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Joly MJE-K47H vs MG UM70 /UMT70s ? Condenser Microphones
Old 3rd April 2010
  #1
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Joly MJE-K47H vs MG UM70 /UMT70s ?

Any fellow GS'r's compare the new Joly MJE-K47H cap to some of the usual suspects,MG UMT 70,um70 series ,etc?
i'm looking at getting a decent solid state LDC pair for pianos,OH's etc
thanks for the input
Old 3rd April 2010
  #2
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RB - check your PM's.
Old 3rd April 2010
  #3
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
RB - check your PM's.
Got it.
Thanks!
Old 4th April 2010
  #4
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i've been curious about this as well, considering mercenary has released a run of the um70s...
but they cost a ****-ton more than the joly's...... and i know joly knows things about sound!!!!!!


but i would really love to get a pair of the joly heads for a nice tube SDC....

the mojave ma100's like like a great match, but i have not heard of compatibility options yet......
Old 4th April 2010
  #5
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DR Bill if you get a chance would love to know your thoughts! wasn't thinking UM70 replacement but, ended up with 2 Nady LDCs for nothing debating weather to put them on fleabay or what?
Old 4th April 2010
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek View Post
DR Bill if you get a chance would love to know your thoughts!
Will have more thoughts shortly. I'm going to have the fun opportunity of listening to LOTS of MJ's different mods coming up here soon....

At the top of my anticipated list is his mod on the Nady 1050 (U47 type body / headbasket). Can't wait to hear that up against U48 / U67's.
Old 5th April 2010
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
i've been curious about this as well, considering mercenary has released a run of the um70s...
The UM70S/MV692 is kind of a different animal, compared to the Transformer less brothers. Though the capsule and amplifier design is basically the same. The main difference is the modularity of the capsule head, [there are several other capsule options] and the fact that the MV692 amp body uses a transformer output. There may be other small changes, and such, because of this, but I know the UMT70S/MT71S use a transformer less version of the MV692 amplifier, which to my ear yields a DC to Daylight kind of response, [VERY LOW DISTORTION] with extremely quick attack, and seems to handle more extreme SPL. The UM70S/MV692 sound like "sweet" old world microphones, that have sex appeal for all types of sources, though the UMT70S/MT71 are awesome microphones in my opinion.

Can't speak for Mike's, Mikes.
Old 5th April 2010
  #8
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MJ Mods

While this is slightly off topic, MJ performed a super mod (head basket, diaphram, electronics etc) to my Russian, Oktava MKL-2500 tube mic and WOW! Opened it up, nice crisps highs, thick rich and not too woofy lows, solid in the "money" frequencies...all I could want out of a mic. Highly recommended for anyone with this mic. If the other mods work as well that I have to imagine they are a great way to go for high quality recordings...
Old 9th April 2010
  #9
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Will have more thoughts shortly. I'm going to have the fun opportunity of listening to LOTS of MJ's different mods coming up here soon....

At the top of my anticipated list is his mod on the Nady 1050 (U47 type body / headbasket). Can't wait to hear that up against U48 / U67's.
Had the opportunity. Fun and very forthcoming shootouts....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Can't speak for Mike's, Mikes.
NOW I can. heh heh See below.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek View Post
DR Bill if you get a chance would love to know your thoughts! wasn't thinking UM70 replacement but, ended up with 2 Nady LDCs for nothing debating weather to put them on fleabay or what?
Which Nady LDC's?

I had one of MJ's modded Nady 1050's, and it was stunning. Very comparable to the U48 that it sat up against. A little more air up top, a little less "grind" in the upper mids. Ugh...um...how to describe mics.......

I would call it a slightly (and we're talking VERY small hairs here) more "pop" sound than the U48. The 1050 had slightly less upper mid distortion / breakup under HEAVY pressure levels from a VERY dynamic singer, and just a tad more "air" up top. Not harsh, just air.

Compared to the UM70? That's a non-comparison to me. Very different sounds. Although the UM70 shares an M7 capsule with the 47/48 it's got a very different sound. Lean and agressive - not as full and massive as a 48/1050.

Hope that helps.
Old 10th April 2010
  #10
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Ok Bill, don't laugh to hard I was given A MF gift card worth $50. Living in KC I went to the now defunct clearance center (soooooo much Junk) I left with 3 Nady trs patchbays ( they were cheaper than the vent panels I was looking for at $10ea and work great for building new racks, much stiffer than blank panels). So I paid $20 for a pair of Nady SCM900s. Haven't pluged them in, figured they would be great props for a photographer who is always renting my 2 other LDC's (Lawson 47 fet and Soundelux 195). I don't do alot of tracking and do love those Gefells with the M7 so when RB brought up the idea of these as substitutes I thought, hey it would be alot cheaper and these things are sitting here in their boxes.
I listened to Micheals samples, couldn't tell much. Then you chimed in so here we are.
Old 10th April 2010
  #11
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drBill's Avatar
Oops, just reread the thread, drank some more coffee and realized I got sidetracked from the original question :

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Any fellow GS'r's compare the new Joly MJE-K47H cap to some of the usual suspects,MG UMT 70,um70 series ,etc?
i'm looking at getting a decent solid state LDC pair for pianos,OH's etc
thanks for the input

Hunter - well, I finally had a good time to shootout the new MJE-K47H heads. I put them up against U87's, M71's, UM70's, etc.. Wish you could have made it out....but maybe next time.



Short opinion?
Jump to the last paragraph.

Real description?
Read on......



My thoughts are after close to a hundred shootouts with close to a dozen MJ microphones and the usual German suspects, and are my current initial "shoot from the hip" take on things after 4 brutally long days. I shot out Drums OH, Drums in general, Ac Gtrs, Elec. Gtrs, and several vocalists, including one that could easily melt the face off a U87. In the days and weeks that follow, I will be listening more carefully, using the mics more and forming more definitive thoughts. Eventually, I'll probably put up some clips if it's OK with MJ. (Can't see why it wouldn't be.)

The 47H is different from the UM 70 - and equally wonderful. Actually, seeing as how the 47H is currently Cardiod only, it compares more directly with a Gefell M71S (the card only version of the UM70 which is of course multi-pattern.) The 47H holds it's own and then some. The 47H is a huge, HUGE sounding FET mic. Generally larger sounding than almost any other FET I put up against it.

I used mostly API pre's at my place and Neve's at the other studios I visited.

The 47H has a very apparent "size" upon first listen along with a big bottom end, (some serious bootay!!heh) and a sweet presence "mound" (gentle rise) that is voiced up pretty high. Voiced higher than standard Chinese fare, but not quite up into the "air only" region. Nice on the HF most of the time, but occasionally a little bright for me. In comparison, the UM70 (which I LOVE and is one of my most used mics) is pretty thin in comparison, although the high end on the UM is slightly more understated than the 47H, and itself occasionally too bright for me.

The UM70 rolls off on the bottom though. Especially if you compare it to say a U87. The 47H does not. It's bigger on the bottom than a 87, and for some uses a HPF on the pre or channel strip would be necessary. I put 2 47H's on OH (against 87's I think, but it may have been against M71S's) on a thrashy punk-ish type pounding drum track, and the 47H's sounded like a freakinig train coming down the tracks and into the CRM. heh heh

After I finished my listening tests, I handed them off to Rob Schnapf who is tracking an Aussie ROCK power trio at SS (on their older API console) and is putting them up as overheads. It will be interesting to hear his take on them for a power trio. I'd say they would be good for that app. His other option was U67's. Fun to hear what he ends up with on OH.

I'd say these mics (47H) accell at any application that is not too busy where you can use a little "bigger than life" wild abandon in the low end to help fill things out, and also where your initial source is not too bright.

Oh yeah, and vocals........



If you like FET's on VOX - say like an 87......one word.

K I L L E R

Bigger, and more polished (high end) than an 87 though. Very complementary the vocals I ran thru it.

Hope that helps. If you're free next week, and if I have drums coming in, I'll let you know and you're welcome to check em out.





Oh yeah, the short take. What's that saying? Possesion is 9/10ths of the law??? heh heh MJ will have to pry these pre-production models out of my hands. These are definately on my short list. (Along with the previously mentioned 1050.) Oh yeah, don't forget that you need to have the preamp bodies modded to get the full benefit out of these babies, but the mod is very inexpensive (I think $80-90 or so) and that adds up to an awesome FET mic that is priced under $500 with the option of running the preamp with a SDC capsule as well. IMO, Michael is going to have a big hit on his hands. This capsule head is one of the two or three standouts for me over 4 days. thumbsup
Old 10th April 2010
  #12
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek View Post
So I paid $20 for a pair of Nady SCM900s. Haven't pluged them in, figured they would be great props for a photographer who is always renting my 2 other LDC's (Lawson 47 fet and Soundelux 195). I don't do alot of tracking and do love those Gefells with the M7 so when RB brought up the idea of these as substitutes I thought, hey it would be alot cheaper and these things are sitting here in their boxes.
I listened to Micheals samples, couldn't tell much. Then you chimed in so here we are.
I don't know if MJ puts his capsule into SCM900's. What I DO know is that the 47H sounded better to me on several sources than some of the other mics that had one of his 47 capsules mounted in them. Your best bet on the 900's is to ask MJ if he's ever done those and what his opinion is.....
Old 10th April 2010
  #13
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Wow.
thanks Bill.
great news.
can't wait to hear these mics.
sorry I missed hangin' w/ you this week.
so far next wed's thru the weekend is looking wide open. thumbsup
Old 10th April 2010
  #14
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nomatic's Avatar
I don't have experience with the gefell's but I will chime in with
DR Bill about the size of presentation in regards to the MJE-K47.
I put this mic up on a low wattage 1-12 combo and it became 6 feet tall!

Just buy a couple....
Old 10th April 2010
  #15
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The big sonic "size" of the MJE-K47H is really news to me.

I don't have a locker of vintage, iconic mics to compare my work to. So I'm starting to outsource more of my testing to hear my mics against the classics. Dr. Bill just wrapped up his tests and I haven't heard any A / B results yet. But his early reports indicate the K47H was a strong performer.
Old 10th April 2010
  #16
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

I would like to see a MJE-K47H version that's compatible with a MG 691/692
body... pretty please?

Ruudman
Old 10th April 2010
  #17
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruudman View Post
I would like to see a MJE-K47H version that's compatible with a MG 691/692
body... pretty please?

Ruudman
+11thumbsup

also I'd love to pop one of these on my Shcoeps CMC bodies
Old 10th April 2010
  #18
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chet.d's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruudman View Post
I would like to see a MJE-K47H version that's compatible with a MG 691/692
body... pretty please?

Ruudman
Or, with an MJ modded MK-102 body...?
Though I think this is in the works.
Old 10th April 2010
  #19
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomatic View Post
I put this mic up on a low wattage 1-12 combo and it became 6 feet tall!
No kidding huh? It's weird. Almost sounds like a FET/Tube hybrid or something to me. It definitely SOUNDS to me like a FET, but it has more size and width. Kind of tube-like in that respect. Several times when I put it up I was just floored with how it sounded.
Old 10th April 2010
  #20
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruudman View Post
I would like to see a MJE-K47H version that's compatible with a MG 691/692
body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
I'd love to pop one of these on my Shcoeps CMC bodies
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet.d View Post
Or, with an MJ modded MK-102 body...?
+1, although I must give an opinion here. Over the 4 days, I auditioned many different mics that had MJ's 47 capsule in them. In regards to the FET versions of his mics, the 47H with modded 603 body is the one that really impressed me. The others weren't bad, it was just that the 47H had a unique and big sound so I tended to gravitate in that direction. Sometimes two things are just meant to go together - like peanut butter and jelly. I'd be a little surprised if the 47H and 603 are not in that category.
Old 10th April 2010
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
If you like FET's on VOX - say like an 87......one word.

K I L L E R

Bigger, and more polished (high end) than an 87 though. Very complementary the vocals I ran thru it.
Just curious as to whether you had vintage or current 87's for the comparison.
Old 10th April 2010
  #22
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
Just curious as to whether you had vintage or current 87's for the comparison.
3 different Vintage 87's. Wait, actually 4 different ones. Two in my studio and two in a couple other studios.
Old 10th April 2010
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
3 different Vintage 87's. Wait, actually 4 different ones. Two in my studio and two in a couple other studios.
Great, thanks. I have a vintage 87 and a pair of UMT70s's. Your description of the Joly sounds like it falls somewhere in between these two, but with more size than either. Could be just the ticket sometimes.

Let me get this straight, though—we're talking about an MXL 603 body, right? Is it really allowable to mention MXL in this forum?
Old 10th April 2010
  #24
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Thanks Bill,
MJ said he could do the 900 but, now I'm thinking fleabay, buy a pair of 603s find a apex type or 2. The way I'm looking at it is for the price of a cheap abused 87 at worst I end up with 4 useable mics, but from what you have said I think I'm going to be a happy camper!
Old 10th April 2010
  #25
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
Let me get this straight, though—we're talking about an MXL 603 body, right? Is it really allowable to mention MXL in this forum?

hehheh HEY!!!! Shhhhhh....don't say the M word. LOL I think Michael may fix that problem though. If he ever settles on his branding and logo, I think he's going to start manufacturing the bodies himself and that will fix the stigma problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek View Post
The way I'm looking at it is for the price of a cheap abused 87 at worst I end up with 4 useable mics, but from what you have said I think I'm going to be a happy camper!
I think anyone would be happy with the 47H, but let me say that it ISN'T an 87. Sometimes it sounds very close, other times quite different. It is certainly "bigger" sounding than an 87. It is often "brighter" sounding than an 87. But they are in the same LDC mid range focused FET sounding camp, although like I said above, the "size" of the 47H makes me think "tube".

Hopefully this is a mic that will start getting out into peoples hands. I have no doubts you'll be hearing a lot more about it soon. But I probably wouldn't buy 4 of them. I'd get two of those, and a 1050, and maybe one of MJ's 460's and that would be a very sweet combo. thumbsupthumbsup
Old 10th April 2010
  #26
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Daedalus77's Avatar
Can I remove the capsule on a stock 603 and affix Mr. Joly's capsule myself, or is the idea I send him the MXLs and he adds them. Didn't know that the stock MXL stuff was modular, as the Gefell is.
Old 10th April 2010
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus77 View Post
Can I remove the capsule on a stock 603 and affix Mr. Joly's capsule myself, or is the idea I send him the MXLs and he adds them. Didn't know that the stock MXL stuff was modular, as the Gefell is.
Good question. You can do the swap yourself. The MXL 603, as well as other similar mics with models like 991, CM-54, CM-90, 1200, 180, 404, v67n and SC-1 have screw-on SDC capsules. These simply screw off and the large diaphragm MJE-K47H capsule head screws on. Though the SDC capsule housings have minor differences between them, all of these mics have essentially the same circuit and all work with the MJE-K47H capsule head.

Btw - the attachment of the MJE-K47H capsule head to the 22mm body has a feature I'm very pleased to offer - mechanical security.
The 22mm SDC body attaches to the capsule head threads well up into the K47H "body cone". The "body cone" provides a very protective physical contact between the capsule head and 22mm body and thus eliminates the possibility of capsule head / body thread damage should the mic ever be dropped. Also, there is a rubber insert to prevent marring the SDC body and this also provides some additional vibration isolation. Capsule head / body contact is the weak physical link in other designs I've seen and used.

While my modifications to the body electronics in these 22mm SDC mics are not required in order to use the MJE-K47H capsule head, they do improve bass response, lower midrange distortion and 'sweeten' the top end of the SDC circuit (and these benefits carry over to SDC capsule use as well). If desired, folks can send me their SDC body for modification and I would return it with an MJE-K47H capsule head (if purchased) with one of three packages I offer - the "Solo" (a paperboard box) or the "Mono" or "Stereo" (aluminum cases with shock mounts and SDC body / capsule storage).

As Bill mentioned, I am putting my own compatible 22mm, FET / transformerless SDC body on the fast track to production because many folks have been asking for a complete MJE-K47H / 22mm body combo as they don't own a compatible 22mm mic.

Re: other body compatibility - I've been collecting a list of the most popular modular SDC body types. I will be considering producing capsule heads and / or adapters to fit other body types in the future. But the quickest way to get "K47H size" is to purchase a Nady CM-90 and have me mod it at the same time an MJE-K47H capsule head is ordered.
Old 10th April 2010
  #28
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Is there any difference between the 603 and 603s in terms of compatibility?
Old 10th April 2010
  #29
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Not a bit.
Old 10th April 2010
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
As Bill mentioned, I am putting my own compatible 22mm, FET / transformerless SDC body on the fast track to production because many folks have been asking for a complete MJE-K47H / 22mm body combo as they don't own a compatible 22mm mic.

Am I mistaken in thinking you also are going to release your own 22mm tube SDC for compatibility as well????? I thought I read somewhere that you had plans for a SDC tube mic with a SDC head, that could also be compatible with the MJ-K47H.

I have also talked to the guys at Mojave and they said you had plans to affix the K47H to their MA-100 tube SDC, but that was a year or so ago.

Will there be a tube SDC for the K47H at some point Michael?
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