The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Questions regarding consoles, summing boxes and ITB mixing. Consoles
Old 7th April 2010
  #151
Gear Addict
 
NoizyNinja's Avatar
 

Congrats James. After demoing a Nicerizer and a Chandler I went with the Chandler. The Nicerizer was great but reliability was something I was concerned with. The Nicerizer is filled with their op-amps coated in plastic (so you can't steal the secret recipe) and they tend to go due to ventilation issues.

I felt the high end on the Nicerizer was really sweet but the Chandler just adds this 'gush' when you really push it. Don't be afraid to really turn up the output and ignore the meter. I think it's great for rock or whenever you want that 'gush'. You can also back it all off and get fairly clean. I also have a Speck X.Sum which is great piece- much cleaner so it complements nicely.

Eventually I'd like to get an API board and I know I can always incorporate the Chandler as a sidecar.
Old 8th April 2010
  #152
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

We spent the afternoon doing a quick mix on a tune and then stemming out audio to 10 tracks and 4 tracks of effects to the Chandler Mini Rack Mixer. This was fun and a great way to hear for myself. I spent some time at a buddies studio last week doing this and was really into the Chandler but until you get it in your spot and start hackin through it you just don't know.

So we took an old song and stripped everything off of it, the original mix was super deep and I just wanted a simple rough mix to listen to today. We spent about an hour leveling it off and doing some basic eq and compression. We got it sounding pretty good, then we stemmed it out to the Chandler and dialed in our levels. For me the tone I heard instantaneously brought joy to my heart. The Chandler for whatever reason agrees with my guitar playing and sense of guitar sound. Anyway we did a bounce summed OTB. Then we set the session back up for ITB and calibrated the levels and did an ITB bounce, set them up side by side and listened back and forth for about an hour with a room full of people. F'n cool, then I did a burn and took them in my car and listened back and forth on my way home from the studio. The results for me were really exciting, the OTB mix was where I want my music to sound and to think that it was a 1 hour rough mix that wasn't even mixed into the unit in the first place, I can only imagine the potential of this setup.

This is in no way a shootout or a scientific experiment, this I did for myself because I'm on a quest for tone and this has been nipping at my heels. I uploaded the files a 192 mp3's and a video.



ITB:
SoundClick artist: James Lugo - page with MP3 music downloads

OTB:
SoundClick artist: James Lugo - page with MP3 music downloads
Old 8th April 2010
  #153
Lives for gear
 
superburtm's Avatar
 

very exciting man thumbsup You really have opened up a lot of tonal potential with that chandler and tape machine
Old 8th April 2010
  #154
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm View Post
very exciting man thumbsup You really have opened up a lot of tonal potential with that chandler and tape machine
Thanks man, we've come along way since you were here last year. Actually your recording session prompted me to make some changes, so without you knowing it you helped me.
Old 8th April 2010
  #155
Lives for gear
 
Bubbakron's Avatar
 

I'm very happy for you brother, I'm glad you decided not to pass on the whole concept. Can you imaging trying to work some ****ty Raindirk style console into that room, and pay 12 grand for it. I think you made the right choice!!!
Old 8th April 2010
  #156
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
Cool, James
I know that kind of sound (similar to what I like to do the most) and yes OTB opens space and dimension compared to ITB.
There are many factors that influence that, the most important possibly is a bit different approach to mixing in general and reduced use of digital processing.
What I learned from Nicerizer and Chandler (used them both, but opted for Nicerizer instead) that they help to reach sonic improvements, but with one main drawbackheh.
You'll become addicted to analogue and will find that nothing except analogue console can fully satisfy that need.
Even more, that only very good analogue (lot of headroom, low noise, solid build quality etc. like API, Neve, Tonelux and other usual high end brands) will be the right choice, so start to save pennies, summing boxes will be OK for some time, but not long, bro.
Cheap consoles will unfortunatelly not help, so be ready.
ITB is more-less good for rap, RnB, dance, but totally sucks for reaching nirvana in rock+distorted guitars+big sonic scene.
Old 8th April 2010
  #157
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang View Post
Cool, James
I know that kind of sound (similar to what I like to do the most) and yes OTB opens space and dimension compared to ITB.
There are many factors that influence that, the most important possibly is a bit different approach to mixing in general and reduced use of digital processing.
What I learned from Nicerizer and Chandler (used them both, but opted for Nicerizer instead) that they help to reach sonic improvements, but with one main drawbackheh.
You'll become addicted to analogue and will find that nothing except analogue console can fully satisfy that need.
Even more, that only very good analogue (lot of headroom, low noise, solid build quality etc. like API, Neve, Tonelux and other usual high end brands) will be the right choice, so start to save pennies, summing boxes will be OK for some time, but not long, bro.
Cheap consoles will unfortunatelly not help, so be ready.
ITB is more-less good for rap, RnB, dance, but totally sucks for reaching nirvana in rock+distorted guitars+big sonic scene.
Yeah I'm with you. I'm not really looking at getting the big console thing, maybe way down the line, my buddies own rooms with Neves and SSLs if I want to mix there. Right now I need to shift gears and get my head back into making money, it's been a hell of a few months and I gotta get a grip.

Old 8th April 2010
  #158
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo View Post
Right now I need to shift gears and get my head back into making money, it's been a hell of a few months and I gotta get a grip.
I admit I enjoyed your posts all those months.
So much energy involved thumbsup
Good luck on next stage
Old 8th April 2010
  #159
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo View Post
Most of you know where I'm at; new studio, some new gear, tape machine etc... We've been mixing the first batch of tunes that we tracked in the new room, these were mostly not tracked to tape, we didn't have the tape machine yet. We are mixing itb using hardware inserts. The mixes sound good but there's something just bugging me, mostly a slight lack of muscle and weight in the mix and also the lack of cohesive color. I'm finding when I listen to songs mixed well on a console there's a pervasive tone that all the tracks in the song share. ITB sounds very transparent to me and I don't like it for rock. It's like each track sounds very unique to itself.

So I'm starting this thread in hopes of getting some concepts and direction from gearslutz members with experience with this.

A couple of questions:

1. Is it possible to get a console sound using a summing mixer and doing all your automation in PT?

2. If possible, I have a DA16X what if I got a second one and used 10 or so outs as insert outs for my hardware comps and eq's (inserting in and out on to the protools track) and then summed out stems from the remaining out (16 - 20 outs)?

3. Has anyone had success in doing this? What summing box got you the most fatness and width?

I know the ultimate is to get a console but I just don't have the money right now. The reality is that we will be using protools as the audio storage, so please don't go into how we should get RADAR and console. I can't do that now. I can probably scrounge up the money for another Apogee and a kick ass summing mixer or mixer without automation.

With what I have proposed (another DA and a mixer) do you think we can get some added fatness and ass on our mixes? I know this is a subject that has many opinions, I'm really looking for guys who have improved there mix sound from itb to some sort of alternative. This thread is the last thing I want to do, I am so sick of f'n around with gear but I feel like I'm so close and I just want to get the sound I'm looking for. The other thing is I'm looking for units with TONE, nothing transparent. I want mojo.

???

Thanks,
James

Hey james, I watch your utube videos you have a badass setup. I have the Apogee AD/DA 16 x combo. I had the same issues mixing in the box. I started mixing down through my neotek console and that took care of the problem right away. Big bottom Gooey nice blended ass smackin tone. you can get one for the price of a da 16x/summing box. Good luck

Steven Antoniazzi
Old 9th April 2010
  #160
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

Old 9th April 2010
  #161
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Hey James,

Looks like you guys are having a lot of fun. I couldn't help but notice those Apogees running at 44.1k. Have you ever tried working at 96k? I think you may find yourself moving up another notch in quality. Something to consider...

Brad
Old 23rd May 2010
  #162
ksm
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
James, you're not going to get more "muscle" from a summing box. All a summing box does is relieve the problem of the crappy headroom of the PT summing bus. ...
What!?!?!?
This is just Bull....! SNR in Pt 48 bit mixer is about 288 dB. With external summing box the dynamic range will be much lower than that. Signal goes through DA -converters and their SNR is much less than 120 dB, how is this going to make things better?

IMHO it's just about gain staging and if you need some extra "mojo" for the sound use some great device in master buss...

- Niko
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
malekmusic / So much gear, so little time
7
perx / So much gear, so little time
0
arthurchino / So much gear, so little time
6
jho / Q+A with Mike Shipley
5

Forum Jump
Forum Jump