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ROYER-GEFFELL combo on Dist. guitars WOW!!!! Condenser Microphones
Old 13th January 2006
  #1
ROYER-GEFFELL combo on Dist. guitars WOW!!!!

Hi, 2 months a go I saw this mic setting on the Royer labs web site ( Jerry Finn recording some Blink182 stuff) and since Im producing a Rock band with lots of MESA-SOLDANO-PLEXI-ORANGE-4x12, I finally tried this Royer-Geffel combination and... holly god!!!! It sounds amazing!! I usually records my amps just with SM57 but this set up sounds awsome, I A/B'd those mics against the 57 and the royer-geffel combo killed that poor 57.



Im in love with Royer mics!! ( and Gefell and Pearlman and old Newmanns and ...and...I know, Im a gearslut!!!)

Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com
Old 13th January 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Thanks for sharing Armando. Which pre did you use btw?

Andreas
Old 13th January 2006
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
murp's Avatar
 

Cool pic - is it yours, or from the Royer site?

Exactly which Gefell did you use? It looks to me like either the UMT70S or the MT71S - what's the difference between the two, other than the patterns?

Also, whereabouts on the cone did you put the mics?

And, yeah, what preamp(s)... heh
Old 13th January 2006
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G
Thanks for sharing Armando. Which pre did you use btw?

Andreas
Ive' used my BA1272, on distorted guitars I don't use any compression, so my chain was: Mics-> BA1272-> Portico 5042-> Hedd-> Digital Performer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murp
Cool pic - is it yours, or from the Royer site?

Exactly which Gefell did you use? It looks to me like either the UMT70S or the MT71S - what's the difference between the two, other than the patterns?

Also, whereabouts on the cone did you put the mics?

And, yeah, what preamp(s)... heh
The Pict is from Royer site, I saw there and got inspired!!
My Gefell is UMT70S, I don't know the difference between those gefells but mine works beautifull on guitar cabs.

Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com
Old 13th January 2006
  #5
Gear Nut
 
The Swami's Avatar
 

The only difference is the patterns on the gefells. I have the mt71s and it works great
Old 14th January 2006
  #6
Lives for gear
 
allaccess's Avatar
I hipped Jerry to the UMT-70 at the beginning of the blink record and he bought a pair... used them all over the place on that record and the Alkaline Trio's Crimson record, where the mic was by itself on the guitar cabinets. We used Manley and Chandler TG-2 mic pre's, summed (sometimes with other amps using another pair of the same mics) through a BCM-10 and a Manley Pultec to tape. The MG is one of my favorite mics, as is the royer...

Ryan Hewitt
Old 14th January 2006
  #7
Lives for gear
 
jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcosmos
Hi, 2 months a go I saw this mic setting on the Royer labs web site ( Jerry Finn recording some Blink182 stuff) and since Im producing a Rock band with lots of MESA-SOLDANO-PLEXI-ORANGE-4x12, I finally tried this Royer-Geffel combination and... holly god!!!! It sounds amazing!! I usually records my amps just with SM57 but this set up sounds awsome, I A/B'd those mics against the 57 and the royer-geffel combo killed that poor 57.



Im in love with Royer mics!! ( and Gefell and Pearlman and old Newmanns and ...and...I know, Im a gearslut!!!)

Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com

Armando,

No sabia que estabas por aca en gearslutz. Te felicito por todo el buen trabajo que has venido haciendo durante tu carrera.

Saludos,
Pupo
P.D.
No me conoces pero sigo tu trabajo...
Old 14th January 2006
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by allaccess
I hipped Jerry to the UMT-70 at the beginning of the blink record and he bought a pair... used them all over the place on that record and the Alkaline Trio's Crimson record, where the mic was by itself on the guitar cabinets. We used Manley and Chandler TG-2 mic pre's, summed (sometimes with other amps using another pair of the same mics) through a BCM-10 and a Manley Pultec to tape. The MG is one of my favorite mics, as is the royer...

Ryan Hewitt
Hi Ryan, Nice to meet you Im getting great results with your methods!!!!!!, Im producing a band called Allison for Sony-Bmg their style is a combination Blink-Green day-Yellow card and that mic combo is a god's send to me!

Thank you and VIVA GEFELL y ROYER!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpupo74
Armando,

No sabia que estabas por aca en gearslutz. Te felicito por todo el buen trabajo que has venido haciendo durante tu carrera.

Saludos,
Pupo
P.D.
No me conoces pero sigo tu trabajo...
Hola Pupo mucho gusto, de donde eres?

Saludos.

Best.
Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com
Old 14th January 2006
  #9
Lives for gear
 
jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcosmos

Hola Pupo mucho gusto, de donde eres?

Saludos.

Best.
Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com

Hola Armando,

De Barranquilla, Colombia. Ahora estoy viviendo en Montreal y estare aca por una par de anyos. Luego regreso a seguir con lo que deje, mi productora con Einar Escaf, exproducer de Carlos Vives.

Saludos,
Pupo
Old 15th January 2006
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpupo74
Hola Armando,

De Barranquilla, Colombia. Ahora estoy viviendo en Montreal y estare aca por una par de anyos. Luego regreso a seguir con lo que deje, mi productora con , exproducer de Carlos Vives.

Saludos,
Pupo
Why are you living in Montreal? Something to do with music?

Best regards and good luck.

Armando Avila
Old 15th January 2006
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
mindbend's Avatar
 

I just got a brand new Royer R121 yesterday and was wondering what type of methods people were using to mic the guitar cabinets. Thanks Delcosmos for the tip about the Royer website having pictures, etc. How loud can you run your amps without damaging the R121 with these techniques? I have a Soldano Hotrod 100XL and a Marshall TSL100 and I usually run them at about half volume and they can really move some air through my Marshall and Mesa cabs. I could barely afford the mic in the first place and I am really weary of shoving it as close to the amps as some of those pictures show. I thought Royer recommended putting the mics slightly off axis to avoid direct airblasts to the ribbon. In some of those pics they are straight on and about 3 inches from the grill cloth. Has anybody had problems blowing the ribbon with these techniques? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Old 15th January 2006
  #12
Lives for gear
 
DirkB's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbend
I just got a brand new Royer R121 yesterday and was wondering what type of methods people were using to mic the guitar cabinets. Thanks Delcosmos for the tip about the Royer website having pictures, etc. How loud can you run your amps without damaging the R121 with these techniques? I have a Soldano Hotrod 100XL and a Marshall TSL100 and I usually run them at about half volume and they can really move some air through my Marshall and Mesa cabs. I could barely afford the mic in the first place and I am really weary of shoving it as close to the amps as some of those pictures show. I thought Royer recommended putting the mics slightly off axis to avoid direct airblasts to the ribbon. In some of those pics they are straight on and about 3 inches from the grill cloth. Has anybody had problems blowing the ribbon with these techniques? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Start with the R-121 dead center on the cone, but get something like a 30 degrees angle to avoid too much impact. I run the amps just as loud as I would using a SM57. I start with something like 4-5" of the speaker and take it from there. Be prepared to roll of some lows on the amp when you close mic with the R-121 though...

Good luck,
Dirk
Old 15th January 2006
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbend
I just got a brand new Royer R121 yesterday and was wondering what type of methods people were using to mic the guitar cabinets. Thanks Delcosmos for the tip about the Royer website having pictures, etc. How loud can you run your amps without damaging the R121 with these techniques? I have a Soldano Hotrod 100XL and a Marshall TSL100 and I usually run them at about half volume and they can really move some air through my Marshall and Mesa cabs. I could barely afford the mic in the first place and I am really weary of shoving it as close to the amps as some of those pictures show. I thought Royer recommended putting the mics slightly off axis to avoid direct airblasts to the ribbon. In some of those pics they are straight on and about 3 inches from the grill cloth. Has anybody had problems blowing the ribbon with these techniques? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Honestly Im doing exactly as the picture (Cortesy of Royer, Ryan Hewitt and Jerry Finn) but you make me start thinking about it, I am getting outstanding results but maybe I should angle the royer because we are doing guitar tracks at very high volumes, I found that altough the royer sounds gerat by himself, the combination is what makes the guitar sounds with body and definition.

Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com
Old 16th January 2006
  #14
Lives for gear
 
jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcosmos
Why are you living in Montreal? Something to do with music?

Best regards and good luck.

Armando Avila

Hi Armando,

I'm living right now in Montreal cause I'm studying at McGill Univeristy. I'm attending the Masters program in Sound Recording and will do so until next year.

Best Regards,
Pupo
Old 16th January 2006
  #15
Lives for gear
 
jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcosmos
Honestly Im doing exactly as the picture (Cortesy of Royer, Ryan Hewitt and Jerry Finn) but you make me start thinking about it, I am getting outstanding results but maybe I should angle the royer because we are doing guitar tracks at very high volumes, I found that altough the royer sounds gerat by himself, the combination is what makes the guitar sounds with body and definition.

Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com

Yep,

Roger recommends to angle your mics if they're gonna handle high SPL's. If you angle them your ribbons will last more and sound better through time. I remember reading this in the manual that comes with it.

Regards to all,
Pupo
Old 16th January 2006
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpupo74
Armando,

No sabia que estabas por aca en gearslutz. Te felicito por todo el buen trabajo que has venido haciendo durante tu carrera.

Saludos,
Pupo
P.D.
No me conoces pero sigo tu trabajo...
Hei thetta er snidugt, allir ad skrifa a sinu eigin tungumali gerir thetta allt svo miklu skemmtilegra og audveldar folki ad tengja. Kannski eru einhverjar graejudruslur her fra Pakistan sem geta kennt manni arabisku. Hvad segid thid um thad?
Old 16th January 2006
  #17
C/G
Lives for gear
 
C/G's Avatar
 

Used a very similar combo this weekend. Mic was a Gefell M582 tube mic with M70 capsule ( Like used in posters UM 70 ) and a Fostex ribbon. Ribbon was in front of the speaker cone, about 2 inches in front of the grill and Gefell was back about 3 feet. Those M7 capsules seemed to overload easily on loud amps, and I did not have a pad on the pre we were using so I could not jam it up close. The amps were very loud. Sounded nice.
Old 16th January 2006
  #18
Lives for gear
 

i often use this combo- m582 (m70) and 121 about3-4 inches off the center off the speaker on my deluxe. the gefell handles the volume fine. i usually match the 121 with an api and the gefell with a 1066. these pres give you lots of options with those particular mics, although you still have to dip a little low mid and boost a little 5k on the 121. the 582 hardly ever needs anything. great for that half distorted fender sound.
david
Old 16th January 2006
  #19
C/G
Lives for gear
 
C/G's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beats workin'
i often use this combo- m582 (m70) and 121 about3-4 inches off the center off the speaker on my deluxe. the gefell handles the volume fine. the 582 hardly ever needs anything. great for that half distorted fender sound.
david
Mine were overloading and so was my UM92 with the same capsule. Other times they were fine but we did have it in front of a very, very loud 4 x 12". It was even crapping out 6 feet back. And you are right, the M582 hardly needs anything. It always sounds great.
Old 16th January 2006
  #20
Lives for gear
 
mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by delcosmos
Hi, 2 months a go I saw this mic setting on the Royer labs web site ( Jerry Finn recording some Blink182 stuff) and since Im producing a Rock band with lots of MESA-SOLDANO-PLEXI-ORANGE-4x12, I finally tried this Royer-Geffel combination and... holly god!!!! It sounds amazing!! I usually records my amps just with SM57 but this set up sounds awsome, I A/B'd those mics against the 57 and the royer-geffel combo killed that poor 57.



Im in love with Royer mics!! ( and Gefell and Pearlman and old Newmanns and ...and...I know, Im a gearslut!!!)

Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com
How does the phasing work out with that setup? Do you have to reverse one of the mics?

www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 16th January 2006
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]
How does the phasing work out with that setup? Do you have to reverse one of the mics?

www.bluethumbproductions.com
Hi, Im not having phase issues when I put both mics together (same as photo above), If I put away the Gefell the stars to phasing, and since my UMT70 have pad I can put it against the grille and sounds great, Today Im gonna angle the Royer a bit to avoid problems.

Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com
Old 18th January 2006
  #22
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by delcosmos
Hi, Im not having phase issues when I put both mics together (same as photo above), If I put away the Gefell the stars to phasing, and since my UMT70 have pad I can put it against the grille and sounds great, Today Im gonna angle the Royer a bit to avoid problems.

Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com

Dumb question....when you use two mics like this, are they both being routed to separate tracks???

TH
Old 18th January 2006
  #23
Lives for gear
 

i use an ibp to get the phase just right, and generally do run them to separate tracks so i can feature on or the other at different parts of the song or pan them differently . the attack and "feel" are so different, it gives you a lot of options.
david
Old 18th January 2006
  #24
Lives for gear
 
ripper's Avatar
 

greta combo..

ditto on mic combo... i often use a neumann-gefell cmv563 w/ m7 capsule (the lollipop mic) and a royer 122 straight on but a bit further back as i want to perserve my 122 and don't want to overload the 563.. (and it seems to sound great that way anyways.. a bit more opened...) both into chandler TG pres.. or sometimes the 122 into a V72 which saturates at hi spl a bit... the 563 a bit cleaner and the v72 a bit satured gives two nice tracks to combine... think neil young distorted crazyhorse.

royer makes a nice little windscreen I sometimes use if it's WAY loud so i don't ruin the mic.

the problem w/ the off-axis thing is then it's a bit hard to get 2 mics equal distance from speaker for phase correctness. i've got IBP's but prefer to do it w/out interjecting unnecessary boxes. btw/ IBP's are amazing and i'd recommend them to anyone... but it still isn't as cool, tite and pur as 2 equal distance mics. they're a real lifesaver sometimes tho!

just did an album w/ above combo on lead guitarist's JMP-quad setup and a single AEA ribbon into a tg pre on rhythm guitarist's AC30.. about 10 inchs back.

holy sheets in the wind!! what a classic blend of tones. made me an instant hero! heh
Old 18th January 2006
  #25
Lives for gear
 
ripper's Avatar
 

clarification

both 563 and 122 are equal distance from speaker
Old 20th January 2006
  #26
Lives for gear
 
allaccess's Avatar
I've never blown up a royer in front of the most ridiculously loud guitar and bass cabinets (122 is great on an SVT from 6-10" away) and I've even used them on drums (one on the kick from 2-3' away, angled toward the floor a bit and one over the shoulder...). I went to the Royer shop one day and saw what the ribbon actually looks like (2 micron thick??) and thought it might make me more cautious, but not really...

99.9% of the time combine the 2 mics on a gtr cab to one track. Get a sound, make a commitment people! I also like to EQ after combining, which makes me work harder to get each mic sounding as good as possible for its role in the sound, but it's a lot bigger sounding in the end if the mics are placed right rather than eqing it... But then again... no rules right??


Ryan
Old 20th January 2006
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by allaccess
I've never blown up a royer in front of the most ridiculously loud guitar and bass cabinets (122 is great on an SVT from 6-10" away) and I've even used them on drums (one on the kick from 2-3' away, angled toward the floor a bit and one over the shoulder...). I went to the Royer shop one day and saw what the ribbon actually looks like (2 micron thick??) and thought it might make me more cautious, but not really...

99.9% of the time combine the 2 mics on a gtr cab to one track. Get a sound, make a commitment people! I also like to EQ after combining, which makes me work harder to get each mic sounding as good as possible for its role in the sound, but it's a lot bigger sounding in the end if the mics are placed right rather than eqing it... But then again... no rules right??


Ryan
Hi Ryan, honestly... Thats what I think about angle the Royer, because if Im getting a [email protected]#$ng great sound putting both mics together why change it?, Its worth it , maybe I should buy more Royers instead, if the mesa blast that poor 122!!!!

BTW, I don't know if its something psychologic but I don't hear the same sound if I angle the royer, but every time I make Mr. Ryan's technique everybody in the room screams YES!!!!!.

Best.
Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com
Old 20th January 2006
  #28
Lives for gear
 
mr.gefell's Avatar
 

delcosmos,

try the gefell M900 and md100 on the guitar cabs.

i think you will love the clarity and the boldness.
Old 20th January 2006
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.gefell
delcosmos,

try the gefell M900 and md100 on the guitar cabs.

i think you will love the clarity and the boldness.
Hi Mr. Gefell, I have m930 but I think it's a very diffent beast than M900.
BTW what a wired mic is that M900!!!! Im shure it should sound amazing.


Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com
Old 20th January 2006
  #30
Lives for gear
 
mr.gefell's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by delcosmos
Hi Mr. Gefell, I have m930 but I think it's a very diffent beast than M900.
BTW what a wired mic is that M900!!!! Im shure it should sound amazing.


Best.

Armando Avila
www.cosmosproducciones.com

it's a pretty cool mic..the successor of the PM860 mic. I think you will love it.
As for looks..it most certainly must be inspired by the LOMO 19A19 mic.

Good Luck!!!
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