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Bricasti users I/O s Digital or Analog which do you use ? Modular Synthesizers
Old 6th January 2011
  #31
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Well the main thing is that I find the transients coloured. And because of that I find the reverb feels like it isn't quite the product of that source if you know what I mean. It reduces the bricasti party trick of the reverb being part of the sound. But of course this is far more obvious when you have a lot of a ER heavy room reverb (for example) than a little long plate or whatever. I'd say it's obvious on drums mainly.

Jack
Old 6th January 2011
  #32
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Bending_Bus's Avatar
 

Just got one. Sounds 70% as real as a real room, and nobody has ever got that close, so that's pretty cool. Looks snappy too.

Who do I talk to to get the V2 update?
Old 6th January 2011
  #33
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Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Ruston View Post
Well the main thing is that I find the transients coloured. And because of that I find the reverb feels like it isn't quite the product of that source if you know what I mean. It reduces the bricasti party trick of the reverb being part of the sound. But of course this is far more obvious when you have a lot of a ER heavy room reverb (for example) than a little long plate or whatever. I'd say it's obvious on drums mainly.

Jack
Ok noted! Thanks for the advice/knowledge. I will work to understand and improve this issue.

When I have had transient coloration in rooms I reduce the VLF. Worth a shot?



-Casey
Old 6th January 2011
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bending_Bus View Post
Who do I talk to to get the V2 update?
Go here and register: Bricasti Design

And then just send your shipping address to my email below.



-Casey
Old 7th January 2011
  #35
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Thanks man, great design by the way...intuitive and fun to use.
Old 7th January 2011
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Ok noted! Thanks for the advice/knowledge. I will work to understand and improve this issue.

When I have had transient coloration in rooms I reduce the VLF. Worth a shot?



-Casey
Thanks Casey, I'll try that.

J
Old 7th January 2011
  #37
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Casey's Avatar
 

Additional Trouble Shooting Re: Early Coloration

Worth mentioning in this discussion is that the bug I wrote in the first release of V2 will cause the earlies to add undo coloration.

Anyone that has not upgraded to the V2.1 code should contact me via email to receive the upgrade. There has only been the one bug fix, so this is not new information if you have heard this before.

All systems with a serial number of 1711 or greater have the latest code.

One other step to take to prevent early coloration is to make sure that the dry signal running through the M7 is turned completly off when using (as most do) the system in a typical send / return parallel path.

This can be verified by turning the M7 off, then turning it back on and then going to the system page and scrolling up to the system parameter called "Dry Gain". This parameter should be set to "Off". When setting this parameter, the "Enter" button must be pressed for the adjustment to take affect.



-Casey
Old 11th February 2011
  #38
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Alright Wow !! and a question for Casey

I got mine this week and am thrilled so far I have only tried a few pre sets.

I have a question which I believe i know the answer to and that is in the V2 Addendum, I talks about the Non Linears presets and refers to numbers 1 and 2 and #4 so these would be on the M7 display = pre sets A and B and D correct ? thanks, Kev
Old 12th February 2011
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
numbers 1 and 2 and #4 would be pre sets A and B and D correct ?
Correct.



-Casey
Old 12th February 2011
  #40
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So far I am running the M7 digital.. The V2 plate "Vocal Shimmer" is quite nice I tried it on a few old recordings. thumbsup
Old 21st February 2011
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Ruston View Post
Hi Casey

I checked my latency according to the formula which I posted in this thread and found it was correct. But then checking the dry path vs original signal it was wrong. So this tells me a few things...1. That I've probably got that formula wrong...In fact I have because I've calulated it based on samples at 44.1k but of course it should only ever be in ms because with changes in sample rate come changes in ms. and 2. That there might well be some quirks in the PT software in terms of how it adjusts stuff. Its always worth just checking it to be sure.

But it does bother me if it isn't right. Am I weird?

J
Jack hey I think your right about some quirk in the PT ADC

I have been checking a couple sessions and trying to calculate from samples of delay (indicated from in the ADC window) into ms.
I have the M7 connected AES. and as an insert in the I/O .

I have noticed something strange, in that in the two sessions are different sample rates, i.e. one is 44.1 -24 bit and the other is 88.2 -24 bit. Yet both show 533 samples delay in the ADC windo on the M7s aux track. So then as per the formula you posted 533 divided by 88.2 comes up -6.04 ms..... where 533 div. by 44.1= 12.08 ms.
any thoughts ?? P.S. my M7 is set to Dry-off and Wet - Full
One more question I was going to follow your suggestion about entering the ms in the Hardware insert delay tab ( of course i am now not sure what figure to enter ) but if that gets solved..
The Hardware insert dalay tab just shows my OMNI icon then below in the same window has Delay [ 1..2..3...4...5..6...7...8.]

then below that the ( msecs.) [ 0.00 ]. [ 0.00 ] etc.

I assume the numbers 1 thru 8 to right of Delay correspond to the insert channels for example my AES is 5-6 ? the entry would then be in 5 and 6 ?
And last if the ADC is doing already doing 533 of compensation , is it still necessary to enter a number in the HW insert Delay area ?

Thanks. Kev
Old 21st February 2011
  #42
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Hey Kev

So there are latencies being introduced at various stages here, only some of which pro tools is aware of. PT knows what its own interfaces will introduce. Now I'm not sure if an AES IO even causes any latency. There's no conversion. But there might be a few samples of delay. Analogue is 105 or something like that. The 533 you're seeing is nothing to do with the channel you're looking at. Thats ADC compensating everything in the whole session. Ignore it. Pro tools doesn't know what latency the bricasti is introducing...either through its own digital processing, or that processing in combination with the AD DA stages if those are being used. So we need to tell it using the HW insert tab in the IO window. You need to enter the delay in the fields corresponding to the insert pair you're using.

How we calculate this will depend on what sample rate is being used at each end because as sample rate changes, so the real time delay in ms changes. If there are 96000 samples in a second at 96k, at 48k 96000 samples will take 2 seconds in real time because the sample rate is half. See?

So rather than get confusing formulas worked out like I did before I suggest you simply turn your bricasti to 100% dry 0% wet, print a click through and measure the latency. You can then tell pro tools to compensate that amount and you'll know its right because if you leave it 100% dry and send things, you'll hear the source get louder rather than start phasing.

Thats what I now do because I realised that I'm either not clever enough or not meticulous enough to rely on formulas.

J
Old 21st February 2011
  #43
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Arent there issues around AES and clock jitter? I used it for a while, an the sound suffers, so went back to analog.
Old 21st February 2011
  #44
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First off, I love the M7 sound. It is a great sounding box! I regularly use both a friends unit and also the one where I primarily record the SPCO. One big oversight in my opinion is more I/O options. One of the things I really appreciate in my old M3000 is these I/O options. Not only does it have the usual analog and AES I/O but also I/O of SPDIF in coax and optical format as well as ADAT optical in selectable pairs and word clock I/O on RCA. Clock can also be selected from any digital source. Also, the unit puts out signal at all outputs with any source. I have used all of these I/O options in many combinations over the years. It seems that this would have been an easy implementation on the back panel of M7 as it is the same size of a M3000. I have even successfully used the M3000 as a stand alone A/D converter, using the mix control for a bit of verb. I still use my M3000 to feed CD burners for musicians CD copies on SPCO chamber stuff. Preamp to A/D, AES feeds 722 clean for later post production, SPDIF out feeds M3000 with a bit of verb which feeds CD burners. I get a lot of positive feedback from the musicians from the M3000 version and I suspect there would be even more positive feedback if it was easy to implement this with an M7 instead. Two format converter boxes for I/O to make this work is a bit kludgie. I believe the M3000 type I/O options should be standard these days.
Cameron
Old 22nd February 2011
  #45
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[QUOTE=Jack Ruston;6360766]Hey Kev

Quote:
The 533 you're seeing is nothing to do with the channel you're looking at. Thats ADC compensating everything in the whole session.
Quote:
Ignore it. Pro tools doesn't know what latency the bricasti is introducing..
OK here Perhaps I should have been more clear. Also please understand that I am not trying to argue but merely trying to clarify some confusion on my part. Because some of what you are saying is not quite matching what I am seeing, or at least my understanding of what I am seeing in the session info box and mix window. I suspect it's the lack of knowledge and specific detail on my part. So here are some screen shots to help explain what I am seeing.

I have the Delay Compensation displayed at the bottom of the mix window and it is showing for example in screen shot #1 ( with no M7 inserted )- on the tracks with the Digi Expander Gate 88 samples and they are in the amber color. The rest of tracks are in the green color and showing either 88 sample of compensation, or 0 for the aux tracks...
The session set up box is showing 95 samples of (system delay) so I am assuming that means 7 samples of internal, inherent delay or (95 minus 88 = 7)
#1


Now in screen shot #2 ( with the M7 inserted - 4th track from the right)
the display shows the track with the M7 has 533 (in amber) the rest of the tracks are green some tracks show 88, some show 533 and some show 621 ( 533 + 88 = 621 ) and the session set up box shows System delay at 628 or (621+7 = 628)
#2

So I am missing something because I would have thought this would mean that the system inherent delay ( before plugins etc.) is 7samples and that that PT is showing the M7 as 533 sample delay ?



.
Quote:
So we need to tell it using the HW insert tab in the IO window. You need to enter the delay in the fields corresponding to the insert pair you're using.


So rather than get confusing formulas worked out like I did before I suggest you simply turn your bricasti to 100% dry 0% wet, print a click through and measure the latency. You can then tell pro tools to compensate that amount and you'll know its right because if you leave it 100% dry and send things, you'll hear the source get louder rather than start phasing.
Ah this I get and will try that also , Thanks again a bunch Kev
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