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What about surround?
Old 12th August 2002
  #1
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mwagener's Avatar
What about surround?

How many of you are mixing/recording in surround yuktyy Is it going to stay? I am starting a surround project, from the ground up, in September, a first for me. Any tips?
Old 12th August 2002
  #2
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
ARE YOU USING THE MONITOR SECTION IN THE SONY DMX??
Old 13th August 2002
  #3
We set up a genelec 5.1 set up at The Library, it worked fine, the Pro Control worked perfectly.. 360 panning within Pro Tools and one volume knob controlled all six speakers...Fun!

NONE of my music clients have budget for 5.1 - No way! M-Mmm No sir!

However it's perfectly possible that we might get a film or advertizing client to use it sometime within the next year... If so we would rent in the Genelec's and a volume meter.. and have to spend a day 'setting it back up' although we saved a template from out test session.

Old 13th August 2002
  #4
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Mike

yes, I'm using the monitor section in the DMX.

Maybe I should clarifiy my question a little: I'm looking for ideas and tips for the recording part of the project, I think I got the mix setup under control.
Old 13th August 2002
  #5
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

think you got the mix part under control? better get altiverb running in quad first woo hoo, i bet it will sound incredible.

ive been tinkering with "other" mics now recording with the sole purpose of using them in a surround mix situation. mostly ambient type stuff that will just move the soundstage out.

but alas i cannot afford to plummet into a full on ADAM surround system.... i am buying the best sounding el cheapo surround system i can buy. i wonder what the blue sky 5.1 system costs.
Old 13th August 2002
  #6
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Fletcher's Avatar
I've only done a couple of 'surround' mixes... and frankly, they were fun to do, but I had no where to reference them to the "real world" other than bringing them to a HiFi shop and pretended to be shopping for a 'surround system'.

The mixes translated OK... but frankly not as well as they did in the CR.

I see two major impediments to "surround" catching on with the general public [rich folks "home theaters" not included]... those impediments are my wife, and my brother in law.

My wife wouldn't let that many speakers in the house, and there is no way in hell my brother in law could hook up 6 speakers in correct polarity, never mind defining "the sweet spot".

Chuck Ainlay has a great line about surround... it goes something like "now they can put one speaker in every room of the 'double wide'... and the sub in the ****ter"
Old 13th August 2002
  #7
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I think I've been to Fletcher's brother in laws house...heh

Michael,

For a solo instrument funky "real" pan scenario you could mount 4 mics to a hula hoop facing in and move it around "center." This was something that Zappa did on his Yellow Shark surround performances and truly kicked ass. This worked wonderfully for horns and other single source instruments.
I imagine having mics in the corners at all times would help in some instances too.

AJ you alive?
Old 14th August 2002
  #8
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Fibes
AJ you alive?
hell no daddy-o, my wife shot me after saturday night. good thing i was drinking.
Old 14th August 2002
  #9
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Yeah I was so drunk I didn't notice either.

Michael,

You must get a Spacephone, if you don't have one already.
Old 14th August 2002
  #10
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mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Fibes
YMichael,

You must get a Spacephone, if you don't have one already.
Sounds interesting, what is it?
Old 14th August 2002
  #11
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by mwagener


Sounds interesting, what is it?
tin cups attached to a slinky. the ultimate in high end reproduction.
Old 14th August 2002
  #12
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TinderArts's Avatar
 

I've been lucky to do about a dozen DVDs in the past couple of years. They've all been live performances, and I think surround really shines for that. I try to carture the feel of the venue. I keep most of the music towards the front because I'm dealing with picture and it feels odd to have vocals come from the rear when you se them in front of you. For DVD Audio, that would change.

The center channel comes in really handy. On one product, an acoustic jazz group, I put the top snare mic primarily in the front L&R and the bottom snare mic primarily in the center channel. The ghost notes came through like I've never heard before.

It's all pretty new stuff, and approaches are quite different between mixers. Sorta like when stereo was new.

If anyone has time and gear to play with surround, do so, you'll enjoy it.
Old 15th August 2002
  #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by mwagener
...Maybe I should clarifiy my question a little: I'm looking for ideas and tips for the recording part of the project, I think I got the mix setup under control.
Michael,

As you know, we did our first (and so far only) ground up 5.1 project this year, so I'm still pretty green. But here's my 2-bit blather: The first 6 of the Sony's MTR's will be used in monitoring. Since we were composing the music, most of the stuff we recorded didn't need more than 2 channels at a time (MTR 7&8, always used as the record input channels in DP3). This gave use the luxury of being able to track while monitoring in surround rollz But you have two Sonys, so that probably won't even be an issue for you. Of coarse, if you can track in surround, you can use the 6000 or your Kurzweil as a General surround reverb (create-a-space!), although it will suck if you have to turn it off to use it for something else. Tracking in surround will definitely change the way one makes it sound, but imho, for the better, and it will be more fun.

When it came time for mixing, I hated dealing with most of the stuff I had recorded in stereo, but loved every mono track. I didn't do any 4 channel or binaural recording, but I will on the next one. Man, I gotta get Altiverb too.

(imo) Always track with bass management on (80Hz.), with the sub, even though with your speakers you don't need a sub I got a M&K LFE4 that I love real hard. It's balanced, sounds great, does everything, set it and forget it, inexpensive...

The LFE channel sucks for music, shouldn't even be there imo, but many producers require you to put something in there, so Homer Simpson doesn't think it's broken and return it dfegad

Whoh, I just thought of something, are you even going to record the project at WireWorld?
Old 15th August 2002
  #14
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk

tin cups attached to a slinky. the ultimate in high end reproduction.

I think I saw a DIY project for this in TapeOp...
Old 15th August 2002
  #15
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Fibes
Yeah I was so drunk I didn't notice either.

Michael,

You must get a Spacephone, if you don't have one already.
Ahhh...Spacephone! I thought I was the only one who loved this thing.

http://www.goldenspiral.com/space-ph...acePhones.html

-Moze
Old 15th August 2002
  #16
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Thanx everybody for all the useful info

Randy

yes, most of the project is going to be recorded at WireWorld. There might be some orchestra dates, which we have to record somewhere else, I doubt that I can fit over 50 people with instruments in my 12' X 22' room (maybe if we get rid of the harp and the piano) heh Also, I might want to leave the actual recording of the orchestra to people who do it for a living and just add my surround stuff to it.

Using the Sony MTR outs for the surround mix is not a problem, because I can go direct out of the channels in the console or straight from the mic pres into the Euphonix A/M converters. I am using the LFE-4 and a M&K 5410 sub with the ADAMS for the surround setup.

Great tip about the stereo/mono tracking. I'm planing on using the Neuman binaural head and/or the Soundfield microphone for some of the ambient stuff, which for sure will give me a problem with track count (72 max at this time). But i guess it's mainly going to be used on drums and some special tracks. Other than that, the M6000 and KSP-8 will have to do the job during mixing.

It's a whole new thing for me, makes it interesting. On this one I can't even label the board before the band comes in heh
Old 16th August 2002
  #17
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:eek: 50 pc. Orchestra! What band gets that kind of buget nowdays? Must be someone we've heard of heh


So what do ya suppose the harp player makes on a gig like that?

More than the band?

So Michael, have you been able to do any actual surround mixes on the S3A's yet?
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