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Blackfire md 509 is it the same as the 409?
Old 6th September 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
Blackfire md 509 is it the same as the 409?

Hi is the Blackfire 509 the same as the 409??
I have read in different things on line some saying they
are identical and some saying they are very different.
thanks for the help,
David
Old 6th September 2010
  #2
Gear Maniac
anybody?????
Old 6th September 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 
DarkSky Media's Avatar
I own a pair of 409s, but have only had an opportunity to use a 509 once. On that occasion I concluded that the 509 was fairly similar in sound to the 409s, but not identical. I also have some 906s, and felt that the 509 was perhaps closer to the 906s than to the 409s.

Regardless, they are worth owning if they're in good condition.
Old 7th September 2010
  #4
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Blackfire md 509 is it the same as the 409?

I seem to remember Sennheiser making some changes to how the MD409 was manufactured as it was getting very expensive to make and the price it would have to be sold at would have killed it.

The BF509 would have been the same as the MD409 immediately before it.

The BF521 and BF541 were identical to the MD421 and MD441 other than they did nor have the roll-off switch and the 541 was all black in colour.



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Old 12th December 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media View Post
On that occasion I concluded that the 509 was fairly similar in sound to the 409s, but not identical.
Which is amazing considering they are the exact same mic in different colors...
Old 12th December 2010
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Lee Cardan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by McDingus View Post
Which is amazing considering they are the exact same mic in different colors...
You bumped a 4 month old topic to say that? nice..
Old 12th December 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Cardan View Post
You bumped a 4 month old topic to say that? nice..
Its always worth correcting wrong information.

Would you like me to elaborate?

Sennheiser had a deal restricting distribution of the MD409 and wanted to capitalize on selling the mics at music stores. They were originally only avaliable at proaudio distributors- not local music stores.

So they renamed the mic, made the lettering red and sold THE EXACT same mic as the BF509 to avoid their distribution contract.

Now are you more educated on the subject and satisfied to not be as ignorant about it?

I think its sad when someone claims to know the difference and there actually isn't one and I bumped the thread from google NOT from GS directly.

I want anyone searching for LEGIT information to be able to find that.

You bumped my post to add nothing and play Batman?

Exactly.

Its amazing that the poster had the mics side by side and couldn't tell they were the same- he must have had a defective or degraded mic...

Yeah- totally worth mentioning.

What do you possibly have to offer on the subject? Nothing? Gotcha... At least I know what Im talking about... But you will fit in great here!
Old 12th December 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Lee Cardan's Avatar
 

wow.. thumbsup
Old 12th December 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
 
DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDingus View Post
Its always worth correcting wrong information.

Would you like me to elaborate?

Sennheiser had a deal restricting distribution of the MD409 and wanted to capitalize on selling the mics at music stores. They were originally only avaliable at proaudio distributors- not local music stores.

So they renamed the mic, made the lettering red and sold THE EXACT same mic as the BF509 to avoid their distribution contract.

Now are you more educated on the subject and satisfied to not be as ignorant about it?

I think its sad when someone claims to know the difference and there actually isn't one and I bumped the thread from google NOT from GS directly.

I want anyone searching for LEGIT information to be able to find that.

You bumped my post to add nothing and play Batman?

Exactly.

Its amazing that the poster had the mics side by side and couldn't tell they were the same- he must have had a defective or degraded mic...

Yeah- totally worth mentioning.

What do you possibly have to offer on the subject? Nothing? Gotcha... At least I know what Im talking about... But you will fit in great here!
Classic troll dump.

I spoke from direct experience. They sounded about as similar as they looked. I doubt if any of the mics were defective, but I didn't pull them apart.

You've countered with urban myth (re-packaged as 'fact'), third-hand marketing BS - and a bucketload of bile.

I'm very happy for folk to draw their own conclusions at this point. stike
Old 12th December 2010
  #10
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Jamie Mac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media View Post
Classic troll dump.

I spoke from direct experience. They sounded about as similar as they looked. I doubt if any of the mics were defective, but I didn't pull them apart.

You've countered with urban myth (re-packaged as 'fact'), third-hand marketing BS - and a bucketload of bile.

I'm very happy for folk to draw their own conclusions at this point. stike
However, what he says is very true, not urban myth.. the Blackfire series was a consumer repackaging of the MD versions. They should be identical (apart from filters on the 441 and 421)
Old 12th December 2010
  #11
Lives for gear
 
DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
However, what he says is very true, not urban myth.. the Blackfire series was a consumer repackaging of the MD versions. They should be identical (apart from filters on the 441 and 421)
I've read that claim in a few places, Jamie.

I've also read comments from Robb Blumenreder of Sennheiser that indicate that different production/assembly processes were used for the BlackFire series of mics (to produce them at a different price point) - and from others saying that some of the matierials and parts were not the same.

Regardless, the 509 is a fine mic. But on the occasion I happened to have a 509 alongside other Senn mics, it sounded closer to the e906 than to the MD409 U3, so I said so. Not particularly what I expected to find, but hardly a big deal either, as the 906 is in any case pretty close to the 409.

Whatever... it is scarcely a basis for the blast of bile issuing above.
Old 25th August 2012
  #12
I know this is an old thread, but I am glad it is here because it clarifies what I suspected.

Someone is selling a couple of BF-509 for near $600 each, after all they are "very rare" and "this IS your chance", when I can get brandy spanking new MD-409 for $109 a pop.

So venom and bile be damned, I have other mics in my quiver I think will suffice...
Some of them, "ever so rare"lol!
Old 25th August 2012
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by pultech View Post
I know this is an old thread, but I am glad it is here because it clarifies what I suspected.

Someone is selling a couple of BF-509 for near $600 each, after all they are "very rare" and "this IS your chance", when I can get brandy spanking new MD-409 for $109 a pop.

So venom and bile be damned, I have other mics in my quiver I think will suffice...
Some of them, "ever so rare"lol!
409, or did you mean 609?
Old 25th August 2012
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
409, or did you mean 609?
I meant neither Matt!
Google "sennheiser BF 509" and see what interesting tidbits arise.

I thought I had seen nearly everything Sennheiser ever made, and it's true I have seen or heard of "nearly" most of it
Old 25th August 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pultech View Post
...when I can get brandy spanking new MD-409 for $109 a pop.
Really? Where exactly can you "get brandy spanking new MD-409 for $109 a pop"?

AFAIK the 409 has been long discontinued. And even when it was available new, it went for a fair bit more than $109.
Old 25th August 2012
  #16
Yeah, now that you mention it I think the 609 became the next incarnation yes?
Old 28th November 2012
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media View Post
I've also read comments from Robb Blumenreder of Sennheiser that indicate that different production/assembly processes were used for the BlackFire series of mics (to produce them at a different price point) - and from others saying that some of the matierials and parts were not the same.
1. you think Sennheiser wants to admit shady business practices to make more money? Waht they did could be EASILY taken to court by those with the distribution agreements.

2. You really think they retooled to release the BF509? And if they could have produced it at a lower price point sucessfully, then its very strange they openly state the mic was too expensive to manufacture.

3. I opened them up, side by side, and its the same exact mic. I also have numerous of each. If you heard any difference it was either a mic that was affected by age, degrading, misuse or not functioning at its original state.

Bile or no bile you are incorrect.

I understand your resentment of the poster who corrected you. Though I totally agree that misinformation should be countered so people can make better decisions.

You save a hundred easy if you buy a 509...

I also found this thread via google.
Old 26th October 2014
  #18
Here for the gear
 

Not the same mic

I just became member to share some information on the matter discussed here.
I have a BF 509 and a friend of mine has a MD-409. We did some test and put the two mics on an amp (the same position but symetric) and then recorded different parts of guitar (rhythm, solo, arpegios, low and high mid frequencies).
We came both at the conclusion that it is not the same mic, even if they are really closed. The low mid are a little more present, richer in the 409 recordings. We applied a low frequency bypass to listen to it more clearly
And my BF 509 is in a better shape than the MD 409 of my friend (we agreed on that too). So to me, the explanation is that it may have a little something different in the assemblage or in the material used (new supplier of any composant could change everything)...
Old 26th October 2014
  #19
Gear Head
 
pippi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matiduc View Post
I just became member to share some information on the matter discussed here.
I have a BF 509 and a friend of mine has a MD-409. We did some test and put the two mics on an amp (the same position but symetric) and then recorded different parts of guitar (rhythm, solo, arpegios, low and high mid frequencies).
We came both at the conclusion that it is not the same mic, even if they are really closed. The low mid are a little more present, richer in the 409 recordings. We applied a low frequency bypass to listen to it more clearly
And my BF 509 is in a better shape than the MD 409 of my friend (we agreed on that too). So to me, the explanation is that it may have a little something different in the assemblage or in the material used (new supplier of any composant could change everything)...

So you are saying your 20+ year old mics sound slightly different? LOL
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