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So how would you describe 3D in mixing? Dual-Channel Preamps
Old 27th April 2010
  #31
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T_R_S's Avatar
So how would you describe 3D in mixing?

Something mixed in 5.1
Old 27th April 2010
  #32
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticRecording View Post
Are we heading to the fifth dimension yet? lol. sorry, could not resist...correct me if i'm wrong, i think that the madonna album had some q sound or spatializer used on the mixes. I agree, with slikj-much of the dimensionality in a mix has to do with how it was tracked. I think if the tracking was pooched than the mixing stage has less of a chance of that elusive "walk around in my mix" feel to it.

I know when i've nailed a mix, when i stand up over the monitors and can literally "see" where each instrument/element is placed in a spherical sound field.
So in a perfect world, we master all of these elements and pull off not only an excellent recording but hopefully one that satisfies the "booty shakin'" needs of the listener. haha.
feel free to
or booty shake if necessary
Nathan.
nailed that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quint View Post
I totally agree. You don't need every element to announce it's presence every second of a song. It really is amazing how arrangement and/or proper mixing can really allow different elements to poke through at different moments. Your mind remembers those moments and incorporates that sense of space throughout the song even if you're not hearing them %100 of the time.
Look how complex it can get.
That's a great technique for when the mix gets dense. Sparse mixes have lots of room sonically, sometimes the 3D is when you make the sound envelope the listener.
Old 27th April 2010
  #33
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

3D in mixing? placing sounds from front to rear
since i got a real desk it became easy, digital i was lost at this
it´s strange how background sounds are still there, although they are very low
it´s so strange how reverbs work now, i love it
i´m very happy now and i feel that i lost some years walking the false path, well, better now than never, but i won´t like to turn the discussion to another topic by this, sorry
3D you can archive by delays, reverbs, recording techniques and espacially sounds in the background which you don´t really hear, but when you mute them, the mix looses a lot of depth
Old 28th April 2010
  #34
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I think a big factor is good stereo miking technique, and a good set of stereo mics. I've used all kinds of tricks over the years while mixing, but nothing seems to work quite as well as capturing that dimension in the sound in the first place. Big fan of Schoeps mics for stereo work, but there are a lot of good mics out there.

I also recently got in a Holophone, still putting it through its paces but mixing in the L/R and surround mic elements to stereo (it's a 5.1 mic) definitely gives an enveloping quality to the sounds tracked with it, very nice...

Lately I am starting to use a few add binaural (well, with the Holophone, quasi-binaural) tracks in all my mixes as a matter of fact.

I like what Joeq is saying too... very good advice. Sometimes it's the subtle details that poke out through the masking- any loss of detail, smearing of transients, phase issues etc are all going to affect the dimensionality of a mix.
Old 28th April 2010
  #35
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Track to a high end, multi-track tape deck, (MCI, Stephens etc). Use good mics and a great room.

Listen to the album Off The Wall on vinyl.

No all digital recording, especially itb sounds even close to this album.

Use ribbon mics on the rhythm instruments like Bruce did.

Don't let the digital bastards drag you down, don't believe the marketing and hype, that's all it is. I don't care what the resolution is, it still isn't continuous. Last time I checked most sounds in the real world are continuous, not a bunch of samples. I know this get's old but I'm not going to stop saying it until more people know and admit the truth. Just listen to all analog albums and then digitally recorded albums, judge for yourself. If you can't tell the difference then do what's cheapest/easiest for your needs.
Old 18th June 2010
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tharemedy View Post
To me 3D in mixing was better understood by hearing 2D mixes. 2D mixes can be described as where each element of a mix(instruments/etc) is a flat plane like a piece of paper or cardboard. The 2D mix as a whole would be those flat planes stacked on top of each other. There is no real sense of depth. 3D mixes I would describe as each element being a sphere or any other 3 dimensional geometric shape. Those shapes are arranged in 3D space to make the complete mix.
This thread is over a month old but plagiarized posts shouldn't go un-noticed when this was clearly the theory developed from the hard work and dedication of David Gibson.
Old 19th June 2010
  #37
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Teddy Ray's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Hughes View Post
Give me the superior fidelity and tightness of a CLA mix any day of the week over an old Pink Floyd.



Jesus... I dont like those bands, but sonically they wipe the floor with anything the Alge brothers have ever done.
Old 19th June 2010
  #38
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Who gives a "F" if you like a particular song/album/CD/artist/band/mixer. The point of the examples given is so that you can hear a 3D mix (if your speakers are setup right in that space playing that example). If you can hear a sound source behind your head or above your head or down by your feet or outside the physical left - right placement of your speakers then you are hearing a 3D mix. The examples given will also help you tune your room and find the best speaker position for best imaging. Additionally do a search here on LEDR testing. Lastly, 3D imaging coming out of a speaker is not so much to do with how much a speaker costs but everything to do with it's location and interaction with the space its in. I'm getting great 3D imaging from a pair of KLH 970A's ($24 at Best Buy for the pair)(my computer setup - not in the studio) though a lot of speakers including these don't handle "down" imaging well if at all.
Old 29th May 2015
  #39
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for me 3D in the mix can have 3 definitions - they both apply to basic 2 speaker stereo setup or headphones - you dont need more than 2 speakers to experience both...

1) when you can "sit" in the spherical sound field with instruments playing from various angles - not limited to typical left/right, but also front/back, up/down verticaly - you are sitting in the centre (headphones) or in front of (speakers) a sound sphere with 3 axis... this should be used in musical and emotional way not just as a fancy widening/deepening effect... i think bands like Pink Floyd used it properly... but in 80s/90s with invent of some stereo spatializers and stereo enhancers... it become used as a gimmick with no artistic intention, an afterthought... just to make Compact Disc sound "interesting" in the 80s

2) when you dont necesarilly discern every individual instrument yet the musical piece creates an abstract THREE DIMENSIONAL world that is pleasing and draws the listener into a unique world of the record... creating a 360° universe occupied by the music - you are surrounded by the sound (with no specific instrument localisation but an entire coherent musical universe)... especially nice with HEADPHONES... you can surrender and be transported into an imaginary space build up of sounds... again Pink Floyd comes to mind, but also Fleet Foxes with their lush reverb productions, Blade Runner score by Vangelis (probably one of first Lexicon 224 drenched albums in the world)...

3) probably not a ussual definition... but for me sometimes analog mixes (especially late 70's / 80's records) can have a certain "plasticity" that makes them "jump out of speakers" and be "more present", "alive", "energized" than todays ITB and radio pop music... the 3D in this context probably means that they have more body and ooomph and punch... individual instruments are more defined as well as the mix is more tight and "heavy", "solid"... but that also may be placebo because its music of my teen age so iam more tuned to it... but it may very well have something to do with MAGNETIC MULTI-TRACK TAPE, OLD SCHOOL CONSOLES, ANALOG SYNTHS, VINTAGE OUTBOARD GEAR - little by little these add up and the final master just sounded awesome (given the artists in the studio were hitmakers of course - there was tons of **** recorded in 70, 80s too)

for me 3D in the mix is mostly combination of 1) and 2) used in meaningfull, artistic and emotional way to support the feeling of the music... not just as a "3d gimmick" - "look ma, the guitar is playing from the corner and the drummer is behind me... awesome"

all this is talking about 2 speaker setup or headphones... i think 2% of worlds population ever listen to music on more than 2 speaker (stereo) systems (if you exclude cinema going were multi-speaker systems are ubiquitous)...

i listened to the Immaculate Collection by Madonna - Material Girl and thats and example of definition 1)... but i think in this case it sounds a bit gimmicky... and afterthought... to make it interesting... it doesnt really add to the experience other than the "cheap widening" 3d effect... iam not sure but id say the original mix didnt have this or did it ? i like Madonna but in this case the song doesnt really gain much from the "3d effect"... compare it to these:

Fleet Foxes - Montezuma (definition 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdN2bfov9JQ

Pink Floyd - Speak To Me / Breathe (definition 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLOth-BuCNY

Dire Straits - Calling Elvis (nice ambience in the song thats draws you in - really good on big speakers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUavFsfbFv8

Last edited by mizpulyn; 29th May 2015 at 05:42 AM..
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