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Neve Vr Legend Consoles
Old 28th October 2010
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Neve Vr Legend

Hello
Someone offered me a 48 channels Neve VR Legend (1997) with very low hours of work in perfect shape. The price is the normal price of such a console (€40.000) but they offer me a long time loan (years), with the possibility to redeem the console eventually.
I don't know how they'll charge per month, I think not less than €500.
Somewhere I read that these console are very expensive in mantainance and must be left switched 24/7, and need air conditioning bacause of the heat they provide...and so they can cost in excess of €10.000 per year to run (electricity)
If it's true, considering my current rates, I could never afford and maintan it. My studio work with indie and underground bands, I'm not in the BIG market and never will, but this console is a dream and I'm considering it.
Can you give me some advice about that? Or warnings?
thanks
andrea
Old 28th October 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
 
doubledecker's Avatar
Oh man, where do i start?
Let me just tell you that i was constantly sweating leaning over this desk while mixing because it radiates so much heat it's ridiculous.

Owners were complaining to me about electrical bill which apparently was huge because it was advised never to switch the power off for more than an couple of minutes, and modules had to be fixed often because of this heat that would just cause them to malfunction, and also automation computer would crash every now and then because of the damn heat, so you've had to switch off the console and power it up again because reset switch did'nt work for some reason.

But apart from that it was a nice deskheh
Old 28th October 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 
The MPCist's Avatar
 

Man... just thinking of my old Neve V makes me sweat and wake up screaming! Put lotsa money towards recapping (constantly), air conditioning, electricity, and overall maintenance and expect a dozen channels to have problems at any given time.......

But if they are letting you 'rent it'.... by all means have them pay for shipping it over to your place, and use it for a few months. Make sure that any problems that happen during its time in your place does not constitute a problem of yours and them asking you to fix it....

But don't buy it. Really.
Old 25th September 2013
  #4
Here for the gear
 

I am being trained on a legend for my final year in a sound engineering and design degree course for a mastering module (get to record in there too however)

they are crazily hot. we have a dedicated machine room which has the air conditioning on permenantly to house the power units that have never been switched off. plus the desk kicks out a good amount of heat too! but i tell you, the results ive got from that desk have been truly worth it! I guess however that is no use since Im not paying for the electricity bill or indeed for both air con units.

all can advise is mix in your underwear?
Old 25th September 2013
  #5
Worked on this desk quite a bit and I have to say I wasn't ever crazy about it. I much prefer any Ssl desk for workflow over it and I am a Neve freak and love the vintage Neve stuff. If you want a Neve desk save your money go for something 80 series and if your budget isn't huge then go small and get a Kelso. That's the sound you want and if your after workflow then go Ssl and get a 4k or a 6k.
Old 25th September 2013
  #6
Gear Nut
Worked a bit on one.
You can get good results on it, no doubt. Quite liked it.
As others say.. alot of heat and recapping because of said heat.
Awesome in the winter when your hands are cold though:P

Sent from my GT-I9505
Old 25th September 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 
in the red's Avatar
 

if you´re not in the BIG market i would strongly advice you to stay away from such a beast! the costs of keeping it running, maintenance, would scare me, personally, without a business to justify it..
Old 26th September 2013
  #8
Have one (well, a VSP - essentially the same but with a scoring panel) in our studio.

They're just not great designed consoles. Lots of the switches you can't get anymore, to do ANYTHING on the channels maintenance-wise involves taking out 10-15 screws (lots of wasted time), it does run hot, and does require a lot of maintenance.

I'm not that fussed by the EQ or the dynamics sections either.

It's a great desk compared to lower end consoles - but I'd rather have an SSL G for the same price. It's not the desk the 88R is, nor is it a "vintage" Neve.
Old 26th September 2013
  #9
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GeneHall's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Have one (well, a VSP - essentially the same but with a scoring panel) in our studio.

They're just not great designed consoles. Lots of the switches you can't get anymore, to do ANYTHING on the channels maintenance-wise involves taking out 10-15 screws (lots of wasted time), it does run hot, and does require a lot of maintenance.

I'm not that fussed by the EQ or the dynamics sections either.

It's a great desk compared to lower end consoles - but I'd rather have an SSL G for the same price. It's not the desk the 88R is, nor is it a "vintage" Neve.
It will heat your home in winter time though. You'll be nice and warm while you're fixing it.
No 88R is an understatement.
SSL 4000 G is a sure thing. Lovely furniture.
Old 1st August 2017
  #10
Here for the gear
 

We had one in our 'A' studio. Lovely sound, awkward routing and ran very, very, very hot. One night it spontaneously burst into flames - quite literally flames were coming out of a channel strip. The tape op rang the maintenance engineer and said "The Neve's on fire! I'm holding the fire extinguisher and the pin's out! What do I do now?!" He told her not to douse it but to shut off the power and use a blanket to put the fire out. True story.
Old 1st August 2017
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagster View Post
We had one in our 'A' studio. Lovely sound, awkward routing and ran very, very, very hot. One night it spontaneously burst into flames - quite literally flames were coming out of a channel strip. The tape op rang the maintenance engineer and said "The Neve's on fire! I'm holding the fire extinguisher and the pin's out! What do I do now?!" He told her not to douse it but to shut off the power and use a blanket to put the fire out. True story.
I had a similar story - our tech had done some maintenance of a couple channels that had come out of a slightly different console. Installed them then left the room.

I was on the phone to the studio owner when I turned round and saw the console smoking. Said to the boss "gotta go, console's on fire" and hung up on him before pulling the channels!

I've probably already said it in this thread - it's a decent console but a hassle to maintain, and a lot of parts are now unobtainium. I have a 72ch VSP (VR with surround panel) in my current studio and I'd be happy with 48 solid channels. Mostly it's great....it needs constant love.
Old 1st August 2017
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by troubles123 View Post
Hello
Someone offered me a 48 channels Neve VR Legend (1997) with very low hours of work in perfect shape. The price is the normal price of such a console (€40.000) but they offer me a long time loan (years), with the possibility to redeem the console eventually.
I don't know how they'll charge per month, I think not less than €500.
Somewhere I read that these console are very expensive in mantainance and must be left switched 24/7, and need air conditioning bacause of the heat they provide...and so they can cost in excess of €10.000 per year to run (electricity)
If it's true, considering my current rates, I could never afford and maintan it. My studio work with indie and underground bands, I'm not in the BIG market and never will, but this console is a dream and I'm considering it.
Can you give me some advice about that? Or warnings?
thanks
andrea
Ok I would like to shed some light on why the VR probably won't make the best sounding mixes when using digital..

I been wanting to write this for a long time, and I think a lot of even experienced engineers will benefit from this.

I believe this post will help clarify all the confusion that is out there concerning using analog gear with digital.. and hopefully enable other posters to truly understand were I am coming from and actually how I feel about sound..

The Neve VR console has all its inserts and patch points at +4dbm for the most part. This operating level especially when using vintage outboard gear is certainly not ideal, and really does not reap the true sonic beauty out of vintage gear.. Why? Because most vintage gear's headroom is about +20dbm.. That being said when you patch a piece of vintage gear across a +4 patch its going to sound a bit harsh and edgy.. Now back in my day with analog tape, that edginess helped us deal with the muddy, worn out tape sound that happened when we played the tape back 200 times.. and as you might know Neve /Studer became a standard because the Neve's were hard sounding and generally the Studers were on the soft sounding side..Like I always try to teach students its the sum of all the parts.. in other words every piece of gear connected to a console including the installation, grounding, electric, leakage currents, etc plays a role in the total outcome of your sound..

SSL's E and G's been a choice amounst people that want a console because of its sound and all its patch points at at 0dbm! . Well at least using vintage outboard with a SSL yields much much better results than say a Neve console, and you especially hear it using digital..

Now lets talk a bit about ITB VS OTB..Are you with me enlighten hand and Phycho_Monkey... Here are my true thoughts on this topic..sorry I been lazy in the past..

I truly believe hybrid or even a console does not always yield "better" results than ITB BECAUSE of some of the reasons I have described above.. Most guys that try to go hybrid, end up realizing the sound is NOT smooth enough.. This is because MOST hybrid users patch there vintage outboard across a +4dbm patch, ie.. .. output of there converter, or Neve console, or summing box..

I been trying to get modern manufactures to make a modern summing box whereby the inserts will be at 0DBM or even -2dbm.. This will yield soo much better results when hybriding analog with digital..

I also truly believe some of the great engineers that have gone totally ITB is for this reason and of course ease of recall..

Most top mastering engineer's compress and eq using a 0dbm operating level.. This has been a standard in the mastering field for over 40 years..

I am hear to instill forward thinking, and my purpose is to try to take the sound of audio to the next level.. not really have silly debates with limited information

So the confusion just keeps on going, and when you really don't have answers it gets frustrating .. I know I have been there..
Old 1st August 2017
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Hi

I agree with most but not all the posts here...

The V and VR saga had a lot of issues, some still not resolved...

The Dialistat push buttons are very hard, if not impossible, to source. I know AMS-Neve bought thousands to support this console but, even if available, they are a bugger to replace. Think along the lines of a hacksaw and removing the remains with a desolder gun....

Then capacitors... they were first fitted with 85c rated and these dried out super fast required a total recap with higher temp caps. I'm not convinced any cap would work well given the huge headroom the +/-25v rails give to the VMOS output stages. Imagine a 6.3v rated cap with the signal before swinging +/- 7v of audio at near clipping levels...

The designers knew they would run hot because of the spoked "catherine wheels" below the rotary knobs that allowed heat to escape... usually into the operators face.

The 88R is a whole different beast but the V's... I would not recommend them.

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