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Sony C800G based vocal chains Condenser Microphones
Old 24th March 2010
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff D. View Post
Congrats CJ on finally getting an "A" list mic!

Do you think the C12VR will ever come out of it's case again?



P.S. To the skeptics: I have heard CJ's music, he's way talented and really does need a mic like this to compete with the established producers in his genre.
Thank you Sir... I appreciate it Not as skilled in anyway or knowledged as you, but just keep working at it ... you know
Yes JD I ended up getting it. I know it was not on that 'exact recommended' list of yours but I got a good deal on it and it was literally un-opened. I broke the seal so I gathered at worst case if I totally hate it I could sell it and not loose too much.
As you said, I will also keep an eye out for the U67 modded but atleast I know this would work for now. I am also going to probably go the CL1B route for now as per your advise and also by what's posted. It was not my fav between the Retro 176 and CL1B, but I think it will best work for my artists on average.
As for the C12VR, yeah its packed up..haha... it will be missed and I willl certainly pull it out to try. The CAD VX2 is still good though and certainly out does the Sony on a couple of voices.

Thanks again JD. You are an A+
Old 24th March 2010
  #62
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Often people on this board put the manley ref or the peluso VTB next to the sony in term of sound. In the peluso's case there is not even contest. There's nothing similar about the 2 mics. Nada. What can be perceived as openness, extended silky highs in the sony sound hyped artificial and spitty in the peluso VTB! And no vintage 1073 can tame that. Now the manley certainly sound better than the peluso but is a VERY different mic from the sony. Manley is yes open, with extended highs but is also overly clinical and DOES NOT give you a radio sound like the 800G. Only the sony sound like the sony. But i can understand 8k are hard to swallow.. But to me is totally worth the high price tag. A truly magical mic that, like or not, is the sound of modern Pop, Hip Hop and RnB. To the OP: If i were you i'd stick with the classic CL1B vocal chain.
Old 24th March 2010
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXDigi View Post
don't hate

you may not like her music but one thing she isn't is mediocre.
That girl can sing and she was found purely based on her singing talent. She is an awesome artist in my opinion who is also versatile and has managed to sustain herself in the industry for a while now.
Good luck with the project!!
Old 24th March 2010
  #64
C800G -> API 512C -> LA-2A sounds pretty good to my ears. And I'm not a big fan of API preamps.

If you live in a big city, call up some gear rental places and say you want to shoot out some preamps to find one that works with your singer/mic and most likely they'll let you try out 3 or 4 for a day and only make you pay for the one you want.
Old 24th March 2010
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solidstate View Post
To the OP: If i were you i'd stick with the classic CL1B vocal chain.
Hi

Thanks. Yes I will be making a decision today and so far it's certainly the CL1B. I appreciate every piece of feedback.

I think I will also eliminate Summit because I really found it hard to connect with the Underdogs' vocal sound. Not sure why but to my ears, the musicality was always not there. I truly cannot blame the compressor for it but perhaps in my mind going for the safe(r) option.

I am curious to know more about the Sony C800G. What mic to vocalist distances do you typically use for pop? Ive have been doing 8"-12" but have noticed that <8" actually is generally nicer and it hits that sweet spot.
Old 24th March 2010
  #66
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inthere's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXDigi View Post
don't hate

you may not like her music but one thing she isn't is mediocre.
It's always amazed me how some out of tune singers get rated high because they're "cool" and "underground". Kelly Clarkson came out of nowhere to command not only power and range, but perfect pitch in front of millions of people week after pressure filled week.
Old 24th March 2010
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
Hi

Thanks. Yes I will be making a decision today and so far it's certainly the CL1B. I appreciate every piece of feedback.

I think I will also eliminate Summit because I really found it hard to connect with the Underdogs' vocal sound. Not sure why but to my ears, the musicality was always not there. I truly cannot blame the compressor for it but perhaps in my mind going for the safe(r) option.

I am curious to know more about the Sony C800G. What mic to vocalist distances do you typically use for pop? Ive have been doing 8"-12" but have noticed that <8" actually is generally nicer and it hits that sweet spot.
No problem man, Is always nice to help cats like yourself Well i usually let the talent work the mic but i actually don't mind when he or she sing a little closer to the mic.. The sony doesn't have a big lows bump proximity effect ala neuman so you can even work say about 6-10" close for leads.. For Bvs you might wanna make the talent step back a little. By the way I'm assuming you have a proper vocal both, right? Just remember to use an high quality pop filter and make sure you get the gain staging right and you're good to go
Old 24th March 2010
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solidstate View Post
By the way I'm assuming you have a proper vocal both, right? Just remember to use an high quality pop filter and make sure you get the gain staging right and you're good to go
Thanks for the information man. I will try it out for sure.
To answer your question, yes I do have a decent vocal booth and a pop filter .. i posted some pictures before on this thread but it's probably hard to tell the size and shape of the booth..

By the way, you mentioned about the vintage 1073s.. Do you think a 1073DPA (AMS Neve made, no Eqs) still do the trick in taming the Sony down a little compared to the Vintage along with a CL1B....I understand that the Eq component alone in the 1073, even if not tweeked, adds a certain color that a Neve with no Eq would not have..

ps. Checked ur myspace. Nice stuff man. I am working with a J-Pop artist atm as well and it's been so much fun!
Old 24th March 2010
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solidstate View Post
make sure you get the gain staging right and you're good to go
COol point you touched on.
What I typically do is with input signals, I record those to peak at no greater than -6 dB on the meters. Is that something you typically work with?

Also, just slightly deviating from this, but on faders alone, if the master fader clips, I now try not to bring that down but bring all the individual faders down. I used to bring master fader down in mixing when it clipped but for some reason, seem to prefer the sound I get when I bring individual faders down and keep the master fader up.
Old 24th March 2010
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
dude.. didn't you just ask to come by his place?

And then you insult him by calling him "a clueless wannabe producer", "rich kid", etc..

...next time, first measure the foot before you try to stuff in mouth... may be too big to swallow.
i almost spit my coffee when i read it too. i think lago is a little bi-polar, or one of those Ritalin kids based on how he flips from excitement to flat out flips . like one of those kids running wild in the supermarket drivin their mom nuts. i also seriously, seriously doubt his experience with high end equipment that he rattles off and think most of his "knowledge" is simply based on what he reads. anyways, ask a guy to invite you for a hang in probably a cool studio and then overtly insult the guy? lolwtf!.how un-canadian of you, lago

as for the stt-1. it isn't "dark" by nature but if you engage the transformer, it'll get dark. i personally didn't find it to be the same nice dark of say a chandler or great river, but it did come in handy when i needed it for electric guitar and mandolin one time. i actually prefer the stt-1 in tube mode more than ss. the eq is also great, so by means of the eq, you can darken it up.
Old 24th March 2010
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Hombre View Post
Ritalin kids based on how he flips from excitement to flat out flips . lolwtf!.how un-canadian of you, lago

as for the stt-1. it isn't "dark" by nature but if you engage the transformer, it'll get dark. i personally didn't find it to be the same nice dark of say a chandler or great river, but it did come in handy when i needed it for electric guitar and mandolin one time. i actually prefer the stt-1 in tube mode more than ss. the eq is also great, so by means of the eq, you can darken it up.
Hi
Im on the floor laffin on the Ritalin comment. my client this morning is going to think im high or something. Thanks!!! Let's move on though. No insult taken from Lago .. Let's put it down to opinion and expression.

Interesting on the STT and how many folks use it with the Sony. I certainly have to try that chain out somehow. I think VK may have that too. THx!
Old 24th March 2010
  #72
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the one time i used it, i liked it best on the darker sounding pre because it's very bright like mentioned

i've used a modded Siemens V72A tube pre with a Teltronix LA2A (hardly compressing, more as colour machine), i had also the choice of using the SSL 4000 console or Focusrite ISA110 (new series) pre's in that session but both didn't dark it up enough.
Old 24th March 2010
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Sorry but the more I read this thread, the less I wanted to meet the guy heh .
Hey Chris
Not sure why you actually think that any relationship in life is a one-way-street. Its two way pal and if you simply took that analogy, you will probably understand that after seeing your flip personality and disrespectful attitude, do you think I would want to spend a minute working with you, or just hanging out? Please try not to be so ahead of yourself that you miss the simple things in life. You PMd me selling your services to me and I was even considering sending you some songs to be mixed...silly me!

And going by the 5,803 posts you have on GS within under 2 years tell me that you are too busy doing this than actually working.
Old 24th March 2010
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
You are so right. Thanks for the lecture, I really needed it.
... thats okay
I will send you an invoice shortly
Old 24th March 2010
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Trust me, if anyone would be buying an expensive mic like that, I'd strongly doubt that they wouldn't know what to use it with, like come on! Just go out there and try some chains, it's not that hard especially in California.
Money is not everything but it certainly helps. You know I have to now tell you to respectfully shut the * up... Curb your imagination boy on my income and money making skillz. I just bust my ass. Dude to earn 5K a week is not hard if you actually deliver everyday, have a marketing strategy other than 'me me me' and create work for others.. then work atleast a 14 hour day. Period. Think about it, even if you charge 1K for a basic demo song (demo these days as I am sure you know has to be very solid) and you can turn 4 songs in a week (why should a pop/rnb type demo take you more than 2 days anyway?). Whats so hard to work out about that? Also, as an FYI, big jobs pay alot more than that. I know of a producer who charges 10K per track and another 30K. Yup.
Because these three threads helped me solidify the compressor set up for my chain. I was mostly confused between the CL1B, Retro or maybe.. Summit TLA.. But based on comments here and yes I have tested them too (CL1B and Retro), I have actually resorted to the CL1B. I just made the call to order. So my go to chains are going to be either:

Sony C800G, CAD VX2, C12VR
Neve 1073 DPA, Demeter VTMP-2A (used on Alanis' record), Focusrite ISA430 MK1 (works on nearly everything)
Maybe some API 5500Eq
CL1B

Thats it. My goal is to have another mic, maybe U67 modded by end of the year.
Getting back to the original thread, now I can boast about my Sony C800-G as I worked my ass to buy it and will boast about it to fellow slutters (who I know have workd their asses to get one or more too) and clients. We are passionate slutz after all

Peace.
Old 24th March 2010
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Oh I see, that's how you really make your 5k per week heh Why are you hiding your website address? I'd really like to hear your productions, just so I can shut myself up a little.
Lol.. I am glad you have some sense of humor.. for my advise though, I would have to charge you $25k. Not 5. lol..

www.myspace.com/clarencejey i have nothing to hide i write, produce,,,, try hard to engineer
Old 24th March 2010
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
, it's clueless me, .
BTw, i will hold you up on that. If we ever bump into each other, make sure you have your favorite instrument with ya... I will do the same
Let's jam till we bleed.. K?
Old 24th March 2010
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Deal
Im still waitin on your criticisms on my demos at my myspace. Please be kind .. and no, they are not thru the Sony C-800g and none of those are very recent.
Old 24th March 2010
  #79
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My Sony paid for itself in 1 song...oh and that one song paid for another dozen or so more C800G as well heh ...
this Mic is Not expensive if you are a Pro and make money with it, if you are a hobbyist it might be a waist of money.
When I charge what I charge labels, I have to deliver quality and image (brand) the Sony gives me both I don't care how much it cost, it's worth it
Old 24th March 2010
  #80
From what I've heard, the music is good, but what I assumed was true; the vocal booth needs more treatment, as I can hear excess reverb, which brings the vox in the back and not as forward sounding. Because of the lack of treatment in the booth, you don't get an honest representation of the microphones you're using, and the sound of the vox can be a bit warbly. I had a lot of these problems, but then I built myself some thick bass traps with Rockwool, and now I don't have to worry about it anymore. This alone will help your microphones as well as the singers too. Also, of course a dedicated mixing engineer wouldn't hurt either. This was my honest review of your productions. As soon as you get this booth treated with something decent, either Rockwool or Owens Corning 703, you'll hear a major difference in the vocal sound. With a mic like the c800g (and with Brauner and others), it's crucial that the room gets treated, or else you will hear all the weaknesses in the room, and the vocals end up sounding a bit amateurish. For Pop/Hip-Hop/RNB, I find it's much better to get the vox as dry as possible at the source, and then add Compression, effects after. Especially if you use a CL1b in this room, the only thing it'll do is worsen the reverb problem, and will accentuate the room deficiencies more. So when I mix someone else, I can get pretty frustrated if I hear room ambiance on the singer's vocal takes. I usually ask the producer to retrack or live with it. As soon as the room is treated, the vox will sound clearer, bigger and more in your face. It's exactly what is needed for 21st century pop/hip-hop/RNB.
Old 24th March 2010
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
My Sony paid for itself in 1 song...oh and that one song paid for another dozen or so more C800G as well heh ...
this Mic is Not expensive if you are a Pro and make money with it, if you are a hobbyist it might be a waist of money.
When I charge what I charge labels, I have to deliver quality and image (brand) the Sony gives me both I don't care how much it cost, it's worth it
)) im starting to feel ya too man. Totally. No Ferrari = No Grand Prix...
Old 25th March 2010
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
From what I've heard, the music is good, but what I assumed was true; the vocal booth needs more treatment, as I can hear excess reverb, which brings the vox in the back and not as forward sounding. Because of the lack of treatment in the booth, you don't get an honest representation of the microphones you're using, and the sound of the vox can be a bit warbly. I had a lot of these problems, but then I built myself some thick bass traps with Rockwool, and now I don't have to worry about it anymore. This alone will help your microphones as well as the singers too. Also, of course a dedicated mixing engineer wouldn't hurt either. This was my honest review of your productions. As soon as you get this booth treated with something decent, either Rockwool or Owens Corning 703, you'll hear a major difference in the vocal sound. With a mic like the c800g (and with Brauner and others), it's crucial that the room gets treated, or else you will hear all the weaknesses in the room, and the vocals end up sounding a bit amateurish. For Pop/Hip-Hop/RNB, I find it's much better to get the vox as dry as possible at the source, and then add Compression, effects after. Especially if you use a CL1b in this room, the only thing it'll do is worsen the reverb problem, and will accentuate the room deficiencies more. So when I mix someone else, I can get pretty frustrated if I hear room ambiance on the singer's vocal takes. I usually ask the producer to retrack or live with it. As soon as the room is treated, the vox will sound clearer, bigger and more in your face. It's exactly what is needed for 21st century pop/hip-hop/RNB.
I do agree with Chris where recording the sony in a booth is not optimal, I used to do it and even I made it work well it was a pain and I wasn't using the Sony to it's full potentiel, since I moved to my new studio and have a great treated room with very high ceillings, I switch from the booth to a live room with 2 GIK acoustic screen panels and it sounds so much smoother and natural, the SOny will capture the room in very detail so if your room/booth sucks and is muddy it will capture just that! I actually had some better results with cheaper not as detailed mics in the booth then with the Sony sometimes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
)) im starting to feel ya too man. Totally. No Ferrari = No Grand Prix...
yep u can't even compete in the big boys league if you don't have big boys toys !!heh
Old 25th March 2010
  #83
Before you spend money on a tracking compressor, I strongly suggest you invest in a GIK package to cover all your bases. What I really hate most of all is someone who owns high quality mics but invests nothing in acoustic treatment, this is one of the things that pisses me off the most, especially since you have clients who pay for your services. I sure wouldn't record vox in a studio if it didn't have a great vocal tracking room, nevermind the mics. The Mics and the singer are only half the battle, next is... Well you know. Plus I am so jealous that you have these mics, and pissed at the same time since you're tracking in an untreated space (I wouldn't call Auralex foam room treatment). All these things are stirring up a pot of anger that I just can't... Ahhhh

Please. You care about your clients, give them the best they can get, don't take their money and spend it on stuff you don't need. In fact, acoustic treatment should be your no 1 priority! Go ahead and spend more money
Old 25th March 2010
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
Hi

Thanks. Yes I will be making a decision today and so far it's certainly the CL1B. I appreciate every piece of feedback.

I think I will also eliminate Summit because I really found it hard to connect with the Underdogs' vocal sound. Not sure why but to my ears, the musicality was always not there. I truly cannot blame the compressor for it but perhaps in my mind going for the safe(r) option.

I am curious to know more about the Sony C800G. What mic to vocalist distances do you typically use for pop? Ive have been doing 8"-12" but have noticed that <8" actually is generally nicer and it hits that sweet spot.
if you wanna know the EXACT (former group-> they are no longer partners) "Underdogs" chain I can tell you via PM. I was sworn to secrecy by one of their acquantainces to not divulge it publicly. And yes, it does include the Summit (hence why I tried it out and eventually bought it).
Old 25th March 2010
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Well you know. Plus I am so jealous that you have these mics, and pissed at the same time since you're tracking in an untreated space (I wouldn't call Auralex foam room treatment). All these things are stirring up a pot of anger that I just can't... Ahhhh

Please. You care about your clients, give them the best they can get, don't take their money and spend it on stuff you don't need. In fact, acoustic treatment should be your no 1 priority! Go ahead and spend more money
Firstly thank you for all the advise. I appreciate anything that comes my way but obviously take the good and leave out the not so. There are only 2 sides to this photo. I am not sure how you made the conclusion that I dont have proper fiber panels on the other sides? Can you see the ceiling?
Oh and next, can I see your room, in all fairness? Since you are being wise buddha preaching and all, how about you show me your set up? I listened to your 'production's and for me, they didnt do anything. However, props to you, you are doing your thing and thats what matters.

Ok.. However here is another point. Since you want to take a dig you have done it on the picture and you just completely shot yourself again. FYI, the vocals you hear on the 1st song are recorded in a prominent studio in Los Angeles in the valley and not my room. I never claimed they are recorded in this room. I was looking for feedback on my production. Can you atleast try and guess the size of my room in terms of square feet and shape by the pics? Dude I get a damn fine sound in my room. You may hear a song or 2 in the clubs some time soon.

The idea of you wanting to check out my work was to give me feedback on me as a "producer" since you called me that, and not an engineer as I told you I am not the greatest engineer. Then you go and pick on the 'air' in the room...Nice!! How about pick on the smell in the room too?
You have given me NO feedback on the music. If you dont like the music, say it. But If you are jealous of stuff and keep PM-ing me saying 'You are only Jealous' of my set up, then dont get on here and diss the room that the vocals were tracked in, because you have absolutely nothing else to pick on.

Also, thanks so much for your advise on what I should invest my money into. Next thing you are going to say, dont buy a house in LA, go to Toronto cuz LA sucks, dont buy a car because Public transportation is the only way etc. Id like to think I know how to manage my money. I just want to have a versatile 'chain' that I can also carry to other studios. My studio is not even a commercial studio and it pays well dude. I have not even gone down that route as yet.

Final word to you, hopefully for good, is that don't be a jealous person. Dont be pissed because someone else is up on one or two material things. It's so obvious and it's so ugly. Work hard, get to the top, make the money and then spend the money wisely. Oh, and in the meantime, find some employment for others so you make them happier in life. Once again, please do not PM me on the side telling me "I am jealous you got a mic" and come out on the forum and act tough and diss the 2 sides of the room you see. If you are jealous, just dont be but say you want to try it out and maybe if you are nice, I would have let you use it. Instead you are the polar opposite. You just sound so jealous, frustrated and angry man... why not brush that stuff and clense...then provide advise with an open heart and better delivery ? too hard?...oh..

By the way, since you initially wanted to do a shootout before even finding out about my room being good or bad, or even my work, also tells me you create some serious pictures in your head without actually knowing the circumstances..

I can now imagine if one of your clients hit a bad note when they are singing or something and you just smashing their heads in for it....LOL...
Old 25th March 2010
  #86
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Before you spend money on a tracking compressor, I strongly suggest you invest in a GIK package to cover all your bases. What I really hate most of all is someone who owns high quality mics but invests nothing in acoustic treatment, this is one of the things that pisses me off the most, especially since you have clients who pay for your services. I sure wouldn't record vox in a studio if it didn't have a great vocal tracking room, nevermind the mics. The Mics and the singer are only half the battle, next is... Well you know. Plus I am so jealous that you have these mics, and pissed at the same time since you're tracking in an untreated space (I wouldn't call Auralex foam room treatment). All these things are stirring up a pot of anger that I just can't... Ahhhh

Please. You care about your clients, give them the best they can get, don't take their money and spend it on stuff you don't need. In fact, acoustic treatment should be your no 1 priority! Go ahead and spend more money
Can only imagine how autotune would handle your rage...
Old 25th March 2010
  #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaphappy View Post
Can only imagine how autotune would handle your rage...
Old 25th March 2010
  #88
Registered User
 

+ autotune =
Old 25th March 2010
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaphappy View Post
+ autotune =
SH..LOL.... I am thinking Angry CL has actually lost some potential friends and respect today...
Old 25th March 2010
  #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
SH..LOL.... I am thinking Angry CL has actually lost some potential friends and respect today...
Unfortunately I don't care heh
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