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Gefell Vs Neumann -SDC Condenser Microphones
Old 21st December 2010
  #1
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Gefell Vs Neumann -SDC

I went to order a KM184 from pro audio solutions. I've alwasy liked those mics. Then I got a call from their salesman telling me that he would do a Gefell M300 for the same price and also said it's a better mic all around. Now I'm not sure what to do. Opinions? I use it to mono record acoustic guitar.
Old 21st December 2010
  #2
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idylldon's Avatar
 

M300, hands down.

Cheers,
--
Don
Old 21st December 2010
  #3
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cinealta's Avatar
 

I had the same question. Here's a review I found:

Microtech Gefell M300
Old 21st December 2010
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idylldon View Post
M300, hands down.

Cheers,
--
Don

So why would you say you like the m300 better?
Old 21st December 2010
  #5
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idylldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzarkRoots View Post
So why would you say you like the m300 better?
Never much cared for the highs with the 184. To my ears, the M300 seems more balanced all the way around. Of course and as always, it really depends on what you're looking for as far as an acoustic guitar sound goes, the sound of the guitar itself, the rest of the recording chain, and the room you're recording in. Is there a way for you to try both and decide which one works best for you and what you're trying to accomplish?

Cheers,
--
Don
Old 21st December 2010
  #6
The M300 is very much a preferable microphone to the KM184 in my humble opinion. The KM184 [the modern iteration] has always sounded a tad "brash" to me, and loud. Very loud. It has a very bright sound that when coupled with it's loudness - I simply do not take to its sound on anything, really. Even stuff that should be bright. I just don't understand that microphone. Its not bad hardware, its just a little off putting. IMO,IMO,IMO. I guess if you are using some DARK stuff and want some SUN LIGHT it might make sense. Gotta try one. The M300 has a drier sound than any vintage KM84 I've heard/used. It has less thickness/color, but has a LOT of detail and DOES have smooth treble response that is extended and non-harsh. It does seem to have some ROUNDNESS of transient info - but it never detracts from quick pickup and detail. Basically, it does seem to gather some non-linearities in the HF - when put closer to sources, even though the microphone does not use any output transformer. I do find the M300 amazing for any stereo setups, piano, acoustic GTR, drum overheads, spot miking cymbals, H/H's for jazz stuff, any certainly for any small string instrument. Sometimes its a great snare mike as well! Though nothing crazy loud, as that is better suited for the infamous Josephson e22s, which indeed kicks some serious tail in more than one place. More than 20 places.
Old 21st December 2010
  #7
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waxx's Avatar
 

i can only agree with the praises on the M300. Others from Gefel (the M29x series) are also very good btw.

I think the 184 is a bit harsh and way to bright for most applications. There are many sdc's who do way better. But it's still usable
Old 21st December 2010
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
The KM184 [the modern iteration] has always sounded a tad "brash" to me, and loud. Very loud. It has a very bright sound that when coupled with it's loudness - ...
Perhaps turn your preamp down. And EQ works wonders as well.
Old 21st December 2010
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Perhaps turn your preamp down. And EQ works wonders as well.
Hey David,

Well, I seem to recall that microphone having a louder output than others. Though I don't use those microphones often so I am not any type of authority on them. We have a TLM103 here and that microphone is screaming hot!!! But, I am certainly conscious of the difference between the output level of a microphone and input level of a preamp. Also, I generally find the best type of equalizer for any type of compensation during a recording - is a different and more appropriate microphone for the source, but surely there are some amazing options for hardware and software equalizers out there that can attempt to compensate and quell the blunt edge in the top end of certain microphones in efforts to smooth the sound. Don't get me wrong, this is just an opinion, I can certainly see where this microphone would follow an aesthetic, it just doesn't follow mine.

peace
Old 21st December 2010
  #10
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jnorman's Avatar
i have owned pairs of both, and they are both fine microphones. i do chamber music and classical instrumentation, so smooth response, depth, and musicality are what i look for in SDCs. additionaly, i have owned DPA 4011s, schoeps CMC64s, akg c481s and 461s, and almost everything else out there, so i have a pretty fair perspective on how all those mics compare.

the km184 and m300 are very similar to each other sonically, with the m300 have a bit more low-mid emphasis. the top end response on those two mics is pretty indistinguishable. neither is a flat mic, like the cmc64, 4011, or c481, and so, if what you need is flat, you have to learn to use the mic differerently. both the 184 and m300 are excellent acoustic guitar mics, right up at the top of the list of everything i have ever used.

btw, after owning and using so many pairs of nice SDCs over the years, my current main pair of SDCs for classical work (my center ORTF pair) are KM140s. i posted a thread on the gear shootouts forum comparing the km184 to the km140 in case you want to hear them. there are many other interesting comparative threads in the shootout forum - many focusing specifically on a wide variety of SDCs.

anyway, you really cant go wrong with either the m300s or km184s, but my personal choice is the km184, of those two.
Old 21st December 2010
  #11
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In my opinion, both km184 and m300 is very good mic for the price. My experience tells me that m300 has a bit fuller / softer sound than km184, and km184 is brighter. I always need a lot of EQ when I use km184 on AC.
Old 21st December 2010
  #12
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
I had the same question. Here's a review I found:

Microtech Gefell M300
Thank you for the link. I prefer KM184 and KM84 takes.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #13
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I would try a Schoeps before I went with either of the mics you're pondering.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #14
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cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitreouswindows View Post
I would try a Schoeps before I went with either of the mics you're pondering.
The mics the OP mentioned are both under $1k. He should also consider auditioning an older AKG 451 or 451E.

But heck, if we're going to open it up to Schoeps CMC6+MK4 or MK21, then the OP should consider a B&K 4003 through a Millenia Media HV-3. It sounds superb on acoustic guitar, violin, cello etc.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #15
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ARIEL's Avatar
I find the KM184 is great for overheads on cymbal work and excellent for Ride or Hi Hat as well - It seems to make the Ride more punchy and defined . I own and Use AT 4041's for that work but sometimes go and get a KM184 or two to try things differently. If your finding it too harsh on sources Like Acoustic GTR or other things then back it off a bit . It does seem to be a louder type mic as mentioned previously.I don't think it was engineered for a real close up application .
Old 22nd December 2010
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitreouswindows View Post
I would try a Schoeps before I went with either of the mics you're pondering.
I personally do not like Schoeps. They tend to sound too hi-fi for me.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #17
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an actual KM84 murders either of them, but an M300 is actually a decent mic; which makes it unlike a KM184 in that regard.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #19
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Old 22nd December 2010
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacock View Post
Some of the Schoeps capsules are high fi and some are not. I like the wide cardiod MK21 and it has great reach and sounds natural with a touch of colouration provided by the room and mic.
Interesting. I'll try MK21 if I have a chance. Thank you for letting me know.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
an actual KM84 murders either of them, but an M300 is actually a decent mic; which makes it unlike a KM184 in that regard.
And KM54 murders KM84...
Old 22nd December 2010
  #22
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matucha's Avatar
M582+nickel capsule (M62, M94...) sounds more interesting and smoother than km76. I don't know how far is km84 from km76 but if I wanted just one nice pair of SDs I'd pick M582+M62 and M58 (omni) instead of km(8)76 ... not that I don't like my km76 on many things .
Old 22nd December 2010
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitreouswindows View Post
I would try a Schoeps before I went with either of the mics you're pondering.
+1 Schoeps is a large step above both IMHO.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #24
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Storyville's Avatar
m300 is one of my favorite mics. I much prefer it to the km184 - which I also like. I just get more body and sweetness from the m300 (though sweetness is not always preferable).
Old 22nd December 2010
  #25
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hernanperez2000's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
+1 Schoeps is a large step above both IMHO.
I agree. In my experience schoeps SDCs are the best for acoustic guitars.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #26
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Daedalus77's Avatar
Basically, I'm with Adam.

M300 = Wonderful mic—balanced, detailed tone.

KM184 = Useable, but strident, bordering on brittle.

And just to add to your decision-making: Try a Mercenary KM69. Stunning, in my opinion.
Old 24th December 2010
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanperez2000 View Post
I agree. In my experience schoeps SDCs are the best for acoustic guitars.
mmm.. Have you ever used KM54 on acoustic guitars?
Old 24th December 2010
  #28
Baz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaigen View Post
And KM54 murders KM84...

Stop.Please don't perpetuate the insanity.It's just SO f%*&king ridiculous.......
Old 24th December 2010
  #29
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myles's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz View Post
Stop.Please don't perpetuate the insanity.It's just SO f%*&king ridiculous.......
I don't know... the idea of microphone-icide is pretty interesting. heh
Old 24th December 2010
  #30
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I have had a pair of 184's for many years, but based on the samples I would have bought the 300's. However, the 184's seem happier further away from the source than other similar mics; try backing up a bit when you use them. Best...H
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