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What to use for Upper Mid push for electric guitars? Dynamic Microphones
Old 28th December 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

What to use for Upper Mid push for electric guitars?

My favorite recorded tones for electric guitars seem to have this beautiful "pushed" upper midrange. Seems to be 2khz-4khz. Its a very delicate line when boosting this area. Not enough=too dull. To much=harsh. How do I achieve that harmonically rich, smooth push in this area. I'm using a R-121>Chandler TG2>Chandler Tone Control>Anamod>UA2192>Logic
Old 28th December 2010
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Neve EQ
Old 28th December 2010
  #3
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HudHudson's Avatar
 

1176
Old 28th December 2010
  #4
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How about trying a mic that isn't so dull?
Old 28th December 2010
  #5
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Since I work in the box...for now...I use a Meekqualizer. Seems to work well for distorted guitars.
Old 28th December 2010
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
How about trying a mic that isn't so dull?
I've got to have my ribbon. I've grown to hate dynamics. Always thin and brittle sounding. I have a 57, I5, and a 906. Already sold the 421. Hated it the most.
Old 28th December 2010
  #7
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jchadstopherhuez's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Monster View Post
My favorite recorded tones for electric guitars seem to have this beautiful "pushed" upper midrange. Seems to be 2khz-4khz. Its a very delicate line when boosting this area. Not enough=too dull. To much=harsh. How do I achieve that harmonically rich, smooth push in this area. I'm using a R-121>Chandler TG2>Chandler Tone Control>Anamod>UA2192>Logic
i know you don't want to hear this....but...with that chain...i'd be looking/listening more to your amp/guitar/room situation.

i'm not sure how a good sounding amp could possibly not sound pretty much amazing if the r121 into a tg2 AND tone control and then to the anamod..and the ua a-d.... is placed in the vicinity of the amplifier's speaker.

do you like the guitar sound BEFORE it hits the mic ?

good luck,

best,

jchristopherhughes
Old 28th December 2010
  #8
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Chris Parsons's Avatar
 

Ditto, you've got an amazing signal chain. Maybe move the mic toward the center of the cone a bit? What are some examples of the tone you're going for?

-Chris
Old 28th December 2010
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Monster View Post
I've got to have my ribbon. I've grown to hate dynamics. Always thin and brittle sounding. I have a 57, I5, and a 906. Already sold the 421. Hated it the most.
I've got all of those but the i5 and those are great mics for that "push", blend them and see what happens.
Old 28th December 2010
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Parsons View Post
Ditto, you've got an amazing signal chain. Maybe move the mic toward the center of the cone a bit? What are some examples of the tone you're going for?

-Chris
I'm going for a simliar tone to Garage Inc. from Metallica. Juicy, Juicy upper mids. Yet, so smooth. Zero harshness.
Old 28th December 2010
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixman499 View Post
i know you don't want to hear this....but...with that chain...i'd be looking/listening more to your amp/guitar/room situation.

i'm not sure how a good sounding amp could possibly not sound pretty much amazing if the r121 into a tg2 AND tone control and then to the anamod..and the ua a-d.... is placed in the vicinity of the amplifier's speaker.

do you like the guitar sound BEFORE it hits the mic ?

good luck,

best,

jchristopherhughes
I never said it sounds bad I'm going for perfection.
Old 28th December 2010
  #12
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You can always go for mesa amps, works every time.
Old 28th December 2010
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
You can always go for mesa amps, works every time.
Covered. Mark III.
Old 28th December 2010
  #14
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Sofa King's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Monster View Post
My favorite recorded tones for electric guitars seem to have this beautiful "pushed" upper midrange. Seems to be 2khz-4khz. Its a very delicate line when boosting this area. Not enough=too dull. To much=harsh. How do I achieve that harmonically rich, smooth push in this area. I'm using a R-121>Chandler TG2>Chandler Tone Control>Anamod>UA2192>Logic
maybe a heavier pick, or moving back towards the bridge a bit?
Old 28th December 2010
  #15
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is your room treated?
Old 28th December 2010
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
is your room treated?
yessir
Old 28th December 2010
  #17
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Monster View Post
I'm going for a simliar tone to Garage Inc. from Metallica. Juicy, Juicy upper mids. Yet, so smooth. Zero harshness.

The thing about using albums as benchmarks for guitar tones is that you're hearing the marriage of the bass and guitar on those records. The guitars are thinner than most people suspect, and the bass fills them out and makes them sound warm and full.

When you listen to a commercial record you're also hearing the effect of mastering, which tends to help a lot with getting smooth, shiny upper mids and presence.

This also probably falls under the category of 'not what you wanted to hear', but it's true nonetheless.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 28th December 2010
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
The thing about using albums as benchmarks for guitar tones is that you're hearing the marriage of the bass and guitar on those records. The guitars are thinner than most people suspect, and the bass fills them out and makes them sound warm and full.

When you listen to a commercial record you're also hearing the effect of mastering, which tends to help a lot with getting smooth, shiny upper mids and presence.

This also probably falls under the category of 'not what you wanted to hear', but it's true nonetheless.


Gregory Scott - ubk
There are multiple places on that album where the guitar is soloed. I always focus on those parts for the bass/marriage reason. I'm sure your right on the mastering part.
Old 28th December 2010
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Maybe I need a Clariphonic....hmmm.....
Old 28th December 2010
  #20
I'd just blend in a decent dynamic mic; with the R121 this should be all you need.
Old 28th December 2010
  #21
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Blend the 57 with the R121, that's usually my choice
Old 28th December 2010
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Fret View Post
Blend the 57 with the R121, that's usually my choice
Or kill 2 birds with 1 stone and use a Beyer M160
Old 28th December 2010
  #23
Helios type 69 has my favorite upper midrange for heavier gtr
Old 28th December 2010
  #24
Normally, I get results you're speaking of using a Royer 121 or a 421, but you can also get more "zing" in this area using a 441 or a U87.

Mic placement is also something you should consider. Where are you placing the mic(s) in relation to the speaker cone? towards the dustcap you get more of the presence you are asking for, and the sound mellows toward the middle of the cone. The closer the microphone, the more proximity and presence.

The "modern rock guitar sound" is often achieved with a new high-gain amp like a dual or triple rectifier, and using celestion greenback speakers or equivalent ceramics. The Mesa open-back 2x12 cab loaded with a brace of good dynamic ceramic magnet speakers will definitely help the cause as well.

I've recorded tons of metal and hard-rock and always please the customers following the afore-mentioned guidelines.
Best of luck!

Ward
Old 28th December 2010
  #25
Upper mids are usually the easiest thing to get out of an amp, IME there are always an over abundance of them (regardless of room type) and I usually have to mellow them out (along with the cardboard low mids). I'd say concentrate on the mic first, if the nasal already upper mid pushed SM-57 isn't doing it, then an AKG D112 very much will (and rip your head off in the process).
Old 28th December 2010
  #26
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Just add a 57 along side your 121 and you can mix in all the upper mid push you want
Old 28th December 2010
  #27
Gear Maniac
 

What's the gauge on the guitar strings?
Old 28th December 2010
  #28
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Monster View Post
Covered. Mark III.
Mesa-Boogie Mark 2C amp (re-wired as a pre-amp)
Marshall 100 watt power amp
Marshall 4x12 cabinets
sm57 to neve style preamp
low end is filtered a lot
Old 28th December 2010
  #29
Gear Maniac
 

Yes, a dynamic will get you all the upper mids you could ever want (especially running V30s) but not with a smooth character like a ribbon. I need smooth upper mids. Wondering if I record to two tracks, leave one as is, then on the other, high and low pass leaving only the upper mids then play with the fader........BRB.........
Old 28th December 2010
  #30
Gear Addict
 
janek 68's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Monster View Post
My favorite recorded tones for electric guitars seem to have this beautiful "pushed" upper midrange. Seems to be 2khz-4khz. Its a very delicate line when boosting this area. Not enough=too dull. To much=harsh. How do I achieve that harmonically rich, smooth push in this area. I'm using a R-121>Chandler TG2>Chandler Tone Control>Anamod>UA2192>Logic
What`s the problem if you have TG2 and Tone Control - i use the same pre and eq with ribbons...?
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