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What does an SSL 9000J room cost?
Old 8th July 2003
  #1
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jazzius's Avatar
 

What does an SSL 9000J room cost?

per day.....in the US.......London?

Whats the average?..........what's the cheapest you've heard of?

cheers........Jazzy
Old 8th July 2003
  #2
Gear Head
 

depends who you are and who you know.

700/ day and up
Old 8th July 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Roland's Avatar
In the uk its about £700.00 - £1800.00, but this will depend on who's hiring and who's paying.

A friend of mine who was very much in the know told me a couple of years back that the majors were running lists of "approved" SSL, Neve VR studio's. In order to be accepted you had to be prepared to accept the rate which I believe at the time was £800.00 from UK labels and around £1,000 a day for American labels. Possibly why the 9000 hasn't been so successful amongst UK music studios.

There are exceptions of course, studio's like Abbey Road no 1 and Air Lyndhurst are closer to £2,500 a day (give or take overtime and special requirements), but they get away with it as they are about the only places in Central London where you can record a full orchestra for scoring.

Regards


Roland
Old 9th July 2003
  #4
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Stateside/LA area $2,000 to $1,000 depending on size. I talked a studio manager down to $800 a couple months back when things were dead slow at that paticular studio (all my independent clients at the time could afford). Typically, $1,800 for the rooms I book. If I book long term (over a month), usually $1,500 a day.
Old 9th July 2003
  #5
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Robotnik's Avatar
 

Average would be $1000 and up. But, I've managed to get a 9096J room for $600. J prices will drop and studio rates will begin to reflect this. In a few years, it's going to be very difficult to sell a J for more then $100k...or any large-format analog console.
Old 9th July 2003
  #6
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

The cheapest I've heard of is free...in exchange for a favor or to pay someone with studio time.

In this market where there are 9 J desks in town, the current range for a J room **depending on the room and studio** is about 1000 to 2150 euros, ex-VAT, for a 14 hour lock-out. For a top-level room, it's going to be at least 1500 euros ex-VAT.

Last month, I needed a J room for a 3-day mix (mine isn't available until September at this time, except for July 13)...and couldn't find a room I wanted to work in for less than 1600 euros ex-VAT. Two of the rooms I checked were quoted at 2150 euros.

For orchestra scoring sessions, with the extra assistants and technical needs, you'd be looking at 1800-3000 euros per day, ex-VAT, depending on the studio.

Anyone in town this Sunday, July 13, I'll give you a deal. It's the only free day left this summer...

Old 9th July 2003
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Jack the Bear's Avatar
 

Here at Sing Sing there is a K-series and I think it goes for about approx $1000 USD but you may be able to get a better deal.

They recently had Kiss in here doing the 5.1 mixes of the live DVD wiht the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra.


SM is spot on in what he says about how fewer and fewer will be able to survive when ti comes to building high end facilities especially from scratch.

Sing Sings room cost them nearly 1.3.million USD.

Luckily they had the room within the building to expand.

Cheers,

Tony Mantz.
Glorified Tape Copy Boy and Audio Janitor.
Old 10th July 2003
  #8
Here for the gear
 
mrod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Ain't it the sad, sad truth.

The fact that some NYC rooms are reduced to renting a 9kJ for this kind of money is just insane.

The 'common 3-5 yr. lease nut' on this desk + the cost of maintaince and operation, cost of rent/mortgage and other standard overheads, ANYWHERE in NYC metro(Much less Manhattan itself) absolutely precludes this being a 'break even', much less profitable, proposistion for the studios.

Come on people. We're talking about a $500k MINIMUM initial investment here(For the desk as a stand alone item)..... And that's for a short loaded 'Little Guy'.

If this stuff continues....

It's curtains for everybody but the 'independantly wealthy' crowd.

And isn't that mostly who's left anyways?

What a mess.
I couldn't agree more... It's one of the reasons I finally left the music world for Post. I mean the rates you guys are quoting for a "lockout" is less than it costs to book one of the 'Feature' stages here at Sony Pictures FOR ONE DAMN HOUR!!!!! That's right a 'feature' stage here is anywhere from $1500 to $2000 per hour depending on the stage/crew (i.e. Mixer's).

It gets better... the "Union" workday (Local 700) is 10 hours (i.e. 9:00-7:00) with a one hour lunch. You have to stop for a meal every six hours or you are in 'meal penalty'. Additionally, eventhough the workday is 10 hours, you start paying overtime (time and a half) after 8 hours. If you go past 12 hours you are in "Golden Time" (double rate). Anything from 8:00pm to 1:00am has an added 10% night premium and anything after 1:00am has a 20% night premium. If you start the next workday less than 8 hours from the time you ended the previous workday (i.e. wrap at 2:00am, start at 9:00am) then you are in "Forced Call" and you start the day at the same rate as when you left (i.e. Golden Time @20% night premium) and you stay at that rate the whole day. If you work a 6th consecutive day (i.e. Saturday) that entire day is at "time and a half" (which could also be time and a half of "Forced Call" rate). If you work a 7th consecutive day (i.e. Sunday) that entire day is at "Golden Time" (which again could be "Golden Time" of "Forced Call" rate). If this day happens to also be a Holiday, then you paying Quad time PLUS Holiday. :-)

Now let's add this up... If the room is $2,000 per hour, then a Forced Call 7th day that is also a holiday would be $10,000 per hour (Quad time plus Holiday), so that ONE day on the dub stage would go for a minimum of $100,000. :-) :-)

The funny thing is this does happen. You would think that knowing how the overtime works that Producer's and Director's would try to avoid this (and they do) but if a last second picture change goes through, you have to redub the sound. Unlike a record release, which can and does get pushed back, once a date is set for a movie release, and the trailers have come out, the movie WILL COME OUT ON THAT DAY!

The sad part is that it doesn't cost that much more to build a 'feature' stage than a mix room. Hell a great tracking room with a 9000j probably costs more because of all the Mics you end up needing to buy. For the most part, most of the cost of a stage is in the console, probably a million or so, but even if the rest of it cost another million, you are looking at a two million dollar investment that could be easily recouped within 100 days (six months).

Regards,

mrod
Old 10th July 2003
  #9
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Push me first SM
Old 10th July 2003
  #10
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mixer's Avatar
 

most large studio rooms i know of are really going cheap...ssl rooms can be gotten for well under 800 a day minus engineering. same goes for neve and other big desk rooms..most people just hire them for tracking large sessions to pro tools and then take them home..equipment pricing will have to come down the profits no longer justify the pricing....its a shame...g.
Old 10th July 2003
  #11
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Push me first SM
heh heh heh
Old 10th July 2003
  #12
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
Wha-Hoo!!!

Bully for you, buddy.

Glad to hear it.

So much doom in the NYC metro studio scene it's nice to see some sunshine elsewhere.

My shop has had a stupid great year so far and it seems so uncommon here, I'm starting to feel guilty(or not believed), any time I risk saying so.

The rest of the time I keep waiting for the sky to fall.

Kinda nerve wracking, really.

Many happy returns Jon.

SM.
Thanks, SM. Same back to you buddy. Glad to hear you're having a good ride right now. It IS nerve wracking, even when times are good...wondering when your luck will turn.

July 13 is now booked.

It's weird to hear all the gloom. The big rooms in Paris are doing fine, though FAR from the dream film stage scenario a couple posts earlier!

Still, we need another SSL mix room. For the past 6 months I've spent zero time trying to book the studio but hours each day trying to squeeze clients' needs into the full schedule and calling competing studios to book their rooms for our clients who we don't have room for. Another room would spread the fixed costs around, generate more revenues, and simplify all the schedule juggling around our main room.

SM, I envy your multi-room setup...hope that schedule stays busy.

Jon
Old 10th July 2003
  #13
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by mixer
most large studio rooms i know of are really going cheap...ssl rooms can be gotten for well under 800 a day minus engineering. same goes for neve and other big desk rooms..most people just hire them for tracking large sessions to pro tools and then take them home..equipment pricing will have to come down the profits no longer justify the pricing....its a shame...g.
What area are you referring to and what kinds of SSLs...older E/Gs?

My experience is that most SSL J rooms are booked mostly for mixing, with a bit of tracking too. Maybe 80/20 or 90/10.
Old 4th August 2003
  #14
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman



Is his assessment/our expectations unreasonable?

Best to all.

Thanks for hearing me out.

SM.
200% reasonable. The human componet is all than can ( will?) allow large facilities to survive. Gear is all over... you can throw a rock in a city like NYC or LA and find a well equiped studio, but great staff, that is another story. it is a sad day when someone can be staffing at a facility like that and not want to know the console inside out.. this kid had a chane to make an ally for life with somone that not only has need of assistants and a good list of credentials, but also runs a largeish facility in the town where he lives and may one day need work and he flushed it because he wouldnt spend 2 days with a manual...dumbass!
Old 4th August 2003
  #15
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Bernd G's Avatar
 

Your sentiment is understandable and I think it is the owner who needed to hear what you have to say. I almost feel a bit sorry for the assistant who probably did not know what hit him and who was most likely working there for $ 6.50/hr like so many students who start out in this business.
Cheers
Old 4th August 2003
  #16
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Quote:
I almost feel a bit sorry for the assistant who probably did not know what hit him and who was most likely working there for $ 6.50/hr like so many students who start out in this business.
That is true..... and i have been in situations where i have seen assistants ripped to shreds. But unfortunately the reality of working in this business as far as i have seen and experienced it is that assistants are lucky people. Cos there are far more rewarding and financially viable employment options around than being a **** kicker assistant and working **** hours and geting paid little. But this industry like another that i used to work in (butchering) is still steeped in school of thought that you have to eat **** to get somewhere better, and its what i had to do so unfortunately the cycle will continue.

There are heaps of people wanting that job of an assistant and they should be thankful that they even have a job at that facility and they should do there best to not only remain there but be a valauble and cohesive part of the studio.... assistants are worth more than a rack of 1073's etc.. they can make **** happen like no other person if they are on the ball. I think the problem here was not the assistant per se` rather the studio manager or whoever made the call to put that person in that position.

AS Steve Smith made the call.... the human element of a studio is the true last bastion of 'Value adding' in this industry and if the assistant did not know what was what then unfortunately it was a problem which manifested inself into something larger.

People are a studio's assets.

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 4th August 2003
  #17
Gear Addict
 
Bernd G's Avatar
 

100% agree with you, Wiggy. In fact, I think that pretty soon and with the equipment becoming cheaper and more available, people and the experience they share will become the ONLY asset in the recording studio business. You are right, furthermore that the kids in the business need to be taught to live up to expectations and quality. Tuff sometimes if you have a schmuck of a studio owner who inherited the $$$ from daddy and gives more about real estate than running their studio business.
Cheers
Old 4th August 2003
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Jack the Bear's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
[B]That is true..... and i have been in situations where i have seen assistants ripped to shreds.
Nobody....I repeat NOBODY has ruined more assistants careers as Bob Ezrin.

And yes great people make a huge difference.

Cheers,

Tony Mantz.
Old 4th August 2003
  #19
"Anybody got any thoughts on this?

Is his assessment/our expectations unreasonable?"

TOTALLY NOT!

What a **** SANDWICH!



Still, back home now eh! On familier turf!

heh
Old 4th August 2003
  #20
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smoothmoniker's Avatar
 

I had an A2 nightmare at Mad Hatter Studios here in LA. Brilliant room, great sound, perfect for the little one day 13 piece string overdub session. Great engineer. Great players. Expensive room.

The night before the session, the a2 had brought in his own band to do an "off hours" demo in the A room. Ripped apart the cabling in the control room to patch in his "special gear". Showed up the next morning for my session with a hangover, took TWO HOURS of me paying a string session for him to get a headphone mix to the tracking room. For an indie budget to chew through 3 grand to get a headphone mix is absurd.

I wanted to kill the guy. I bitched as loud as I could to Mark, the studio manager. Did another session there 3 months later (don't know why, honestly. I don't learn), same a2 still working there.

-sm
Old 4th August 2003
  #21
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by smoothmoniker
I had an A2 nightmare at Mad Hatter Studios here in LA. Brilliant room, great sound, perfect for the little one day 13 piece string overdub session. Great engineer. Great players. Expensive room.

The night before the session, the a2 had brought in his own band to do an "off hours" demo in the A room. Ripped apart the cabling in the control room to patch in his "special gear". Showed up the next morning for my session with a hangover, took TWO HOURS of me paying a string session for him to get a headphone mix to the tracking room. For an indie budget to chew through 3 grand to get a headphone mix is absurd.

I wanted to kill the guy. I bitched as loud as I could to Mark, the studio manager. Did another session there 3 months later (don't know why, honestly. I don't learn), same a2 still working there.

-sm
Damn, why didn´t you insist on to subtract the two hours from your bill? In no way would I had accepted such. Never ever!
Old 4th August 2003
  #22
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blackcatdigi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
We specifically requested a CRACKERJACK SL9000J assistant, as I am not normally working on that particular desk in MIX. We were assured that the assistant was a '9k automation whiz'.

Anybody got any thoughts on this?

Is his assessment/our expectations unreasonable?
WOW...

I'm somewhat amazed the session continued after this discovery... This is right out of Unacceptable Business Practices 101.

I'd be absolutely FURIOUS...

IMHO, the Studio Mgr (at best) misrepresented the truth, or to put a finer, more-accurate point on it, flat-out lied!!! Deceptive and dishonest. Not a good way to do business.

I'd be pissed, I'd make sure they were aware of it, I'd want my money back plus a 'pound of flesh,' and I'd make darn sure to NEVER 'darken their doorstep' again...

But that's just me.
Old 5th August 2003
  #23
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Hey SM,

Truth be told, I find it better to stay the hell outta the CR during other folks' sessions, with few exceptions. That studio owner should have, too...or kept his mouth shut (all easier said than done, I can witness to that.)

I agree with the assistant problem. It's hard to find and train a really good one...takes time. Occasionally, we have a bad day as well...like 3 days ago we had a very green A2s in and didn't have all the mics in place, patched, and line-checked for the client when he arrived. It set him back 1-2 hours. Then, later that day, the headphone amp died and took out 3 headphones with it (argh...), another hour or so lost. The client only got 2 of the planned 4 drum n' bass tracks down that day.

When days like that happen, the least the studio can do IMHO, if they care about the client, is offer a free day or something commensurate to the downtime and expenses incurred.

Jon
Old 5th August 2003
  #24
I had an assistant problem, I called the studio manager (a skilled engineer himself) early the next morning, after listening to my complaint, he asked me what I wanted to hapen next, I said - "you do it" (the session assistant engineer gig) he did the right thing and stepped in that morning & afternoon untill a 'replacement' showed up.
Old 5th August 2003
  #25
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stealthbalance's Avatar
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jack the Bear
[B]Nobody....I repeat NOBODY has ruined more assistants careers as Bob Ezrin.


so true , so true ! except i was the engineer on the miserable album. i came so close to saying goodbye to record making forever solely due to him. thank God i hung in.
s
Old 7th August 2003
  #26
Gear Addict
 

What did they expect, that you just wanted to use the SSL as a really expensive D2B? Is that really a comon procedure? And I thought budgets were being clamped down.

Bear
Old 8th August 2003
  #27
Quote:
Originally posted by Gone Fission
What did they expect, that you just wanted to use the SSL as a really expensive D2B? Is that really a comon procedure? And I thought budgets were being clamped down.

Bear
The answer believe it or not is yes.

I've done this a couple of times, done the automation in PT and the summing/EQ'ing on a 9000J.

It saves tons of time, especially when you are mixing a song that was booked for just one day in the studio.
Old 8th August 2003
  #28
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

It's pretty unusual, but I see this now and again.

There was an album mixed here last month in 3 days using this procedure. The producer was very happy with the mixes using individual outs via AD8000s through the 9k (with outboard verbs, etc)...compared to the mixes they had done in the box.

Regarding the "expensive D2B" metaphor, there is more to it than the analog summing on the SSL, the number and quality of the converters, or the outboard verbs.

It's the environment, the room acoustics, the bigs, how the mixes translate.

Add a good engineer who knows how to kick it, and the result of the overall combination can be magic.
Old 13th October 2018
  #29
Gear Maniac
Just got this page as a search result. How about now? What would a J room with a decent tracking space run me, in a not NY, not London, not Tokyo type of market?
Old 13th October 2018
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxivity View Post
Just got this page as a search result. How about now? What would a J room with a decent tracking space run me, in a not NY, not London, not Tokyo type of market?
Much less. Last studio I rented with a 9000 was Pacifique in LA. It was way less than the prices above.
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