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How high end is a y-split cable? Single-Channel Preamps
Old 19th October 2016
  #31
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If you can't hear the problem, it's not a problem. Of course check. I noticed you can experiment with splitting and with merging, and yes - in some applications the current might start to flow in the wrong direction due to impedances and the like. So far I didn't destroy anything
Old 19th October 2016
  #32
Never never use a y-split cable, they are low end solutions. Use mult cables instead, for that high end sound.
Old 20th October 2016
  #34
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blackcom's Avatar
 

Id like to hear a mix with 100+ summed tracks containing splitted signals vs. not split....
Old 21st October 2016
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkade View Post
I'll advise against doing that (hardware, dont know bout mics). I cant find any info about the output impedance of the TG2, though the input impedance of the ditressor is 20k, 600 for the 1176 and (probably) 600 for the LA2A. You will get undefined frecuency response behaviour in such a coupled system as every input impedance of the units will affect the output of the TG2 differently, even if it has enough power to drive all the loads in parallel. It will sound different than using a single unit at once. Better use some switchable device to make an A/B setup.
A couple different opinions here as to whether this is a good idea or not.

What if I use the SCA N72 as my preamp feeding these compressors. The N72 has a jumper that connects a 604-ohm load resistor across the output and it's recommended that unless you’re connecting the N72 to a piece of older gear with 600 ohm input impedance, that this jumper is installed.

So for compressors like the 1176 and LA2A that have a 600 ohm input impedance, would it make sense to remove this jumper on the preamp and use a one-in/two-out y-cable to feed just these compressors that have the same input impedance?
Old 21st October 2016
  #36
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arkade's Avatar
The resistor is designed to make the N72 (and other old gear like a 1176 that expect a 600Ohm load) more stable (and deliver the designed frequency response) when coupling to modern impedance loads, found in newer hardware like the distressor (20k).

Adding two low impedance loads (with or without distressor wont change it much really) is gonna make things bad. Besides the fact that impedance is frequency dependent, you'll half the 600 loads to 300 in this parallel set up. Not only is it twice the load (or even more!) than what the preamp expects, its gonna show erratic frequency response behaviour which will sound a lot different than just using a single comp, which, in my opinion, nullifies the whole idea of comparing them. I doubt that the preamp can drive the load though and theres a chance youll fry the output section.
Old 22nd October 2016
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkade View Post
The resistor is designed to make the N72 (and other old gear like a 1176 that expect a 600Ohm load) more stable (and deliver the designed frequency response) when coupling to modern impedance loads, found in newer hardware like the distressor (20k).

Adding two low impedance loads (with or without distressor wont change it much really) is gonna make things bad. Besides the fact that impedance is frequency dependent, you'll half the 600 loads to 300 in this parallel set up. Not only is it twice the load (or even more!) than what the preamp expects, its gonna show erratic frequency response behaviour which will sound a lot different than just using a single comp, which, in my opinion, nullifies the whole idea of comparing them. I doubt that the preamp can drive the load though and theres a chance youll fry the output section.
Would this passive splitter be a better solution? I'm also looking for a way to sum multiple mic pre outputs to a single track specifically when tracking multiple mics on a guitar cab....this seems to fit the bill.

ART Pro Audio
Old 22nd October 2016
  #38
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I'd say for summing specifically you'd always need a summing mixer, be it passive or active.
Old 24th October 2016
  #39
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arkade's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB872 View Post
Would this passive splitter be a better solution? I'm also looking for a way to sum multiple mic pre outputs to a single track specifically when tracking multiple mics on a guitar cab....this seems to fit the bill.

ART Pro Audio
Yeah, looks like this would do.
Old 24th October 2016
  #40
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Quote:
Would this passive splitter be a better solution?
Try both a passive splitter and a y-split cable and report back which ones is better and why
Old 24th October 2016
  #41
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y-splits always work if your output is low impedance. you should not attempt it on say a 600ohms line. it never works on the input
Old 24th October 2016
  #42
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Hi
There are a number of considerations to be taken into account when 'splitting'.
For a 'line level' signal (output of a preamp for example) the highest 'fidelity' signal will generally be using a simple Y split cable as most 'modern' professional outputs will handle a 600 Ohm load (minimum) and most inputs are 10K Ohms or more. This used to be referred to as a 'bridging' input and you could parallel up to 15 of them before significant degradation.
Older gear, designed for 600 Ohm output and 600 Ohm 'termination' was good in a way because you knew what to expect but it was only 1 'source' to 1 'destination' and a complete PITA to parallel inputs. This was actually done by using 'distribution amplifiers' which had multiple 600 Ohm driving outputs. Outputs intended to drive 600 Ohms (usually from a transformer) work 'correctly' with 600 Ohms and using them into 10K often results in increased voltage headroom (good) and frequency response anomalies (bad).
You are correct in the post above that putting 2 '600 Ohm' inputs onto 1 output will result in poor performance (distorting prematurely etc), but having a 600 Ohm and adding another 10K or greater load will not cause distress.
Using a transformer 1:1:1 ratio as a 'splitter' does nothing to sort out loading issues but can help if your 'destinations' are physically widely separated and 'hum loop' problems might exist.
The situation with microphones is somewhat different as there is usually only a little signal 'power' available from the mic. If you are micing a loud source then extra loading of 2 preamp inputs may not be an issue but hum loops might be (so a transformer split may be beneficial) but at the end of the day you need to decide if any 'degradation' you get is acceptable. Normally for mics, they should go to 1 preamp input then if needed 'split' the preamp output.
Passive splitters using transformers or resistors often 'drop' the level so you would need to use more gain from the preamps. This tradeoff is due to the limited signal power from a mic being 'shared' between 2 preamp inputs (conservation of energy rules apply, 1 cup of water divided by 2 people means half a cup each).
Matt S
Old 24th October 2016
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Syson View Post
Hi
There are a number of considerations to be taken into account when 'splitting'.
For a 'line level' signal (output of a preamp for example) the highest 'fidelity' signal will generally be using a simple Y split cable as most 'modern' professional outputs will handle a 600 Ohm load (minimum) and most inputs are 10K Ohms or more. This used to be referred to as a 'bridging' input and you could parallel up to 15 of them before significant degradation.
Older gear, designed for 600 Ohm output and 600 Ohm 'termination' was good in a way because you knew what to expect but it was only 1 'source' to 1 'destination' and a complete PITA to parallel inputs. This was actually done by using 'distribution amplifiers' which had multiple 600 Ohm driving outputs. Outputs intended to drive 600 Ohms (usually from a transformer) work 'correctly' with 600 Ohms and using them into 10K often results in increased voltage headroom (good) and frequency response anomalies (bad).
You are correct in the post above that putting 2 '600 Ohm' inputs onto 1 output will result in poor performance (distorting prematurely etc), but having a 600 Ohm and adding another 10K or greater load will not cause distress.
Using a transformer 1:1:1 ratio as a 'splitter' does nothing to sort out loading issues but can help if your 'destinations' are physically widely separated and 'hum loop' problems might exist.
The situation with microphones is somewhat different as there is usually only a little signal 'power' available from the mic. If you are micing a loud source then extra loading of 2 preamp inputs may not be an issue but hum loops might be (so a transformer split may be beneficial) but at the end of the day you need to decide if any 'degradation' you get is acceptable. Normally for mics, they should go to 1 preamp input then if needed 'split' the preamp output.
Passive splitters using transformers or resistors often 'drop' the level so you would need to use more gain from the preamps. This tradeoff is due to the limited signal power from a mic being 'shared' between 2 preamp inputs (conservation of energy rules apply, 1 cup of water divided by 2 people means half a cup each).
Matt S
and i stand corrected..... listen to this guy - he knows what he is talking about!
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