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RED 6 vs ISA 215 Channel Strips
Old 20th December 2010
  #1
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bassjam's Avatar
 

RED 6 vs ISA 215

We have a RED 6 and love it, we are concidering an ISA 215 but want to know how it compares to the RED?

Is there any point in having both pieces? Do they sound very different?
Old 20th December 2010
  #2
Gear Nut
 

Hey,

At work we have the ISA 428 and the Red 8. I find the Reds to be more natural not to say the ISA have "bad colour," but there's a time and a place right. I like the controls that the ISA series offers. Not a bad mix of pres to have. The downfall to the Red series is (and I believe it applies to each one) the preamp is in 6dB steps. Which is MASSIVE! So, once you've got that baby set you leave it.
Old 20th December 2010
  #3
I have one also. The Red-6 sounds more open and natural to my ears. but...opinions will vary!
Old 20th December 2010
  #4
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leaper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0bazooka_joe0 View Post
The downfall to the Red series is (and I believe it applies to each one) the preamp is in 6dB steps. Which is MASSIVE! So, once you've got that baby set you leave it.
Actually, this applies only to all the basic Red multichannel microphone pre amps. So that's Red 1 and Red 8. The mono units combining EQ or compressor with pre amp (6 and 7) had no stepped gain knobs. I guess they thought that it wasn't necessary with a mono channel (no need to match gains to anything).
I once saw a Red 5, which was a power amp and people mentioned that Red 4 was an audiofile Hi Fi pre amp.
Million Dollar Question: What was Red 0?
It was mentioned in early Focusrite literature and some were made (apparently).
Anyone remember?
Old 20th December 2010
  #5
Interesting, Leaper. Information on the Red-5 and rumored Red-4 is as scarce as hen's teeth. I'd love to see pictures and read something about them.

Thanks.
Old 20th December 2010
  #6
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bassjam's Avatar
 

I thought the RED 0 was the blanking panel?
Old 20th December 2010
  #8
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danasti's Avatar
 

I'd try and find something way different than an ISA 215.
Old 20th December 2010
  #9
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bassjam's Avatar
 

RED 6 vs ISA 215

Quote:
Originally Posted by danasti
I'd try and find something way different than an ISA 215.
I agree, we are going to get some Helios modules when they are out, im on about Cyril Jones's units, not the Tony Arnold.
Old 21st December 2010
  #10
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leaper's Avatar
 

Sorry.. forgot to bring my post back round to being pertinent.
As far as ISA 215 and Red 6 comparisons go, I've had experience with ISA 110's that were taken from a Forte and Red 6.
They were both quite similar in flavor and i'd assume 215's (which use 110 pre amp sections) would also be pretty damn close to the Red.
They would all share a "family feel".. errrrr... that sounds like they all lived together in a mountain village! Guess you know what I mean.
I'd also suggest you looked elsewhere for a different pre.
Yes.. red 0 was the blanking panel. Like the article mentioned, publicity from Focusrite used to call it a "rack enhancer".. ha!
Never actually saw one, though.
Old 21st December 2010
  #11
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sonicdefault's Avatar
Well, the most obvious difference is with the 215 you'll get two channels of ISA eq which is very good and IMO worth the purchase if you can use more eq.

As for the differences in preamp section. My basic assessment is that the Red line is a little more warm in the lows while the ISAs have a slightly more forward upper midrange.

Of course, this varies with how you set the gain. I've grown to appreciate the dual stage on the ISA units. A couple of years ago, I did A/B tests between the Red and ISA series and found that I could get them to sound so similar, it almost didn't matter to me. However, there's something about the old ISA pres which are unique in the upper-midrange, when driven that I find excellent for vocals. The Red's also have a unique mid presence, it's just slightly more subdued IMO.

Personally, If I had an unlimited budget, I'd snatch up every vintage ISA unit I could find. But I've been known to freak out a little when it comes to buying gear heh


-SD
Old 21st December 2010
  #12
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tapehiss's Avatar
I saw a rack full of original ISA modules in the classifieds going for $2.5K per module.

They look great!!!!!

I'd love to have those....
Old 21st December 2010
  #13
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bassjam's Avatar
 

RED 6 vs ISA 215

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss
I saw a rack full of original ISA modules in the classifieds going for $2.5K per module.

They look great!!!!!

I'd love to have those....
Mmmmm imagine having some forte strips, racked up!
Old 21st December 2010
  #14
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blackcatdigi's Avatar
Original Blue ISAs (1,2,3 series) are Rupert Neve designs.

Red Series are repackaged, (somewhat) redesigned, and "based on Neve" designs.

All other Focusrite is what it is.
Old 16th January 2011
  #15
Gear Head
Red Mic Pre Vrs New and Old ISA ie ISA 215 110 428 828

Does anyone know for sure what the electronics build differences is in the guts of the RED pre amp compared to the new Focusrite ISA series ie 428 Mrk 2 and 828 and or the build quality of the new Red Range vrs a few years ago? Maybe no transformers in the new RED stuff , not sure?

I know my RED 3 Comp disappointingly has no transformers and I have heard the older version did have them ?

Also the ISA 220 NO TRANSFORMERS SO to me it is not any ISA Series really!

Pro Please pass on any real info or comparisons or better yet a tech opinions?

Punters not so much thanks!

I previously owned the Red pre amps and they sounded great and hi fi but I am considering the new 828 which has the Ludhal transfos ,btu I am not sure if the new Red has them and the new ISA 428 Focusrite mentions the 828 having the good tranfos But

It seems Focsrite with the new music store price point digi Era cheaps out on some Blue Range builds to save money and for the marketing creeps(.ie : -No integrity to uphold the old Rupe circuits, what else is new!tutt

I am sure the new 828 is cool ,but I am hedging on getting a 4 Channel Red Range as I know they sound good and I wonder if the new Focusrite 8 channel ISA 828 has been dumed down or not?

Here is the Web sites Description but again no accurate electronic differences stated

No info for sure on what is in the new ISA 428 Mrk 2 I am betting it is not the same as the 828 or the RED and we can almost certainly be sure none are as good as the older original ISA's Tell me I am wrong ,but send photos of the builds and schematics or keep your silence please.

Facts welcome!I would like to hear from someone from Focusrite who is no a useless marketing type with agenda to sell low grade reproduction that have the right colors ,but not the right circuits!

So far from inquiries to Focusrite I get no useful information or contact that seems to have a clue or helps my buying decisions or RED Vrs ISA and it's various forms.

Propaganda below to read.

Key FeaturesBack top Eight ISA series transformer-based pre ampsIn a single robust 2U chassis, offering the classic Focusrite pre at its lowest cost-per-channel to date.

New Optional Eight Channel 192kHz ADC
Embodies cutting-edge conversion technology, incorporating Focusrite analogue circuitry to deliver the best A/D performance on the market, bar none

Convenient 25 pin D-Type connectors
The ISA828 integrates quickly and seamlessly with ProTools HD, as well as other popular hard disk recorders and mixing desks.

Switchable Impedance
Selectable per channel; choose one of four carefully selected input impedances, including the original ISA110 setting, to suit any microphone.

Direct Instrument inputs
Each instrument input features high and low impedance options to provide a comprehensive and accessible DI solution.

Inserting available on every channel
Allows external devices to be inserted between the pre amp and the ADC, using the 25-pin D-type cable.

High pass filter, Phase reverse and Phantom power
Each has a dedicated switch, independent on each channel.

Six LED input meter

Complete with precise meter trim - Designed to utilise the same reference points as Digidesign’s HD™




SpecificationsBack top

Mic Input Response• Gain range: 0dB to 60dB in 10dB steps
• Input Impedance, variable: 600?, 1k4?, 2k4?, 6k8?
• EIN (equivalent input noise): -126dB measured at 60dB of gain with 150 Ohm terminating impedance and 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Noise at main output with gain at unity (0dB): -97dBu measured with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Signal to noise ratio relative to max headroom (9dBu): 106dB
• THD at medium gain (30dB): 0.0008% measured with a 1kHz -20dBu input signal and with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Frequency response at minimum gain (0dB): -0.5dB down at 10Hz and –3dB down at 110kHz
• Frequency response at maximum gain (60dB): –3dB down at 16Hz and –3dB down 85kHz
• CMRR: 91.8dB (Channel 1, 1kHz, maxiumum gain)
• Crosstalk Channel to Channel: with [email protected] input to chA, chB output =102dBrA. With [email protected] input to chA, chB output = 84dBrA

Line Input Response
• Gain range: -20dB to +10dB in 10dB steps
• Input Impedance: 10k? from 10Hz to 200kHz
• Noise at main output with gain at unity (0dB): -96dBu measured with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Signal to noise ratio relative to max headroom (24dBu): 120dB
• Signal to noise ratio relative to 0dBFS(+22dBu): 118dB
• THD at unity gain (0dB): 0.001% measured with a 0dBu input signal and with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Frequency Response at unity gain (0dB): 0.3dB down at 10Hz and –3dB down at 122kHz

Instrument Input Response
• Gain range: 10dB to 40dB continuously variable
• Input Impedance: 1M? or 300k?
• Noise at minimum gain (+10dB): -90dBu measured with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Noise at maximum gain (+40dB): -62dBu measured with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• THD at minimum gain (+10dB): 0.002% measured with a 10dBu input signal and with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Frequency Response at 10dB gain with -10dB input: 10Hz-200kHz +/- 0.6dB
• Frequency Response at 40dB gain with -40dB input: -2.5dB down at 10Hz and 0dB at 200kHz

High Pass Filter
• Roll off: 18dB per octave 3 pole filter
• Fixed Frequency 75Hz measured at the 3dB down point

Weight
• 8.84kg
• 19.5Ibs

Dimensions
• 484mm (W) x 85mm (H) x 305mm (D) (350mm depth with heat sink)
• 19" (W) x 3.5" (H) x 12" (D) (13.8" depth with heat sink)



OverviewBack top



The ISA828 eight channel microphone pre-amplifier provides eight original ISA transformer-based pre amps in a single robust 2U chassis, offering the Focusrite signature sound at its lowest cost per channel to date.


The eight ISA-series transformer-based microphone pre amps feature the same classic microphone pre-amplifier design as the original ISA110 module from Focusrite's critically acclaimed Forte console (including the original Lundahl L1538 transformer and bespoke zobel network).




The pre-amps are complemented by eight line inputs, eight line outputs and an optional eight channel 192kHz ADC boasting the widest dynamic range of any converter to date. Thanks to its convenient 25 pin D-Type connectors, the ISA828 also integrates quickly and seamlessly with ProTools HD, as well as other popular hard disc recorders and mixing desks.


The microphone input stage additionally includes a variable impedance circuit, allowing the user to switch between four carefully selected input impedance settings. The original ISA110 setting is supplemented by three further impedance settings to either perfectly match the pre-amp with any microphone, thus maximizing level, or to use different settings creatively to shape the sound of the microphone being used.



The four front panel instrument inputs also feature high and low impedance options to provide a comprehensive and accessible DI solution. Insert switches are also featured on every channel, should the need arise to place extra processing between the pre amp and converter. Vintage design 75 Hz / 18dB per octave high pass filters are also provided on every channel, ensuring unwanted low frequencies are effectively eliminated.



The ISA828’s new optional eight-channel 192kHz ADC is the first audio ADC to utilise Texas Instruments Burr-Brown Pro Audio Amplifiers and Flagship Analog to Digital Converter PCM4220 chips. This cutting-edge technology is encompassed within Focusrite’s own custom analogue circuitry to provide eight channels of unparalleled A/D conversion, delivering a dynamic range of 122dB and jitter at less than 250 picoseconds.

Finally, every channel features a six LED input meter, complete with global precise meter trim. Metering has been designed to utilise the same reference points as Digidesign’s Pro Tools HD™ system and provides clear and accurate input metering, independent of the DAW.









The ISA PreBack top


The ISA microphone pre-amplifier was first introduced back in 1985. This transformer-based pre-amplifier formed the first half of the ISA110 mic-pre and EQ module on Focusrite's critically acclaimed Forte console. This console, and the later Studio console were hailed by many as the finest sounding consoles ever built.


The ISA microphone pre-amplifier went on to form the cornerstone of all ISA and RED Focusrite products. The topology has never changed, except for the addition of a variable impedance circuit, allowing ISA users to either perfectly match the pre-amp with any microphone, thus maximizing level, or to use different settings creatively to shape the sound of the microphone being used. The original ISA110 setting was supplemented by three further impedance settings.


The Focusrite pre amp is renowned for its transparency, but there's also that subtle warmth that transformer core saturation contributes. This seeming contradiction of warmth plus beautifully open, unrestricted high frequencies, is a classic hallmark of the mid 80's Focusrite designs.


With processors whose bandwidth is strictly limited to the audible (20Hz to 20kHz) bandwidth alone, significant roll-off can still occur, affecting the higher audible frequencies of the signal. Therefore, in order to capture every subtle nuance, exactly as it occurs whilst avoiding any roll-off, the pre-amp must operate over a far greater bandwidth. The extremely broad frequency response of Focusrite pre-amps - close to 200kHz at the top end - guarantees accurate phase response across the much narrower range of human hearing, the roll-off point being moved entirely outside of the audible hearing range.




)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcatdigi View Post
Original Blue ISAs (1,2,3 series) are Rupert Neve designs.

Red Series are repackaged, (somewhat) redesigned, and "based on Neve" designs.

All other Focusrite is what it is.
Old 16th January 2011
  #16
Gear Head
Focusrite RED PRE AMPS

I got some more info the RED Pre have Transfos on the input and out puts cool and there is a difference for sure, not the same as the ISA. I think from what I can tell and remember the RED pre has more headroom and is more like a Millenia HV 3 with personality. More Hi Fi then the ISA which has more upper mid and a little more rock and roll mid push.I am still after more info on the various ISA Blue Range ISA 110 215, and newer stuff 428 ,428 Mrk 2, 828

Quote:
Originally Posted by LURCH View Post
Does anyone know for sure what the electronics build differences is in the guts of the RED pre amp compared to the new Focusrite ISA series ie 428 Mrk 2 and 828 and or the build quality of the new Red Range vrs a few years ago? Maybe no transformers in the new RED stuff , not sure?

I know my RED 3 Comp disappointingly has no transformers and I have heard the older version did have them ?

Also the ISA 220 NO TRANSFORMERS SO to me it is not any ISA Series really!

Pro Please pass on any real info or comparisons or better yet a tech opinions?

Punters not so much thanks!

I previously owned the Red pre amps and they sounded great and hi fi but I am considering the new 828 which has the Ludhal transfos ,btu I am not sure if the new Red has them and the new ISA 428 Focusrite mentions the 828 having the good tranfos But

It seems Focsrite with the new music store price point digi Era cheaps out on some Blue Range builds to save money and for the marketing creeps(.ie : -No integrity to uphold the old Rupe circuits, what else is new!tutt

I am sure the new 828 is cool ,but I am hedging on getting a 4 Channel Red Range as I know they sound good and I wonder if the new Focusrite 8 channel ISA 828 has been dumed down or not?

Here is the Web sites Description but again no accurate electronic differences stated

No info for sure on what is in the new ISA 428 Mrk 2 I am betting it is not the same as the 828 or the RED and we can almost certainly be sure none are as good as the older original ISA's Tell me I am wrong ,but send photos of the builds and schematics or keep your silence please.

Facts welcome!I would like to hear from someone from Focusrite who is no a useless marketing type with agenda to sell low grade reproduction that have the right colors ,but not the right circuits!

So far from inquiries to Focusrite I get no useful information or contact that seems to have a clue or helps my buying decisions or RED Vrs ISA and it's various forms.

Propaganda below to read.

Key FeaturesBack top Eight ISA series transformer-based pre ampsIn a single robust 2U chassis, offering the classic Focusrite pre at its lowest cost-per-channel to date.

New Optional Eight Channel 192kHz ADC
Embodies cutting-edge conversion technology, incorporating Focusrite analogue circuitry to deliver the best A/D performance on the market, bar none

Convenient 25 pin D-Type connectors
The ISA828 integrates quickly and seamlessly with ProTools HD, as well as other popular hard disk recorders and mixing desks.

Switchable Impedance
Selectable per channel; choose one of four carefully selected input impedances, including the original ISA110 setting, to suit any microphone.

Direct Instrument inputs
Each instrument input features high and low impedance options to provide a comprehensive and accessible DI solution.

Inserting available on every channel
Allows external devices to be inserted between the pre amp and the ADC, using the 25-pin D-type cable.

High pass filter, Phase reverse and Phantom power
Each has a dedicated switch, independent on each channel.

Six LED input meter

Complete with precise meter trim - Designed to utilise the same reference points as Digidesign’s HD™




SpecificationsBack top

Mic Input Response• Gain range: 0dB to 60dB in 10dB steps
• Input Impedance, variable: 600?, 1k4?, 2k4?, 6k8?
• EIN (equivalent input noise): -126dB measured at 60dB of gain with 150 Ohm terminating impedance and 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Noise at main output with gain at unity (0dB): -97dBu measured with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Signal to noise ratio relative to max headroom (9dBu): 106dB
• THD at medium gain (30dB): 0.0008% measured with a 1kHz -20dBu input signal and with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Frequency response at minimum gain (0dB): -0.5dB down at 10Hz and –3dB down at 110kHz
• Frequency response at maximum gain (60dB): –3dB down at 16Hz and –3dB down 85kHz
• CMRR: 91.8dB (Channel 1, 1kHz, maxiumum gain)
• Crosstalk Channel to Channel: with [email protected] input to chA, chB output =102dBrA. With [email protected] input to chA, chB output = 84dBrA

Line Input Response
• Gain range: -20dB to +10dB in 10dB steps
• Input Impedance: 10k? from 10Hz to 200kHz
• Noise at main output with gain at unity (0dB): -96dBu measured with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Signal to noise ratio relative to max headroom (24dBu): 120dB
• Signal to noise ratio relative to 0dBFS(+22dBu): 118dB
• THD at unity gain (0dB): 0.001% measured with a 0dBu input signal and with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Frequency Response at unity gain (0dB): 0.3dB down at 10Hz and –3dB down at 122kHz

Instrument Input Response
• Gain range: 10dB to 40dB continuously variable
• Input Impedance: 1M? or 300k?
• Noise at minimum gain (+10dB): -90dBu measured with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Noise at maximum gain (+40dB): -62dBu measured with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• THD at minimum gain (+10dB): 0.002% measured with a 10dBu input signal and with a 22Hz/22kHz bandpass filter
• Frequency Response at 10dB gain with -10dB input: 10Hz-200kHz +/- 0.6dB
• Frequency Response at 40dB gain with -40dB input: -2.5dB down at 10Hz and 0dB at 200kHz

High Pass Filter
• Roll off: 18dB per octave 3 pole filter
• Fixed Frequency 75Hz measured at the 3dB down point

Weight
• 8.84kg
• 19.5Ibs

Dimensions
• 484mm (W) x 85mm (H) x 305mm (D) (350mm depth with heat sink)
• 19" (W) x 3.5" (H) x 12" (D) (13.8" depth with heat sink)



OverviewBack top



The ISA828 eight channel microphone pre-amplifier provides eight original ISA transformer-based pre amps in a single robust 2U chassis, offering the Focusrite signature sound at its lowest cost per channel to date.


The eight ISA-series transformer-based microphone pre amps feature the same classic microphone pre-amplifier design as the original ISA110 module from Focusrite's critically acclaimed Forte console (including the original Lundahl L1538 transformer and bespoke zobel network).




The pre-amps are complemented by eight line inputs, eight line outputs and an optional eight channel 192kHz ADC boasting the widest dynamic range of any converter to date. Thanks to its convenient 25 pin D-Type connectors, the ISA828 also integrates quickly and seamlessly with ProTools HD, as well as other popular hard disc recorders and mixing desks.


The microphone input stage additionally includes a variable impedance circuit, allowing the user to switch between four carefully selected input impedance settings. The original ISA110 setting is supplemented by three further impedance settings to either perfectly match the pre-amp with any microphone, thus maximizing level, or to use different settings creatively to shape the sound of the microphone being used.



The four front panel instrument inputs also feature high and low impedance options to provide a comprehensive and accessible DI solution. Insert switches are also featured on every channel, should the need arise to place extra processing between the pre amp and converter. Vintage design 75 Hz / 18dB per octave high pass filters are also provided on every channel, ensuring unwanted low frequencies are effectively eliminated.



The ISA828’s new optional eight-channel 192kHz ADC is the first audio ADC to utilise Texas Instruments Burr-Brown Pro Audio Amplifiers and Flagship Analog to Digital Converter PCM4220 chips. This cutting-edge technology is encompassed within Focusrite’s own custom analogue circuitry to provide eight channels of unparalleled A/D conversion, delivering a dynamic range of 122dB and jitter at less than 250 picoseconds.

Finally, every channel features a six LED input meter, complete with global precise meter trim. Metering has been designed to utilise the same reference points as Digidesign’s Pro Tools HD™ system and provides clear and accurate input metering, independent of the DAW.









The ISA PreBack top


The ISA microphone pre-amplifier was first introduced back in 1985. This transformer-based pre-amplifier formed the first half of the ISA110 mic-pre and EQ module on Focusrite's critically acclaimed Forte console. This console, and the later Studio console were hailed by many as the finest sounding consoles ever built.


The ISA microphone pre-amplifier went on to form the cornerstone of all ISA and RED Focusrite products. The topology has never changed, except for the addition of a variable impedance circuit, allowing ISA users to either perfectly match the pre-amp with any microphone, thus maximizing level, or to use different settings creatively to shape the sound of the microphone being used. The original ISA110 setting was supplemented by three further impedance settings.


The Focusrite pre amp is renowned for its transparency, but there's also that subtle warmth that transformer core saturation contributes. This seeming contradiction of warmth plus beautifully open, unrestricted high frequencies, is a classic hallmark of the mid 80's Focusrite designs.


With processors whose bandwidth is strictly limited to the audible (20Hz to 20kHz) bandwidth alone, significant roll-off can still occur, affecting the higher audible frequencies of the signal. Therefore, in order to capture every subtle nuance, exactly as it occurs whilst avoiding any roll-off, the pre-amp must operate over a far greater bandwidth. The extremely broad frequency response of Focusrite pre-amps - close to 200kHz at the top end - guarantees accurate phase response across the much narrower range of human hearing, the roll-off point being moved entirely outside of the audible hearing range.




)
Old 16th January 2011
  #17
The original ISAs are great. The 215 is a favorite, especially the EQ, but I like the pres too. I can't imagine ever selling my 215. The Reds are straightforward, high-quality, and they're predictable and versatile if not terribly exciting. The newer ISA 828 is a great value and seems part way between the reds and the original ISAs. They have one transformer per path instead of 2 so they aren't exactly the same as the original, but they have just enough of an iron sound to be a little helpful to things like drums while remaining mostly very clean. They're certainly a step up from the octopre.
Old 16th January 2011
  #18
Very good words, Jay. I have been getting great success on toms with my 428 mark 1, which is essentially the same. that's all I use it for, though.
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