The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Speck LiLo console - any users here?
Old 31st October 2010
  #1
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Speck LiLo console - any users here?

It looks like the 24-channel Lilo is my dream console.
I have already talked to my local distributor and to Vince / Speck, and it might no be easy to try it out before purchasing in my location.

Hence I am looking for user comments, first hand experience...

What do you like about it? How do you use it? How would you describe its sound? Are there even Speck owners in Germany, preferably in or near Berlin?

Any input is very welcome, thanks in advance!
Old 31st October 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
 
tapehiss's Avatar
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...lo-owners.html

Speck Lilo

Speck LiLo - Line Mixer

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ision-two.html

I feel the same about the LiLo, it is my dream rig. When I discovered the unit, I was surprised there's not more users around here. I really love the expandability too..... which allows you to buy either a 16 or 8 channel to add on to your 16 or 24.

Seems like the perfect center piece for integrating outboard!!!!!
Old 31st October 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
Howdy airmate... you already know me from some of the other LiLo threads, but I figured I'd just chime in here anyway. I own a 40-channel LiLo set-up... a 24 channel LiLo console plus a 16 channel LiLo sidecar. I have nothing but praise for the LiLo. Again, if you already own a lot of top-notch outboard gear (eqs, compressors, etc) and need a super high quality analog summing solution with 100mm faders, sends, groups, and very many other routing options, the LiLo is the perfect console for the task. It was purpose designed for this very situation.

Again, in the past I've had other analog summing solutions, smaller units with knobs, but I found it difficult to ride the knobs when making real-time adjustments during a mix pass. 100mm faders on the other hand are VERY manageable, WAY easier to make critical fader rides during a mix pass etc. A summing solution with small knobs really doesn't work UNLESS you are absolutely not going to do any analog level riding during mixes. But to me, real-time fader riding is a big part of the joy of true analog summing / mixing, you can really "play" the LiLo as if it were a musical instrument... well, it in fact IS a musical instrument. It allows you to become way more involved with the mix, it adds a whole other level of human-vibe to the end result.

Certainly can't go wrong with a LiLo in any case. It's a solid piece, incredibly versatile and sonically excellent.

Old 1st November 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
Certainly can't go wrong with a LiLo in any case. It's a solid piece, incredibly versatile and sonically excellent.
Again - thanks for your comments!

You don't happen to have pictures of your setup? I'd be sooo curious to see how it all looks...

And how did you "physically" integrate yor DAW in that setup? I'd love to put my computer monitors behind the console, but what to do with the keyboard and mouse then? Did you put the desk in a furniture/console, or do you use the console stand from Speck?
Old 1st November 2010
  #5
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

i don't have one but i love Vince's work and if i had one close i could snag for a good price i would not pass on it: )~
Old 1st November 2010
  #6
I own a 16 channel Lilo and couldn't be happier - I think 666666 pretty much represents my feeling towards the Lilo! thumbsup
Old 1st November 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate View Post
...You don't happen to have pictures of your setup? I'd be sooo curious to see how it all looks...
Unfortunately I do not have photos yet. My new room is actually not 100% completed yet, I've had to move a few times in the past few years....

And this actually brings up another critically important and extremely valuable trait of the LiLo, verses a traditional large console with built-in pres, eqs etc, that's as large as a Cadillac and weighs many hundreds of pounds.

Using a LiLo along with separate racks of outboard inserted allows for easy MOBILITY! I can take the LiLos and all my racks, load it all into my minivan, all by myself, and go anywhere, quickly and easily. Try doing this with a large traditional console. I had considered obtaining a large traditional console in the past, but I DO need to move things occasionally, and I don't feel like buying a forklift and a large box truck just to be able to do that.

Having a LiLo and separate racks makes life SO much easier than it would be otherwise, unless perhaps you are able to find a permanent home for the console where you'll almost never ever need to move it. A LiLo along with separate racks of high-end gear effectively gives you what a huge traditional console would give you, except you can move it.

But, even aside from my issues with having to move my personal facility occasionally, I've had some gigs in recent times where the client specifically requested that I set up camp in THEIR home. I'm finding that famous musicians that are on tour a lot like to stay at home when they're actually AT home, their time at home is limited and very valuable to them, the last thing they want to do when not touring is leave their families to go record. Thus, having a set-up that can be moved easily is proving to be even that much MORE valuable.

As for where to place the computer monitors and computer keyboard, etc, I've experimented with different set-ups, haven't decided what is "best" yet. Lot's of options though.

One option is to keep your computer monitor / keyboard in front of you, and then place the LiLo off to the side on an angle... I'm lefty so I've placed it to my left side... and placed gear racks under it.

Another option is to keep the LiLo right in front of you, then hang the computer monitor "over" it, so to speak... basically place the monitor on a stand "behind" the mixer, but slightly over it as well. You may need to make a custom stand for this, that's what I've done, but maybe you can purchase such a thing, not sure. Then the keyboard can either go under the console table in one of those little keyboard slide out drawer things, or the keyboard can even go right ON the console table, in front of the console, this forces the console to be set back a bit, but it can work fine.

As for console / computer arrangement, it's really a personal preference thing. I think the most important thing to realize is, there are NO RULES. Do what WORKS for you.... period. I see guys sometimes getting too wrapped up in how things should be... and they feel they are limited to whatever console furniture is readily available in catalogs or whatever. ALWAYS think outside the box and don't be afraid to custom cobble stands and furniture, and if you are not good with carpentry and fabrication, you can always hire a carpenter to build something per your specs and drawings, often not too expensive and maybe even cheaper than a pre-built thing in a catalog.

I plan on arranging things in my new room in a considerably radical manner. It would take me way too long to try to describe my plans, you'll just have to wait until it's all built and I'll surely be posting photos of it when it's done. All I'm worried about right now is getting the heating completed because it's starting to get cold here! Will be sweating in some baseboard heating elements next week hopefully. First things first!

For kicks, I'll try to snap a few pics of the LiLos and post later this week. They're currently sitting in a storage room, but they look mighty fine regardless. I don't think I've ever seen a pic anywhere of a 40-channel LiLo arrangement. It's definitely VERY cool. This is one seriously bad-ass set-up.

Can't wait to get the room done, but music projects keep popping up, I can't be working on music and working on construction at the same time, it's been a bit of a catch 22.
Old 2nd November 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot View Post
Sound? What sound? heh It only sounds like whatever I put into it, adding just the right amount of whatever happens when you can separate elements and run them through wide-open, ultra-quiet analog electronics with enormous headroom.
Thanks, that sums up exactly what I have read anywhere so far!
But in my world a perfectly neutral sounding piece of gear does not exist, there are so many shades of "transparent" or "neutral"... that's the reason why I'm asking.
I do not expect a console to be sonically absolutely "invisible", as I know that this is just not possible. But I can say that I do not like the particular version of "transparency", that quite a few manufacturers seem to follow. I for one do not like those super-fast op-amp circuits that might show many details in the time domain but tend so sound rather peaky. I am all for an open sound, but it should remain somewhat on the smoother side. I am mixing so many "digital" productions which have rather too many transients than not enough definition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot View Post
Mine sits in an Argosy unit, alongside a Mackie MCU.
Yes, I have seen a picture in another thread. Great setup!
Old 2nd November 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
Another option is to keep the LiLo right in front of you, then hang the computer monitor "over" it, so to speak... basically place the monitor on a stand "behind" the mixer, but slightly over it as well. You may need to make a custom stand for this, that's what I've done, but maybe you can purchase such a thing, not sure. Then the keyboard can either go under the console table in one of those little keyboard slide out drawer things, or the keyboard can even go right ON the console table, in front of the console, this forces the console to be set back a bit, but it can work fine.

As for console / computer arrangement, it's really a personal preference thing. I think the most important thing to realize is, there are NO RULES. Do what WORKS for you.... period. I see guys sometimes getting too wrapped up in how things should be... and they feel they are limited to whatever console furniture is readily available in catalogs or whatever. ALWAYS think outside the box and don't be afraid to custom cobble stands and furniture, and if you are not good with carpentry and fabrication, you can always hire a carpenter to build something per your specs and drawings, often not too expensive and maybe even cheaper than a pre-built thing in a catalog.
Wow, thanks again for all the VERY valuable thoughts and information! This is very much appreciated!

You are so right that it comes down to knowing what you want. In my case, this is absolutely true. I would like to put the computer screens above/behind the desk, and I was just looking for some inspiration regarding a solution for the computer keyboard and the mouse. I am sorry if I couldn't bring this across, English is not my native language...
Tomorrow I will post a picture of my current setup, I believe it would be pretty clear then what I am looking for.

Probably I will build a stand for the console myself, with a sliding tray for the keyboard and the mouse to go under the console. I did many similar DIY things already, I have built stands for some of my racks and also my broadband absorbers myself (and the kitchen at home, but that is another story...).
It is so true that custom DIY jobs very often get you exactly what you want at very reasonable expenses.

Oh, and please post pictures whenever you have them and feel like sharing them! Your setup seems to be killer and I would SO love to get a glimpse...
Old 2nd November 2010
  #10
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate View Post

...there are so many shades of "transparent" or "neutral"... I for one do not like those super-fast op-amp circuits that might show many details in the time domain but tend so sound rather peaky. I am all for an open sound, but it should remain somewhat on the smoother side....
Then you're REALLY going to love the LiLo.

It's super clean, open, quiet AND smooth! It is not sterile or edgy or peaky at all. It's about as clean as you can get while still having a very subtle and musical "smoothness" to it... not sure how else to describe it.

But I do know what you mean, and the LiLo is pretty much exactly what you want. It is in no way clinical or "hyper-clean", it just sounds GOOD.

If you can't get your hands on a LiLo soon, maybe you can get your hands on an X.Sum. This unit also sounds awesome and has that same type of "musicality" to it while still being ultra clean and quiet. I know a guy who is an incredible well known musician and audio engineer, I brought him my X.Sum a few years ago to check out, after he messed with it for a bit, he bolted it into his rack and it's been there ever since and everything he does goes through it... the outputs of his DAW are "permanently" wired into it... he never gave it back, I had to go out and buy another one for myself! Seems that this is how guys with real-deal ears feel about these units.

Oh yeah, just a reminder, you can have output transformers installed on the LiLo output stage if you wish. This will add more color of course and "round off edges" even more if that's what you want. Your choice. Talk to Vince at Speck if you have questions about it. I ordered my LiLo without the transformers as my goal was to go as clean as possible... and I'm happy with my decision. I feel it's "just right" as is... incredible fidelity, clarity, cleanliness etc, but never harsh, edgy, peaky, etc. When I want more color, I just patch in eqs and compressors into the mix that are more colored. Or you could even just patch a colored master buss eq and/or compressor at the LiLo outputs if you want to color the final mixbuss output... very easy to do. All the more reason to keep the console output stage as clean as possible, it allows for more sonic options later on.

Ha ha, I should work for Speck! I don't, but I am a big fan of Speck because I so very much believe in the designs / products. I was following the LiLo years before the first one was even built. Can't remember the year, possibly late `90's or early 2000s, but I remember Vince posting about his LiLo concept while it was still on the drawing board, this was back on the old "rec.audio.pro" (R.A.P.) forum (before Gearslutz existed), I remember thinking how this was exactly what I always wanted, even back then... and once I saved up enough pennies and had some space, I finally bought one.... and so far it has lived up to my very high expectations. It truly is the perfect solution for those who already own racks of great outboard that need a real-deal, high-fidelity mixer with big faders to tie it all together.

Old 3rd November 2010
  #11
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
Then you're REALLY going to love the LiLo.

It's super clean, open, quiet AND smooth! It is not sterile or edgy or peaky at all. It's about as clean as you can get while still having a very subtle and musical "smoothness" to it... not sure how else to describe it.

But I do know what you mean, and the LiLo is pretty much exactly what you want. It is in no way clinical or "hyper-clean", it just sounds GOOD.
Man, I am so stoked! It all sounds like the LiLo is the perfect choice for me.
I have already talked to my distributor, they have an X.Sum in stock that I can try out in the next days.

Here is a couple of pictures of my setup as of today - minus the Electrodynes, which are being sent in for repair at the moment.
I simply need a great sounding desk (and a new set of converters) to tie this all together adequately.
I would pretty much keep everything as it is and replace the table with the mixing desk.









Old 3rd November 2010
  #12
You will make the MOST of all that great gear using a LiLo, airmate!
Old 3rd November 2010
  #13
Lives for gear
 

That is an admirable collection of outboard gear! Very nice.

If you can't find a safer spot for that Dangerous BAX EQ I'd be glad to watch over it for you.
Old 3rd November 2010
  #14
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdunn View Post
That is an admirable collection of outboard gear! Very nice.

If you can't find a safer spot for that Dangerous BAX EQ I'd be glad to watch over it for you.
Thanks! heh

Unfortunately the Bax EQ is just on load for a magazine review (I am a freelance editor with the German "Sound&Recording" mag). I am still trying to figure out whether I would keep it or buy a second pair of Electrodyne 511 modules. THOSE are mighty nice EQs as well! Unfortunately they have to be repaired/modified as I and some other customers in Europe have experienced some strange HF issues with then. But they soound so goood...
My pair lives on the drum buss, right after the 2500. So I have to get a sedcond pair I can use for other things. But the Bax is great as well. I could happily use one or two of them as well...
Old 3rd November 2010
  #15
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy_asakawa View Post
You will make the MOST of all that great gear using a LiLo, airmate!
Yes, I am SO looking foward to take this huge step - finally...
Old 3rd November 2010
  #16
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate View Post
Here is a couple of pictures of my setup as of today
Damn bro -- you have a Vertigo "Mix Satellite" and compressor [not to mention a bunch of other cool ****!! - but the "Mix Satellite" has become a "must" unit for me].

I may have some mixes coming up I've been hired to do and have no room - do you hire your place out to vagabonds?
Old 3rd November 2010
  #17
Lives for gear
 
jindrich's Avatar
 

airmate,

sorry to step like this in a Lilo thread, but I think you should at least get a one-on-one demo of the Matrix before you make any decision; it's the desk that was made for engineers like you, and at 25kg still fairly portable.

At €13k+VAT is a bit more than what you wanted to invest, but it also does a lot more: moving faders, full auto, total recall, Logic+PT control, automated patchbay, etc.

Call Rico at SSL Germany and get a private demo. It's free :-)
Old 3rd November 2010
  #18
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
airmate, MAN, that is some gear collection you have there!!! Awesome!!!

Below are a few teaser pics. This is my 40-channel LiLo set-up, currently sitting in a storage room, awaiting completion of our new mix room.







Old 3rd November 2010
  #19
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
And for goofs, here's the room the LiLo will be going in... it's further along now than in this pic, but still some work left to do.

About 666 square feet with a 14' high ceiling, pine planking and eventually a hardwood floor.



Old 3rd November 2010
  #20
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

looking forward to seeing some pics as you go and when you are done 666666: )~
Old 4th November 2010
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

airmate,
what a horrible, horrible looking table!!! The other stuff is pretty nice though... (running out the room in a fit of envy)heh
Old 4th November 2010
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

ohhh.... Speckxy!!!!! That is one obscene Lilo!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
airmate, MAN, that is some gear collection you have there!!! Awesome!!!

Below are a few teaser pics. This is my 40-channel LiLo set-up, currently sitting in a storage room, awaiting completion of our new mix room.







Old 4th November 2010
  #23
Lives for gear
 
the fxs's Avatar
 

thumbsup
that's some top notch gear right there!
damn, you must have been buying stuff for ... ahhhm,.... a long time, bwoy.

but you could have photoshoped that little mackie mixer out of the pics tuttheh

in fact it looks a bit lost with all that "rack beauty" on the side.
Old 4th November 2010
  #24
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Damn bro -- you have a Vertigo "Mix Satellite" and compressor [not to mention a bunch of other cool ****!! - but the "Mix Satellite" has become a "must" unit for me].

I may have some mixes coming up I've been hired to do and have no room - do you hire your place out to vagabonds?
Well, Andy and Markus are top notch guys, I simply love their stuff...

Thanks for your comments and your interest in my place! Please shoot me a PM, and then let's take it from there. I'd be happy to help you out!
Old 4th November 2010
  #25
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
airmate,

sorry to step like this in a Lilo thread, but I think you should at least get a one-on-one demo of the Matrix before you make any decision; it's the desk that was made for engineers like you, and at 25kg still fairly portable.

At €13k+VAT is a bit more than what you wanted to invest, but it also does a lot more: moving faders, full auto, total recall, Logic+PT control, automated patchbay, etc.

Call Rico at SSL Germany and get a private demo. It's free :-)
Thanks for your suggestion!
You are absolutely right, the Matrix is definitely on my map! The price difference is not that important. I simply want to get it right and find a solution I can live with for a longer period.

Of course I have been thinking back and forth about the Matrix, Zen, and a couple of other options. But somehow I do not feel comfortable with these analog/digital hybrid solutions. My experience with analog gear is that it ages very well. I can not exactly say this about the digital equipment I have worked with, maybe except for the Quantec which is a quality of its own.

I like the simplicity and straightforwardness of the LiLo. Maybe I am just stupid or lazy, but this looks like a desk that I would like to touch each and every day at the studio. I have already put my hands on a Matrix, and somehow I just did not "feel" it. I started out as a guitar player, perhaps some of my thoughts and views are a bit old-fashioned because I am so used to physically touch my instruments - instruments that have a great feel to them. To me things have never been about features and possibilities, but about simplicity and what feels great.

I know that fader automation is a great thing, and I can remember so many situations when this would have been a nice thing to have.

But I would really like to keep this simple and straightforward, as I know myself, and that would just feel "right" for me.

And then there are two very simple things: I like the idea of having 24 faders, and I definitely need at least two mono sub groups. The Matrix offers neither of them.
Old 4th November 2010
  #26
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
airmate, MAN, that is some gear collection you have there!!! Awesome!!!

Below are a few teaser pics. This is my 40-channel LiLo set-up, currently sitting in a storage room, awaiting completion of our new mix room.
DAMN!!!! That looks so great....
I am SO wanting to put my hands on one of these...

Thanks for sharing these pictures, they are actually the first hi-res pictures of the LiLo I have ever seen. What a beauty!

Please post some more pictures of your room when things have moved forward. It looks like it is going to be an awesome setup, too!
Old 4th November 2010
  #27
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the fxs View Post
thumbsup
that's some top notch gear right there!
damn, you must have been buying stuff for ... ahhhm,.... a long time, bwoy.

but you could have photoshoped that little mackie mixer out of the pics tuttheh

in fact it looks a bit lost with all that "rack beauty" on the side.

The Mackie is the weak link at my place, no question - that is the reason why I started this thread, after all.
But I must say it is much better than people seem to think on this board.
When you know how to make it work, you really can make it work, at least to some degree.

Recently I have been doing mixes for a project where other engineers have been involved as well. And both the client and the mastering engineer liked my mixes better than those which have been mixed on an SSL.

I do not want to compare the Mackie to an SSL. I just want to say that there are so many other factors involved (with the Engineer not being the least important one...), that can lead to a situation where the desk is not the bottleneck of the whole thing.

I have also witnessed a situation where three different versions of the mixes have been supplied for mastering. The whole album was mixed three times, on a Neve, on an API and on a small Mackie. And the Mackie version has made it finally.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to replace that little thing in a heartbeat, but I do not feel like I can not get some work done with it.
And the reason why I kept it so long is that I need the routing capabilities. A 2-Bus might sound "better", but there are no aux send, pan pots etc.

Bottom line: I am happy to replace it now, but you can get some fairly decent things done with it.
Old 4th November 2010
  #28
Lives for gear
 
dubrichie's Avatar
since you're in Germany, i think that you should definitely check out the ADT Toolmod Console.

i took the time to fully digest it's capabilities and i have to say that it is an amazingly well thought-out console system.

the flexibility of routing is just mind blowing.

it would be more expensive than a LiLo for a similar amount of channels, but, wow! for example, the two paths of the inline stereo channels can be used as stereo inputs and stereo group masters at the same time. very useful.

three line inputs per mono channel, two switched, reversible inserts, etc.

and you can get a full-on VU meterbridge. sexy.

but i have to agree that the LiLo is a very cool console too.

good luck!
Old 8th November 2010
  #29
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubrichie View Post
since you're in Germany, i think that you should definitely check out the ADT Toolmod Console.
Thanks for your suggestion!

I have some experience with the ADT 700 series, and I did not like them very much.

Since quite a few people have recommended the ToolMod system to me, I will probably try do demo it. But if it sounds similar to the V700 stuff, I am not going to like it, unfortunately. However, the ToolMod layout is very interesting indeed!
Old 13th November 2010
  #30
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 

Update: Yesterday I have had the chance to listen to a bunch of files someone has made - a huge comparison between the line stages of all kinds of mixing desks, outboard gear etc.

There were files from the Speck as well as from ADT, SSL, an old Helios desk and much more.

Especially in comparison to the discrete stuff I could hear the IC OpAmps pretty well. BUT: The Speck sounds MUCH better than the SSL Superanalogue! Less harsh and dense in the upper mids, and it has an extended low end, the bass sounds much more open in comparison to SSL.
I did not like the ADT either. It sounded ok, but somewhat "complicated". There was a strange separation between the various elements of a mix, whereas other pieces of gear brought the sound together in a nice way.

Furthermore, I liked the non-transformer version of the Speck MUCH better. It simply sounds more even, clearer. The transformers add a certain low mid density that sounded a tiny bit unbalanced to me.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 152 views: 124215
Avatar for Samuelito
Samuelito 22nd June 2020
replies: 51 views: 4755
Avatar for woodfoot
woodfoot 26th April 2009
replies: 152 views: 33874
Avatar for coder
coder 3rd March 2020
replies: 52 views: 2984
Avatar for Zappacat
Zappacat 13th March 2020
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
πŸ–¨οΈ Show Printable Version
βœ‰οΈ Email this Page
πŸ” Search thread
πŸŽ™οΈ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump