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Can't hear "warmth" in UBK Fatso at all - period. Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 27th October 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Can't hear "warmth" in UBK Fatso at all - period.

Any tips for actually getting an effect out of this thing? I've tried exhaustively, but it really seems to have absolutely no effect on anything, even when maxed.
Old 27th October 2010
  #2
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Strange. On the Fatso of any variety, you just click the warmth button and by the third click, you will hear a lot of hi freq limiting.
The only exception would be if the input is very low, so the threshold is not hit.
Not trying to be a wiseguy at all, but do you see lights on the top of the unit lit when warmth is in? Is the unit in bypass?
Old 27th October 2010
  #3
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jchadstopherhuez's Avatar
 

perhaps your source material is quite "warm" to begin with ?

the compression curves alone on the UBK FATSO should definitely be having some sort of an "effect" on the audio you are sending in. i've used the original FATSO many times..mostly to smooth out the top end on cymbals and drums when tracking to digital.

the UBK FATSO, to my ears, really excels in the compression department...which i believe, was UBK's intent with his modifications.

i find it to be one of the easiest compressors to simply send some signal in...and then turn the knobs until good sounds come out...which is fairly quickly, in my experience.

what are you running through the FATSO ? are you seeing gain reduction on the meters ?

best,

jchristopherhughes

Last edited by jchadstopherhuez; 27th October 2010 at 04:37 PM.. Reason: poor mouse click skills
Old 27th October 2010
  #4
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jchadstopherhuez's Avatar
 

ps.

perhaps elaborating on your setup could help some trouble shooting ?

are you running pre recorded tracks into the FATSO ? are you tracking with it ?

jch
Old 27th October 2010
  #5
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camus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinosaurSR View Post
Any tips for actually getting an effect out of this thing? I've tried exhaustively, but it really seems to have absolutely no effect on anything, even when maxed.
Do you know how to even use a compressor? Did you RTFM? Do you know what you're doing?
Old 27th October 2010
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinosaurSR View Post
Any tips for actually getting an effect out of this thing? I've tried exhaustively, but it really seems to have absolutely no effect on anything, even when maxed.
Assuming the Fatso isn't broken or something...how experienced are your ears at listening to compression? I've met people who have trouble hearing compression.
Old 27th October 2010
  #7
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fanriffic's Avatar
 

I was going to start a separate thread..but seeing as all the Fatso users are here..and this is not far OT..

O.K-The saturation stage is before the comp..right?..so why,when using side-chain gain control and bringing in the comp,does the saturation input..(or at least the input *LEDs* show a )...drop?

Would you guys mind trying this..and let me know if the same thing happens...It would seem to imply all is not as is purported to be.

I messaged UBK about this,about 3 months back..(thinking it would be a pretty straight forward query)..he did initially reply saying he'd look into it..but despite a couple of follow ups,still no answer.....sure he's v busy guy,so..hey..


To the OP:The warmth is a HF limiter.Stick some cymbals,bells,acoustic gits..etc,through it...With the warmth at 50-75% and a good level going in,the LED's should def be showing gain reduction..and you should def be hearing a 'loss' of HF..if there's nothing going on,aurally or visually..you're doing something wrong..or its broken..
Old 27th October 2010
  #8
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by camus View Post
Do you know how to even use a compressor? Did you RTFM? Do you know what you're doing?
Is there a reason that you're so rude to someone asking a question? Or is it just because you're anonymous and somehow feel empowered in a sad way?



Frank
Old 27th October 2010
  #9
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

You kids behave or I'll pull this car over right now! I mean it!!!

Seriously though, to Dinosaur: the Warmth should be crushingly obvious when it's working full steam, both thru the visual meter activity and in the way it darkens the source. If you're not seeing any reduction on the Warmth meter or hearing any changes, something is definitely amiss.

One thing to note is that the Splat presets (Splat, and Splat + Spank) have such bizarre gain structures that they won't yield much Warmth activity on all but the most egregiously bright sources. But all the others --- Smooth, Glue, Spank, Smooth + Spank, Glue + Spank, and the oft-overlooked 'no preset' mode --- should all respond like a stock Fatso.

I'm going into my room now to create a quick and easy troubleshooting procedure to verify whether your unit is working right, I'll post it here shortly. If your unit has an issue, we'll get you sorted out lickety split, have no fear!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 27th October 2010
  #10
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Ok, here's how to tell if your UBK Fatso is behaving normally.

First, set up both channels for the test:

Power up, set to 'no preset', engage transformerless operation, Warmth is off, Input set to 0.

When both channels are set up this way, your UBK is powered up but no lights are on anywhere so it looks like it's off.

Now, test one channel at a time to avoid confusion:

1) Feed a 10k (not 1k, but 10k) tone into the channel

2) Creep the Input knob up until the Comfy light glows steady

3) Press the Warmth button FOUR times so the topmost LED is lit

You should now see something close to 7db of reduction on the Warmth GR meter.

4) Press the preset select button to activate Splat.

You should see no Warmth activity now.

5) Continue to press the preset select button and note the GR activity on the Warmth.

As you step thru the presets, you should see reduction on every one except Splat and Splat + Spank. Smooth is probably a touch more, Glue is probably a touch less.

Keep in mind these units are non-linear by nature, so slight variations from unit to unit are to be expected but by and large if you follow the procedure above you should get the same results.

Dinosaur, give that process a shot and please let us know how it goes.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 27th October 2010
  #11
Love great customer support! thumbsup
Old 27th October 2010
  #12
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fanriffic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanriffic View Post
O.K-The saturation stage is before the comp..right?..so why,when using side-chain gain control and bringing in the comp,why does the saturation input..(or at least the input *LEDs* show a )...drop?
..
.....and this Greg?

I'm sure the OP appreciated your detailed reply,but I PM'd you over 3 months ago re:my query,sent a couple of reminders..and I'm still waiting for a response..I may be missing something but this seems quite a crucial point,and one that I can't imagine is too hard to answer for someone who knows the unit inside-out,as of course you do.

It would seem to imply that the compression is effecting saturation which,if correct,means a total re-think of how one approaches processing with it.

Please let me know.
Old 28th October 2010
  #13
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drew's Avatar
It's in Bypass.
Old 28th October 2010
  #14
But is it in "Bypass" or is it in "Mostly Bypass," "Thinking Man's Bypass" or "Skating Right Along The Edges of Bypass"?
Old 28th October 2010
  #15
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
It's in Bypass.
this is EXACTLY what i thought when i read the OP.
Old 28th October 2010
  #16
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanriffic View Post
I'm sure the OP appreciated your detailed reply,but I PM'd you over 3 months ago re:my query,sent a couple of reminders..and I'm still waiting for a response..

Holy crap, you're so right and I'm so sorry! I do this now and again, I drop conversations that are pm rather than email because my ticklers are all email & subject based.

I'm going into my room right now for part 2 of this thread, 'what's the deal with sat feeding compression.'

I will say this: almost everything I know about the guts of the Fatso, I know because it was what I was told. The inner workings of most of that box are a mystery to me because so much of it is microprocessor controlled, so the switching and routing is difficult to reverse engineer. That's why you don't see any 3rd party Distressors or Fatso's out there, Dave's a smart man on many levels. thumbsup

All of which is to say I wouldn't be surprised if things aren't as straightforward as they seem, it's a non-linear processor with a feedback design so everything is crazy interactive. I'll pay attention to what happens with the level lights in response to the sidechain, and I'll let you know what I find asap.

Thanks for being patient with me, I never set out to own a pro-aud business and sometimes my absent minded professor brain struggles to manage all the details.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 28th October 2010
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Wow, crazy! I didn't mean to start a war, but it's interesting to read these responses. I also found the UBK manual somewhere else on this board and read it the other day, so now I really feel like I understand what's going on more.

A few things, for the record:

1. I don't own a UBK Fatso - I just got a chance to play with one at someone else's studio. I kept turning up warmth thinking that it was something you just "dial in," NOT something that affects the way the compressor behaves.

2. I was using "Splat" more than the other modes (LOVE "Splat," especially on drums - it alone convinced me to pick one up!), so it makes sense that I really wasn't hearing the "warmth" effect much.

3. I was also really slamming the input, which according to the manual makes the warmth fade way up to the tip-top of the frequency range anyway. And using really dark material to begin with.
Old 28th October 2010
  #18
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fanriffic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Holy crap, you're so right and I'm so sorry! I do this now and again, I drop conversations that are pm rather than email because my ticklers are all email & subject based.

I'm going into my room right now for part 2 of this thread, 'what's the deal with sat feeding compression.'

I will say this: almost everything I know about the guts of the Fatso, I know because it was what I was told. The inner workings of most of that box are a mystery to me because so much of it is microprocessor controlled, so the switching and routing is difficult to reverse engineer. That's why you don't see any 3rd party Distressors or Fatso's out there, Dave's a smart man on many levels. thumbsup

All of which is to say I wouldn't be surprised if things aren't as straightforward as they seem, it's a non-linear processor with a feedback design so everything is crazy interactive. I'll pay attention to what happens with the level lights in response to the sidechain, and I'll let you know what I find asap.

Thanks for being patient with me, I never set out to own a pro-aud business and sometimes my absent minded professor brain struggles to manage all the details.


Gregory Scott - ubk

Thanks very much Greg..I'd appreciate that-I'm very interested to find out whats actually going on.

I hope I didn't come across too harsh...I know you're not the typical business man..which is why I weren't on your case too much!..anyway..no worries..Let me know.

Thanks,F
Old 28th October 2010
  #19
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Fascinating... initial results are that even applying warmth with no compression changes how the comfy light responds, that's not even beginning to touch the insert. I don't know how I've never noticed this before.

They're not simply indicating input level, that much is clear. Off to do more digging, I'm curious if they actually bear any relation to the Sat circuit's activity at all.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 29th October 2010
  #20
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fanriffic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Fascinating... initial results are that even applying warmth with no compression changes how the comfy light responds, that's not even beginning to touch the insert. I don't know how I've never noticed this before.

They're not simply indicating input level, that much is clear. Off to do more digging, I'm curious if they actually bear any relation to the Sat circuit's activity at all.


Gregory Scott - ubk

..veeeeerrry interesting..so the plot thickens!....

..(as,of course,does whatever you put through it..)...

Keep us posted.
Old 15th June 2014
  #21
Gear Head
 

...bump?
Old 10th August 2014
  #22
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Bump indeed. I've been playing with my new UBK fatso and I've also noticed the odd warmth meter behavior when applying sidechain control. Honestly I just wanted to know if this was normal or an indication that something was screwy with my unit. Sounds like maybe it's normal?
Old 11th August 2014
  #23
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Sparqee, can I ask what you're doing with the sidechain, and what effect you're seeing on the Warmth?

Thanks!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 11th August 2014
  #24
Lives for gear
 

I'm using the insert point on the Fatso to put a volume control (an old stereo preamp) on the side chain . I turn down the volume on the side chain so I see no compression. I set the Fatso input so that I see a healthy amount of activity on the warmth meter. I turn up the side chain volume and as I start to see the compression meter move I see the activity on the warmth meter drop off. I thought the warmth function came before the compressor and was therefore unaffected by compression. Am I wrong? I'm guessing I'm wrong.
Old 12th August 2014
  #25
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Here's a little video demonstrating the meter behavior:
Fatso warmth meter weirdness - YouTube
Old 12th August 2014
  #26
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparqee View Post
Here's a little video demonstrating the meter behavior:
Fatso warmth meter weirdness - YouTube
That's not weirdness. That less HF limiting happening because of the increase in compression.


Old 12th August 2014
  #27
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I see, so the compressor does come before the warmth circuit.. I don't know where I got the idea that it came after. Probably my misinterpretation of Greg's description of how to use the side chain insert to control compression. But..... now I don't really understand the point of the sidechain insert. If the compressor VCA comes before the warmth circuit then why is using the side chain volume any different than just using the Fatso input control. Looking at the diagram in the Fatso manual it looks like both the compressor and warmth circuit have feedback topography for the detector circuits and I've never quite grasp the intricacies of such circuits.

Oh well, back to just using my ears.
Old 12th August 2014
  #28
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparqee View Post
But..... now I don't really understand the point of the sidechain insert.
Turning down the sidechain allows you to compress less while still hitting the Sat and HF limiter hard.
Old 12th August 2014
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
Turning down the sidechain allows you to compress less while still hitting the Sat and HF limiter hard.
It seems so obvious when you put it that way. <slap forehead>

Thanks for your help and excellent explanation.
Old 13th August 2014
  #30
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparqee View Post
It seems so obvious when you put it that way. <slap forehead>

Thanks for your help and excellent explanation.
Glad to help!!
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