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Rolling Stones Observation/Hollow Boby Question.
Old 9th November 2005
  #1
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Rolling Stones Observation/Hollow Boby Question.

I saw the Stones tonight, I'm not a big Stones fan but Mick blew me away. He is the ultimate rock star.

Keith played this hollow body 335 type guitar half the night. Question is:

I've never owned a hollow body guitar but I was wondering how you slutz use them in recording modern music?
What amp?
What applications?
And for what reasons and effects?
What do they do that solid bodies don't?
How are they mixed?

Mick is amazing!!! He made me want to get out of the studio and hit the stage again.
Old 9th November 2005
  #2
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covert's Avatar
 

Just a note. The 335 is a semi hollow guitar, not hollow. This means there's a solid block through the body, under the strings. It significantly reduces feedback, and adds sustain.
Old 9th November 2005
  #3
Without a doubt a good semi-hollow guitar will rock your world. There is just something about how the sound sort of springs off the guitar. Think Uncle Ted, great tones. The tone to me can be someplace in the middle between the spank of a Strat and the drive of a Paul.

Feedback can be an issue but if you have the amp isolated or you are doing a reamp session that is not a problem.

Semi-hollow body guitars have a certain midrange thing to them that just works and if someone tells you it is only good for blues or jazz think again. A good semi with a cranked Marshall or even a rectum-fryer is a thing of beauty (actually this is one of the few times I like a Mesa Boogie 3rec cranked).

I can't say enough about a semi, really a great tool to have in the bag of tricks, as with all tools it does not work with everything but it does come in handy. It is also cool to see the looks on the faces of the kids when you pull one out…. then to see the look when they hear the tone…..
Old 9th November 2005
  #4
Saw some good footage of The Beatles recording "Cold Turkey" with Lennon playing the gritty, bending, double note riffing lead on.. a 335 - it was amazing sounding.

Chewy? Springy? Like a rubber band?

They always looked 'middle aged' to me , but after seing that footage my opinion changed - at least on the tone they were capable of...
Old 9th November 2005
  #5
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Naturally a bit mid-rangy...but there is no feedback concerns with 335 types in the least...Just a great versatile tone to have available for anything.

As someone mentioned, they have a sold block running down the center...but they are the most difficult of all electric guitars to do electronic repairs on...ALL of the electronics come and go via the F holes...sans pickups which sit in the mounting ring over the block.
Old 9th November 2005
  #6
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I played a '66 ES-330 for a long time (one guitar I never should have parted with). It's like an Epiphone Casino (as played by John Lennon), hollow body and P-90s. Great recording guitar (I sold it to Garth Porter, one of the top country producers in Australia, and he simply loves it in the studio). Very unique sound, and sure it will feed back if you walk the guitar up to the amp and open her up, but under controlled recording situations it has bite plus a nice midrange that the 335 doesn't have. A Gretsch 6120 or similar hollow body with FilterTrons would be my second choice for a hollow body electric for modern music.
Old 9th November 2005
  #7
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Clapton used a 335 in Cream, need we say more?

He had used it also in some blues cd's he came out recently. Too bad it was not used in the Cream Reunion concerts. Strats are too thin for Cream's music.

Clean channel is alwasy great on a good tube amp.

On my Fender Twin I put the gain on the disortion channel on 5 for lead and 3 for rthy. Blue Blueberry in front of the amp as well as my EV 257 dynamice mic, and I blend the two together. Neve Portico preamp is used.
Old 9th November 2005
  #8
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The Carvin Fatboy is such a great sounding and playing guitar; but damn, this guitar didn't just get hit with the ugly stick, it is the ugly stick.

http://www.carvin.com/products/guitar.php?ItemNumber=H2

If I didn't care about looks, I'd own this guitar.

A 335 has such a nice grumble/rumble tone. I once tracked with one of those Asia-era Steve Howe 335's with no f-holes and it was super-cool. Not very retro looking, but sounded great.

And of course, Gretsch makes lovely hollow guitars!

Also, Danelectro Poplar and Masonite guitars and basses are basically hollow or semi-hollow; which I think is a huge part of their cool tone; that and the popsicle-stick!

It's complicated to describe the benefits and characteristics of a hollow or semi-hollow guitar. But if you get your hands on one, you'll get it immediately.

Don't get me started on semi-hollow basses! How about Jack Casady? Those things are cool and have amazing tone!

http://www.casadybass.com/
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Old 9th November 2005
  #9
JTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Without a doubt a good semi-hollow guitar will rock your world. There is just something about how the sound sort of springs off the guitar. Think Uncle Ted, great tones. .
If you're referrring to Mr. Nugent, he usually used a fully hollow, not semi-hollow, guitar -

the short scale Gibson Brydland


p.s.

James - you need to add another 'o' to your thread title - guess which word.

Over to you, Ruphus.

heh
Old 9th November 2005
  #10
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Used to play a 335 and a 70's Epiphone Emperor (their Super 400) quite a bit. Both through A blackface Twin Rev, 59 Bassman, and 71 Hiwatt (ampslut here). The 335 never had a problem with feedback unless you wanted it to. I often did. The Emperor could basically act as a theremin with enough gain/volume. I loved it. When first getting into it the feedback was overwhelming. I went to a well known lutier about having the inside sprayfilled with foam to control it. A blasphemy I fortunately didn't follow through with. Said luthier had done work for both Nuge as well as many other names told me to just ride the feedback like a surfboard. After altering my fretting and palm muting I could comfortably play with a cranked amp. Feedback was controlled in my hands. I did have to EQ out the guitar's resonant frequency some. Each hollowbody will have a primary resonance and possibly a couple secondary ones. i.e. The frequency of the feedback of an unfretted, unpicked note. The primary resonance is the one that get's in your way no matter what you do. This one you will have to EQ. Any secondary resonances will be less wild and may be controlable via playing technique or position in relation to the amp. If you wanted to get crazy you could use a 1/3 octave EQ or maybe an API550 to try and ring out the rig to have as even a feedback response as possible. probably overkill. Tame that fundemental resonance and work on your technique will get you just as far. I used to love how with the Emperor I could lightly unmute strings before striking them. The feedback would preceed the note and sound like a reverse reverb live. Hollowbodies are super cool and even better on 11. Ok maybe 10.
Old 9th November 2005
  #11
1484
Guest
Beware, there are some good sounding 335, and others that don't sound as good. The Ibanez Artist, now called John Scofield model does not give that typcial Gibson sound that everyone has. Plus the quality control is better. Guild has the Stuart model that used to be called X170 or Manhattan. Another great guitar, though this is more geared for jazz as it has a little more of an acoustic sound to it. Personally if I was going for a semi hollow body, I would go for the Ibanez.
Old 9th November 2005
  #12
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Not to get off the subject but I gotta chime in .....both Hollywood Bowl shows were fantastic!! and I was lucky enough to be on stage for sound check yesterday. Kieth, Ronnie, Mick and Charlie being up close, they have this chimpanzee gene or something they are such incredible ageless humans. I saw them Friday in Anaheim as well and they were not on, must of been the Anaheim thing >i Hate Anasleim< but the Bowl shows were on ...full on MOJO..... amazing and I have seen every tour since '75. Another good thing is the Bowl is a 5 minute walk from Little Labs! even without a ticket you can hear them at the lab!! Whoo hoo! thumbsup
Old 9th November 2005
  #13
1484
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelabs
Not to get off the subject but I gotta chime in .....both Hollywood Bowl shows were fantastic!! and I was lucky enough to be on stage for sound check yesterday. Kieth, Ronnie, Mick and Charlie being up close, they have this chimpanzee gene or something they are such incredible ageless humans. I saw them Friday in Anaheim as well and they were not on, must of been the Anaheim thing >i Hate Anasleim< but the Bowl shows were on ...full on MOJO..... amazing and I have seen every tour since '75. Another good thing is the Bowl is a 5 minute walk from Little Labs! even without a ticket you can hear them at the lab!! Whoo hoo! thumbsup
Coloring your hair can't hurt either. However Keith looks likes he dead already. Herion and the other abuses he did to his body affected the way he looks today.
Old 9th November 2005
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation
Coloring your hair can't hurt either. However Keith looks likes he dead already. Herion and the other abuses he did to his body affected the way he looks today.
The aging rock star who looks really good is David Bowie.

Were we talking about geetars?
heh
Old 9th November 2005
  #15
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James Lugo's Avatar
 

Hair color or no hair color, I was mesmerized.

Which Ibenez?

What would you say the best semi-hollow body for rock in the $500-$800 range would be?
Old 9th November 2005
  #16
Gear Addict
 
rlnyc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation
However Keith looks likes he dead already. Herion and the other abuses he did to his body affected the way he looks today.
heroin and "other abuses" didn't do sh*t to Keith. I took as much smack as Keith and I still look like an angel. Keith has those english genes that make you end up looking like a craggy cliff as you get old. it has NOTHING to do with dope. (although he does have a nice permanent barbiturate slur)

Mick looks like he's been hit by a truck and he doesn't do hardly any dope compared to Keith.

get your facts straight (;->),
rlnyc
Old 9th November 2005
  #17
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James Lugo's Avatar
 

but what would the stones be if Kieth didn't look rough.
Old 10th November 2005
  #18
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I think Mick did enough cocaine to kill the entire Lower East Side. (or at least enough to make Marilyn Manson look like a wuss!) heh
Old 10th November 2005
  #19
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Quote:
Clapton used a 335 in Cream, need we say more
Yeah...that boy is so over rated it hurts. Solid guitar player, but nothing special.

335 and cranked Marshalls..... I think of Gordie Johnson from Big Sugar, kinda flabby/muddy and out of control. I wouldn't go out of my way for that sound.


Lay it on me boys!
Old 10th November 2005
  #20
1484
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlnyc
heroin and "other abuses" didn't do sh*t to Keith. I took as much smack as Keith and I still look like an angel. Keith has those english genes that make you end up looking like a craggy cliff as you get old. it has NOTHING to do with dope. (although he does have a nice permanent barbiturate slur)

Mick looks like he's been hit by a truck and he doesn't do hardly any dope compared to Keith.

get your facts straight (;->),
rlnyc
So your saying if you get drunk, do acid, pot, and other pills for over 30 years non stop it will not affect the way you look after all the time? ok..
Old 10th November 2005
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation
So your saying if you get drunk, do acid, pot, and other pills for over 30 years non stop it will not affect the way you look after all the time? ok..
Not exactly, but neither do they have the deleterious effects that you would like to attribute to them. (with the exception of alcohol - which is the worst liver poison of the bunch you mention, and "pills", which is so wide a word as to include anything).

This really belongs in another thread (if it belongs anywhere at all in a forum like this), and i don't want to argue with anybody, especially with people who have made their minds up prior to thorough investigations, but i did a LOT of research into the effects and possible deleterious concequences of the drugs i took, and i gotta report that the kind of pharmacuetical narcotics and cocaine that keith and his friends had access to (i being one of them) are FAR less poisonous than the ration of the average heavy drinker. Addictive, yes, but leading to debilitating long term disease, not really.

Some of them actually might be thought of as preservatives, as they kept some of us from growing up and from growing old!

I'll get off my soapbox now, and not return to it in this thread, so if you need a last word, it's all yours...

Best regards,
rlnyc
Old 10th November 2005
  #22
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SiliconAudioLab's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
Yeah...that boy is so over rated it hurts. Solid guitar player, but nothing special.

335 and cranked Marshalls..... I think of Gordie Johnson from Big Sugar, kinda flabby/muddy and out of control. I wouldn't go out of my way for that sound.


Lay it on me boys!
I know what ya mean Kats - flabby's a good word to describe that *but* Malcom w/ one of his numerous hollowbody's contrasted against Angus's sharp bite from the SG w/ one spread left & the one "tossed" right = great stuff. I've been on the desk while they were at it and no matter how you pan it the sound just works.

The hollow body needs a big ol' eq cut "tilt" from a shelf starting @300 then a boost "nubbie" just above @ 150hz

Best hollow in the @ $800 : http://www.music123.com/Washburn-HB35-i29001.music

I got one about 15 years ago and it's still a fantastic score at ANY price range. I checked out like 50 or more in a two month Bay area Guitar Cntr and Guitar Showcase tour and had about $2,000 to spend. Was hoping NOT to spend it all, but I would if I had too. Played the HB35 and snatched it up instantly.
Old 10th November 2005
  #23
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James Lugo's Avatar
 

Thanks Silicon.
Old 10th November 2005
  #24
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5down1up's Avatar
 

an electric to my ears always sounds a lil late if your playing by yourself . a hollowbody just gives another intraction and has imho more dynamics in fact of playing . still not like an acoustic , but much better than " just " an electric . a real hollowbody can be painful when used with an amp so i guess 335 is the magic tool for " modern stuff " .

right now i am playing a es 135 which is called " cheap " with 52-13 strings .
best sound ever to my ears , the only real prob with it is :

now it sounds so hughe compared to the other instruments that you easily blow em all away . but if you have a 24 bd + a double bass ... its all good

" sell me your 335 "

p.s eric clapton is overrated ... cough cough tutt
Old 10th November 2005
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Saw some good footage of The Beatles recording "Cold Turkey" with Lennon playing the gritty, bending, double note riffing lead on.. a 335 - it was amazing sounding.

Chewy? Springy? Like a rubber band?

They always looked 'middle aged' to me , but after seing that footage my opinion changed - at least on the tone they were capable of...
I thought he played an Epi Casino on "Cold Turkey".
Could be wrong.
Old 10th November 2005
  #26
Tim
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winey
I thought he played an Epi Casino on "Cold Turkey".
Could be wrong.
Clapton's on that tune as well (live Toronto, and studio).
Old 10th November 2005
  #27
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Fletcher's Avatar
I played that guitar briefly when they played Fenway in August [along with a couple of the Tele's... lemme tell ya, it was a hoot and a half!!]

That guitar is not a 335, it's something else like a 340 or 350... I forget the number [and no, I'm not going to call Pierre and ask]... but I will say that it's a damn fine instrument... damn fine instrument.
Old 10th November 2005
  #28
I've just spotted the typo...

Hollow Boby... sounds like a nick name for someone... perhaps related to a London Bobby..

Old 10th November 2005
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winey
I thought he played an Epi Casino on "Cold Turkey".
Could be wrong.
Right.. right.. I am undertanding now...

Old 10th November 2005
  #30
How about that nice black 355 that Keith plays. He's been using that one for many tours, and you can actually hear that guitar in the mix!

I found that my '67 Trini Lopez 335 style guitar has a mellow quality next to the solids. It's nice cranked up but somehow that thing feels like it's coming apart when I run it through Basson Sound 4x12's, I don't know if the glue joints can take that for long... or my fillings.

Jim Williams
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