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Besides the Peluso VTB, any mic under 1500 comparable to C800g?
Old 14th August 2010
  #1
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Besides the Peluso VTB, any mic under 1500 comparable to C800g?

Have any new mics been released since the Peluso VTB that are comparable to the c800g under 1500?
Old 14th August 2010
  #2
Don't think so. The Peluso VTB is a pretty hot little number.
Old 14th August 2010
  #3
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Yea I have heard some acapella samples of the VTB but I havent heard much about how the VTB sounds for vox when in the mix and how vocals sound stacked in the mix with it compared to the 800g

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian View Post
Don't think so. The Peluso VTB is a pretty hot little number.
Old 14th August 2010
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krush411 View Post
Yea I have heard some acapella samples of the VTB but I havent heard much about how the VTB sounds for vox when in the mix and how vocals sound stacked in the mix with it compared to the 800g
Check your pm.

Peace
Illumination
Old 15th August 2010
  #5
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So Peluso VTB and Akita are the frontrunners for this one? Nothing else under 1k it looks like. Also, havent seen much on the boards in the last 2 years regarding the VTB, has its 800g vibe cooled off or do you still feel its very comparable?
Old 15th August 2010
  #6
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CJ1973's Avatar
 

Spend a little money and try the Manley Ref Cardiod C. Maybe a second hand one.... they are very close to the Sony C800Gs....
Old 16th August 2010
  #7
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u b k's Avatar
 

Check out the Charter Oak 538. Presence for days.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 16th August 2010
  #8
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Anyone who thinks the Peluso VTB is even close to the same quality of a Sony 800g should contact me privately. I have some incredibly valuable real estate in Central Florida that can be had for a really good price.
Old 16th August 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert L. View Post
Anyone who thinks the Peluso VTB is even close to the same quality of a Sony 800g should contact me privately. I have some incredibly valuable real estate in Central Florida that can be had for a really good price.
I have gotten good results using the VTB, it can stand on its own. not for every project but is very usable
Old 16th August 2010
  #10
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For some reason this question seems to create a great deal of controversy and debate... having had the opportunity to compare the two side-by-side at great lengths of time on numerous vocals and other applications, I figured I would chime in.

How close is close? As far as I know the VTB is the only microphone that is attempting to perform like a C800g, specifically, and at a fraction of the price. Are they identical...? No. But, are they "close"? Well, based on the way that I define the word, YES, they are VERY close. When we compared the two microphones here, we did extensive tests on male and female vocals from a variety of genres, and a small handful of acoustic instruments. We tested in isolation, and then within the mix. They clearly do very similar things with regards to the more subtle transient and harmonic information, and are tuned in an almost identical way with regards to the "EQ" of each of those two mics.

In the sub 1500 price range, it will probably be the closest microphone out there to the Sony- to me close means the tonality/EQ of the mic. There are a lot of tests out there so you can hear for yourself, but we've done the tests here extensively. If you don't have $6k but want to be close to the sound of the C800g, this is a great bet.

I'm a huge fan of the Charter Oak 538 as well, but it's not as "close" to a C800g as the VTB. But, by close do you mean the tone/EQ of the microphone, or are you simply looking for something amazing to shine on a certain application?
Old 16th August 2010
  #11
Gear Nut
 

The link to the sales shop doesn't seem to work but I notice that the studio's equipment list doesn't have a Sony 800g while it has more Peluso stuff than crabs on a beach. Interesting that the two sales guys on this thread think its the answer to world peace while the two guys I've seen answer who I know as fellow engineers have both suggested something else
Old 16th August 2010
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krush411 View Post
So Peluso VTB and Akita are the frontrunners for this one? Nothing else under 1k it looks like. Also, havent seen much on the boards in the last 2 years regarding the VTB, has its 800g vibe cooled off or do you still feel its very comparable?
Thank you for mentioning the Akita.

Considering that we use the same low noise tube as the 800G, a genuine Sony transformer and a true hand built 6au6a based circuit, running high B+ voltage, our mic has the compression and action that the 800G is notorious for. The ADK TT capsule we install for this build offers just the right amount of low end body and extended top end to accomplish a sound that's definitely comparable to the 800G.

We think the Akita's a contender as well. As well we are currently manufacturing the steel body sleeve for the microphone here in the USA. Eventually more parts will be set up for machining here in the US.

It is indeed a new mic, so people are still becoming aware of it, however the Akita has already been in a shootout against the Sony C800G, by a reputable engineer with industry credits (mjdice) and the Akita was ruled a success.

Mjdice has also done a shootout pitting the VTB against the Sony C800G. Both of these shootouts can be found here on gearslutz in the shootout section.

The Akita as well is available for a fraction of the Sony C800G's price.

PS Ronnie Spector was recently tracked with a modded CAD Trion 8000 (with the stock capsule) that now has the same circuit as the Akita. To say the least she sounded incredible!

Peace
Illumination

Last edited by illacov; 16th August 2010 at 04:49 PM.. Reason: clarification
Old 16th August 2010
  #13
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i fell for that vtb trap. sounds nothing like our sony. shrill comes to mind when i think back. the manley ref gold (not cardiod) was pretty close and a bock 251 can get you in the ballpark but nothing sounds exactly like the sony. even used the korby w/ "sony" head- no dice. only heard clips of akita but i dont go by net clips- need to use it personally.

all these mics sound good their own right (sans the vtb) but different than sony.
Old 16th August 2010
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konkaos View Post
i fell for that vtb trap. sounds nothing like our sony. shrill comes to mind when i think back. the manley ref gold (not cardiod) was pretty close and a bock 251 can get you in the ballpark but nothing sounds exactly like the sony. even used the korby w/ "sony" head- no dice. only heard clips of akita but i dont go by net clips- need to use it personally.

all these mics sound good their own right (sans the vtb) but different than sony.
That's a very telling statement. Clips only get you so far, until you actually have a mic plugged into your chain of choice and you listen through your mains.

So far the Akita has done rather well, translating from net to studio and one thing I feel that is important when you try to design a product that does the 800G thing is to acknowledge the compression and huge proximity effect the 800G has. Without it, you're relying on something else to replicate that but its post microphone and the action is different. Since the tube is part of the compression in the 800G, the resulting signal passes through the transformer and therein lies the secret. The trafo in the 800G definitely has a tone to it and when you shoot some signal through it, I hear a bit of pleasing emphasis and possible saturation, that makes the 800G cut when driven by the vocalist.

Which is why we were fortunate to actually get a source for a genuine Sony output transformer that couples with the 800Gs circuit.

You definitely have a world class mic at your disposal with that 800G.

Peace
Illumination
Old 16th August 2010
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert L. View Post
The link to the sales shop doesn't seem to work but I notice that the studio's equipment list doesn't have a Sony 800g while it has more Peluso stuff than crabs on a beach. Interesting that the two sales guys on this thread think its the answer to world peace while the two guys I've seen answer who I know as fellow engineers have both suggested something else
I remember Sound Pure having a 800g for sale for a long time so I know they did have one at one time.

I'm local to Sound Pure and they have always been good to work with and I've felt they've always steered me in the right direction. When I needed a pair of SDC's I called them up and they had 4 mics setup at the same time to record my acoustic guitar I brought in and compare how they all sounded recorded. It probably took them an hour to set it up how they did and they spent an hour with me recording and listening. They have always been great to work with and I feel like they've done the work to be able make the statement they did...look at their website with all the videos and testing shows they've done the legwork to be able to chime in. Not all of the sales people on here are....
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian View Post
Don't think so. The Peluso VTB is a pretty hot little number.
unscrupulous
Old 16th August 2010
  #16
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

The VTB isn't a bad mic, and very C800G in terms of frequency response... The problem is that it doesn't have the same headroom. Especially, when you compare it directly to the C800-G. If you use that mic with this in mind, you can get pretty good results. I can get good results with either, but I understand if other people can't... it's harder with the VTB. Once you exceed it's headroom, the VTB will quickly sound like others have mentioned (shrill?). Prior to that, it should sound pretty damm good.

I owned a C800-G for more years than I can count, and am also a Sony dealer, so I hope that's transparent enough.
Old 25th August 2010
  #17
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We no longer own a Sony because we honestly didn't get enough requests for it to justify owning it, when we felt like the VTB accomplished what we wanted it to do. The one caveat to this statement is that if we need one, we can pull one out of inventory, and then be left with a "demo" unit. The Sony used below in the video we just made was pulled out of inventory just last week.

For most things that we use a Sony VTB and Peluso VTB for, we like the Peluso every bit as well. For a lot of people, the Sony C800g is their flagship microphone, and they need to use it on everything... there are good things that can be said about both the C800g and the VTB, and yes there are differences. But, for what we actually USE the microphones for (mostly hip-hop and R&B), for what we are looking to get out of the mics, the differences are quite small, and in the mix, difficult if not impossible to say one is definitely "better" than the other, and based on past blind tests that we have conducted, that would also be empirically true.

To my ear, I personally prefer the sound of a 251 (Telefunken or Peluso) for ballad work over the sound of a C800g/VTB so wouldn't use either on this particular setup as a first choice anyway, but, I thought this would be fun and useful for everyone:

We have setup this little poll:
Sony C800g vs. Peluso VTB Microphone Shootout -- Female Vocals


This is a C800g that was pulled out of our STOCK, last week, to conduct this test. This is also true of the VTB that we used. As the video states, they were not cherry picked, we could have easily found a VTB that was "closer" to the C800 with effort.

Please do check it out, comment, and vote, as I think that we will have enough experienced engineers on Gearslutz here to discuss the pro's and cons of each, blindly...

There is no reason to militantly call people out on here that actually have experience. I feel that I am as transparent as they come... we bought (paid for) every Peluso microphone in our locker, and yes, we have matched pairs of everything that they make- the best service we felt that we can do to our studio clients is offer them variety, and no we cannot afford literally everything out there, sorry. I don't believe that makes us disingenuous. I used to own a C800g, I don't anymore. We sell and stock both microphones, and have sold WAY more in pure dollar-value of Sony C800g's by about 10x.

That being said, our gear list isn't even remotely up to date, as we have about 30 more microphones than are on the list, and continue to add mics, more Telefunkens, Charter Oaks, Josephsons, in the last couple of months alone.

Albert, before we release the results, please do tell us what you think on the actual shootout... while it remains blind. I'd love to hear not only what you think is which, but why and what you like/don't like about each.

I will attach the video here, so you know what we are getting into... please feel to post here about this thread-topic, but also get involved in that poll and thread, again, it is:
Sony C800g vs. Peluso VTB Microphone Shootout -- Female Vocals


Here it is:
Old 25th August 2010
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman360 View Post
She has a GREAT voice!

However, it is painfully obvious that in setup 1
Mic A = Sony C800-G
Mic B = Peluso VTB

Setup 2
Mic A = Sony C800-G
Mic B = Peluso VTB

Setup 3 (this was harder)
Mic A = Peluso VTB
Mic B = Sony C800-G

The difference is like night and day...The Sony has depth and soul to it, almost a 3D quality, whereas the Peluso sounds 2 dimensional and smaller.


+1



btw,

WTF is going on with GS??

Jules or any mod.. can we LIMIT the amount of fvcking dealers chiming in every time theres a potential sale to be made?

Its turning ****tier by the post. People dont give opinions based on their actual preference, only on how quick that possible dfegad buck is.
Old 25th August 2010
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpuretodd View Post
I will attach the video here, so you know what we are getting into...
A video is not a good way to evaluate things in an A/B comparison... Just post the audio files in that thread.
Old 25th August 2010
  #20
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soundpuretodd's Avatar
 

Guys, if you would, PLEASE hop over to the thread located here, and make your comments there:

Sony C800g vs. Peluso VTB Microphone Shootout -- Female Vocals

At Tony Belmont- sorry you feel this way, no one else has complained (yet). I don't think that Gearslutz will allow us to take the 6 minute 88.2k 24-bit file up, and we don't have the ability to host this on our own site just yet. Point is, I've got the video, I don't have a way to post the audio files... that is until youtube starts hosting 100-meg audio clips.

If you watch the video in HD, you will get youtube's best audio resolution... whatever you do, don't try to watch it at 240p or whatever, the sound is terrible.
Old 25th August 2010
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
+1



btw,

WTF is going on with GS??

Jules or any mod.. can we LIMIT the amount of fvcking dealers chiming in every time theres a potential sale to be made?

Its turning ****tier by the post. People dont give opinions based on their actual preference, only on how quick that possible dfegad buck is.

We are also a dealer, and the one that posted the video and created the actual video/shootout... we are trying to add value by actually providing real-world context to the question posed... given that our "salespeople" are also real-world audio engineers, and use both of these microphones in their professional experience. And, we have a real recording studio, and create loads of sound-clips and audio examples as part of what we do professionally, on a daily basis.

Anyhow, hopefully you weren't referring to us... but, who knows? I'm pretty new to posting anything to GS, and there seems to be great hatred to anyone that sells audio gear, even the ones that know what's going on.

We ONLY give our opinions based on real use of the gear.

Anyhow, please cast your vote about the shootout over on the poll/shootout forum... and stay tuned... the results will surprise some of you, and some of you will have it right on.
Old 25th August 2010
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpuretodd View Post
At Tony Belmont- sorry you feel this way, no one else has complained (yet). I don't think that Gearslutz will allow us to take the 6 minute 88.2k 24-bit file up, and we don't have the ability to host this on our own site just yet. Point is, I've got the video, I don't have a way to post the audio files... that is until youtube starts hosting 100-meg audio clips.
Posting 20 seconds of mic A and 20 seconds of mic B as WAV files will not remotely tax the GS server. Each WAV can be a maximum of 7.91 MB for uploading on our servers, and would be a MUCH better way to evaluate what was done by whoever did the recording.
Old 25th August 2010
  #23
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That sounds reasonable... I will see about getting them bounced at some point reasonably soon, and before the poll closes... Unfortunately, the studio is booked solid through Friday, and the session may roll over until Saturday. But, no matter what, I can't get the longer clips bounced with that threshold without compressing them... so, it would have to just be the shorter segments (dry, unmixed).
Old 27th August 2010
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert L. View Post
Anyone who thinks the Peluso VTB is even close to the same quality of a Sony 800g should contact me privately. I have some incredibly valuable real estate in Central Florida that can be had for a really good price.
Since you made this comment, I'm very much hoping that we get your participation and commentary in the poll forum (before it closes)... it's not going to be as fun to hear what you have to say when the results are released.

I believe that both are great mics, and that there are differences, differences that I can live with, even though in our stable of mics there are more numerous mics that cost at least as much as the C800g. But, curious to hear what you think in the blind shootout since you believe the Peluso is so much qualitatively worse...
Old 27th August 2010
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krush411 View Post
Have any new mics been released since the Peluso VTB that are comparable to the c800g under 1500?
the answer is a resounding NO.

but, in your search for value if you happen to find an A+ vegas escort for the price of a back alley blowjob, please do let me know!
Old 28th August 2010
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpuretodd View Post
....I'm a huge fan of the Charter Oak 538 as well, but it's not as "close" to a C800g as the VTB. ...
I don't know about the 538, but setting my 538b two clicks towards fig 8 does cut a lot of midrange, which could make it lean more towards C800g territory. In fact, many multi-pattern mics display a very C800g-like response graph when in omni or fig 8 mode. Come to think of it, the new Neumann TLM102 has a response graph very similar to the c800g, with the same little dip at 5k before the big 10k spike. Perhaps running the 102 through a gnarly preamp would come close, although I wouldn't want to emulate the spitty sibilance I heard in the VTB/c800g shootout.
Old 28th August 2010
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latestflavor View Post
the answer is a resounding NO.
We would love to have your commentary with regards to the blind shootout. I strongly disagree that there aren't remarkable things happening in the sub-$2,000 and even sub $1,500 price categories these days. A lot has changed in this regard over the last 10 years or so. It really means that a well-diversified mic collection is attainable for the price of one C800g, and there are some amazing things out there by guys like Peluso, CharterOak, Telefunken, etc. in these price ranges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
I don't know about the 538, but setting my 538b two clicks towards fig 8 does cut a lot of midrange, which could make it lean more towards C800g territory. In fact, many multi-pattern mics display a very C800g-like response graph when in omni or fig 8 mode.
Thanks for checking out the video, we would love to get your comments and poll vote over there on the shootout thread before the poll closes tomorrow.

Obviously, as I'm sure you would agree, response curves are just one aspect of the animal. Agree completely that polar patterns are one way to "open-up" some microphones, but then it's not really comparing apples-to-apples. The biggest issue is that a lot of our clients who are looking for $1500 alternatives to $8000 mics are indeed very serious about their sound, but not necessarily working in million-dollar studios with world-class acoustic environments. Cardioid-pattern is a necessary evil for many of them. Although if they do own a multipattern mic like a SA538, and their room acoustics aren't fabulous, an SE reflection filter (or at least some kind of absorption behind the microphone) and figure 8 pattern can sometimes come off even less roomy in certain vocal ranges, and of course, depending on the room. It's certainly worth a try, and I think it's good to thing to explore other patterns on a microphone, as it isn't just polar patterns a lot of the time that changes.

I honestly feel that both the 538 and 538 b are truly fantastic microphones in their own right, though neither is designed to be like a C800g despite each of them sharing some similarities with the legendary Sony. Of the two, I think that the 538 might actually be a little closer with regards to the "brightness" area of the 800, but the 538b has a bit more top end "air" like the C800g. Both the top end and brightness of the C800g tends to be what people are trying to capture... The standard 538 has a great midrange character and mojo to it that doesn't exist on the "b" model, and while that's one thing I love about the 538, this is not characteristic of a C800g. So in this regard, the "smoothness" on the midrange on the 538b is more like the C800g. Anyway, both great mics, both quite different from one another, and both very much worth owning... but, IMO, neither is quite as good of a substitute to the C800g as the VTB is. But regarding your point about sibilance, the C800g is not the mic for everyone... I imagine on Jeanne's voice, the SA538b would have been a better choice than the C800g or the VTB, though sadly we didn't try either of those on the extensive mic shootout that we did for her this time.

Hate to derail the thread too much, but you may find this comparison between the the Charter Oak mics interesting (if you haven't yet seen it), while we are on the subject of shootouts:

Old 28th August 2010
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
+1



btw,

WTF is going on with GS??

Jules or any mod.. can we LIMIT the amount of fvcking dealers chiming in every time theres a potential sale to be made?

Its turning ****tier by the post. People dont give opinions based on their actual preference, only on how quick that possible dfegad buck is.

I totally agree.
Old 29th August 2010
  #29
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpuretodd View Post
Since you made this comment, I'm very much hoping that we get your participation and commentary in the poll forum (before it closes)... it's not going to be as fun to hear what you have to say when the results are released.

I believe that both are great mics, and that there are differences, differences that I can live with, even though in our stable of mics there are more numerous mics that cost at least as much as the C800g. But, curious to hear what you think in the blind shootout since you believe the Peluso is so much qualitatively worse...
thank you for taking time out and and doing a comparison, its an eye opener.
Old 29th August 2010
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpuretodd View Post
We would love to have your commentary with regards to the blind shootout.
not sure what to say the high end grit is unmistakable to me. the sizzle isn't as egregious as say the peluso junk but its still there. stacks and headroom are very important.

are they good mics for the price? i have no idea, but honestly this doesn't seem like much different than what manley has been doing for a while.
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