONE FOREVER... so FORGET it.

The DVC especially was WAY under-priced for many years. I have commented on this forum many times over the years that Manley was giving that thing away. Two awesome mic pres, two awesome opto limiters, two awesome DIs, and two eqs too, with plenty of I/O, very flexible, all for just $1800...? That was absurd. If the new price is $2350 that's STILL an amazing deal!!! Jeez. How can you guys complain?

Indeed the only way I can look at it is that Manley stuff was under-priced all these years and now they're finally bringing the prices up to where they should be, considering the VERY high level of quality. I'd still buy any given Manley unit today without hesitation. Prices are still fair and reasonable. Quality costs, it just does.

People always want something for nothing, human nature I guess. But I am always happy to pay reasonably for any worthy product. If I like a product and a company, I want to support it.

With the above in mind, finally if the masses are not willing to pay for an ELOP now, and if indeed Manley MUST charge what they're charging in order to make a profit on it, eventually they'll have to discontinue it. And boy, it would be a DAMN shame if that ever happens. So all the people who are crying now about the new price, what will you be saying when you can't even get one anymore? What will you be willing to pay at THAT point for a mint, rare, discontinued ELOP? Right NOW might be the best time to buy a new one!!!

And to the guy who claims he bought a new Manley unit and it was a bit messed up from day one, don't know what to say about that, I NEVER heard a story like this, ever. I've bought a LOT of brand new Manley units over the years and they've ALWAYS arrived to me in PERFECT, MINT, FLAWLESS condition. The quality has always astounded me. When you buy a Manley, you're getting some seriously good stuff.

Manley ROCKS!
Old 2nd January 2011
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
mister sunshine's Avatar
 

You may search out a thread in the Geekslutz area to see what a brand new dead on arrival Manley ELOP looked like last summer.

You will clearly see that Ms Manley stood behind the workmanship that they sent out as the best I should expect.

I returned it with prepaid shipping for a full refund and bought a Tube Tech CL-1B. An item made by a company that shares my opinion that tube gear is or can be incredibly durable, not fragile as the Manley service dept suggested to me.

Lyndcraft encourages owners to appreciate the incredible workmanship that they offer and happily posts photos of their guts.

When I posted unidentified photos of my Manley ELOP's guts asking if the workmanship would satisfy a gear slut I was treated as a criminal.

I did not ask for help here until I was denied a clean replacement by Manley and I never identified the item I was concerned about when I posted the pictures. I just wanted to know if a gear slut would accept the workmanship evidenced in the photos as high end and then Ms Manley made it clear that I should just return the unit for a full refund.

So, no Manley for me. There are too many alternatives.

best regards,
mike

Last edited by mister sunshine; 2nd January 2011 at 05:10 PM.. Reason: spellng
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