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Sony C800G based vocal chains Condenser Microphones
Old 24th March 2010
  #31
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Howard Benson

Oh.. as an FYI to all (you probably all knew this)..... I got this from an article...HB on Daughtry...

Benson's immediate choice for Chris' distinctive vocal was his trusty Sony C-800G large-diaphragm condenser, which he coupled with a classic Quad-Eight mic preamp and a sparingly-utilized Tube Tech CL 1B compressor recorded straight to Pro Tools|HD. “It's a great pop vocal mic with a lot of top end and brightness,” explains Benson of his mic selection. “I use that mic a lot. We've gone through so many shootouts that we've got it down to two microphones: it's almost always a (Telefunken) 251 or the Sony. With mic preamps, we go back and forth between the Neve 1081 when we want a warmer sound and the Quad because it's very present.”

Benson insists that, especially for vocals geared toward pop radio airplay, the Sony simplifies the job of his mixers. “I know Chris Lord-Alge (the mixer for Daughtry), Tom Lord-Alge and Andy Wallace — when these albums are mixed, they go for the sibilance. I give it to them so they don't have to EQ it in.”
Old 24th March 2010
  #32
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sony 800 > Neve 1073 Original > Chandler TG1 > PRO TOOLS
Old 24th March 2010
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
...for vocals geared toward pop radio airplay, the Sony simplifies the job of his mixers. “I know Chris Lord-Alge (the mixer for Daughtry), Tom Lord-Alge and Andy Wallace — when these albums are mixed, they go for the sibilance. I give it to them so they don't have to EQ it in.”
What does he mean there? Should I replace his wording "sibilance" with "high end" or "sharpness"? Then it would make more sense to me..
Old 24th March 2010
  #34
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So, I just don't get why people are still spending, what? $8k on a mic when Peluso makes their own version for a truly reasonable price?

Peluso vacuum tube, peluso, vacum tube, peluso tube
Old 24th March 2010
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXDigi View Post
and really knows where she wants to go.
Mediocrity? heh
Old 24th March 2010
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik View Post
So, I just don't get why people are still spending, what? $8k on a mic when Peluso makes their own version for a truly reasonable price?

Peluso vacuum tube, peluso, vacum tube, peluso tube
I had both and it's not even close... the manley Ref C would be much closer in sound "style"
Old 24th March 2010
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik View Post
So, I just don't get why people are still spending, what? $8k on a mic when Peluso makes their own version for a truly reasonable price?

Peluso vacuum tube, peluso, vacum tube, peluso tube
For my own reference, I did a shootout with Peluse, Wunder CM7 etc and I hate to say it but for my use, Peluso Sucked!!!! not the bottle but the 2247LE... it did not sound right on some of the pop voices I tried out. It also felt very Chinese!!! hola...
Old 24th March 2010
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
There was a shootout a long time ago with the VTB vs c800g, and it was not contest, the c800g sounded much better, way more smoother, while the other mic truly sounded like paperweight.

I'll be in LA soon so I asked the OP if I could go to his studio and do a vocal shootout. I'll probably bring an sm7a and my JZ BH-2 but we'll see. It depends if he wants to do it!
When was the last time you heard an 800g into a 1073, then sang into the VTB going into a manley mono? I preferred the manley/vtb chain...by far...plus...you can't get up on the 800g, it just can't handle it...Peluso's capsules can take you wailing right up on them, so there's your difference...seriously guys, try that combo out...I pretty much take my manley mono everywhere, been loving it over original Neve stuff for numerous vocal styles...try it, I don't BS...lol
Old 24th March 2010
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
For my own reference, I did a shootout with Peluse, Wunder CM7 etc and I hate to say it but for my use, Peluso Sucked!!!! not the bottle but the 2247LE... it did not sound right on some of the pop voices I tried out. It also felt very Chinese!!! hola...
With what preamp did you try these on? Have you tried the actual Peluso VTB with a Manley or a La Chapelle or a Mercury? You won't be dissapointed, trust me...
Old 24th March 2010
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
Interesting. Thanks. Did you try out other compressors in the process and you narrowed it down for the project? Interesting with the 737.. yeah I hear on the smoothness for Mariah but didnt work on it for certain other voices. Seems as if the C800G is famous for the top end hiss. I agree that it is for certain voices and can be actually annoying with a few voices. However, it works so well with other voice.
Thanks!!

ps. can I ask what synth controller is on your signature? looks cool.. Axiom?
Hey. I also used an 1176 and it worked fine, I just preferred the distressor mostly because I really dig the 2nd harmonic distortion and HP setting. It was more flexible and seemed to work well for all sources. I have also used a Summit TLA100 with the same chain and it was great. I didn't have a ton of other choices.

Maybe I am dumb, but I don't associate certain mics with compressors. Its more of a source thing for me. I find the relationship between pre and mic to be way more important. I also ran the c800 thru an API and was also put down by the over fizziness.


PS. Yup its an axiom. Not my hand though.
Old 24th March 2010
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville View Post
Learn how it works, and work it.
completely hijacking this thread , its the first time I've seen Nadia Boulanger quoted on GS ... Great !
Old 24th March 2010
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik View Post
So, I just don't get why people are still spending, what? $8k on a mic when Peluso makes their own version for a truly reasonable price?

Peluso vacuum tube, peluso, vacum tube, peluso tube
Marketing!!! It's rarely the case with audio gear that you get more then what you pay for. Unless i can demo both side by side, I would imagine that the C800 would win quite handily. Might have similar characteristics.

I do think the c800 is overpriced. Should be $5k at the most.
Old 24th March 2010
  #43
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3. other chains you prefer.

I think the brauner vm1 is the greatest mic of all time. My favorite chain ever is vm1>1081>buzz essence.
Old 24th March 2010
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u View Post
3. My favorite chain ever is vm1>1081>buzz essence.
Nice one...I'd prob switch out the Buzz for a Retro Sta Level tho...maybe even, believe it or not, the Demaria 1000C/L....nice comp...
Old 24th March 2010
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
I've never used the VTB with a manley mono, I only use the 1073 in the studio (or my MA5 at home). I try to keep it as simple as I can honestly (with pres).
If you get a chance, try it!! Perfectly smokin setup.

I know that 1073 is most people's desert island pre, but seriously, have you heard a fully modded 7602 with Carnhill(St. Ives) trannies and all? I know it's prob a sore subject for those that paid the $3k for the real thing, but I'm just saying, I've heard em side by side with barefoot mains and prism conversion. It's seriously jaw dropping what a simple $299 mod can do to a layout cloned from an original.

On the other hand, my Manley Mono seems to be able to do just about anything, with input gain varying not only gain, but color, tone and I understand also, slew rate, the tonal capabilities are endless. My AR51 into it are nothing short of stunning.
Old 24th March 2010
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik View Post
With what preamp did you try these on? Have you tried the actual Peluso VTB with a Manley or a La Chapelle or a Mercury? You won't be dissapointed, trust me...
I have a Sony C800G man.. I have no intention on selling it any sooner. Also, I hate to say it, but in LA, it gets me more business just saying that to RnB/Pop singers that I got the Dre or 50c or Michael Jackson or Mariah Mic... they all flock to it.. Not sure if Peluso can be advertized that way. Just like having SSL and doing the mix ITB.. lol... seriously though, I have a 1073, ISA430MK1 and Demeter VTMP-2A. I am sure it may sound great with a Manley etc., but its pretty good for me at the moment. Im trying to get the Comp set up sorted
Old 24th March 2010
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post

I'll be in LA soon so I asked the OP if I could go to his studio and do a vocal shootout.
Hey man
Got your pm. I will hit you back.
I also have a C12VR and a CAD VX2 and should be able to get a Manley Ref C and maybe a couple more mics from Vintage King as well. My neighbor has a few mics too, including SM7..
I should also have a CL1B by then ..maybe Retro 176..---speaking of which, has anyone tried a Sony C800G+1073+Retro 176 chain for Pop/Rnb/Rock-Pop?
I will get back at ya man and thanks for the suggestion.
Old 24th March 2010
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
I have a Sony C800G man.. I have no intention on selling it any sooner. Also, I hate to say it, but in LA, it gets me more business just saying that to RnB/Pop singers that I got the Dre or 50c or Michael Jackson or Mariah Mic... they all flock to it.. Not sure if Peluso can be advertized that way. Just like having SSL and doing the mix ITB.. lol... seriously though, I have a 1073, ISA430MK1 and Demeter VTMP-2A. I am sure it may sound great with a Manley etc., but its pretty good for me at the moment. Im trying to get the Comp set up sorted
The highest selling album of all time, Thriller, was done on a $350 sm7b my friend....

If you want a comp that's easy to use and sounds great on lead vocals, try the Retro Sta Level. If you've got an extra $500, do the 176, it's what CLA is using on his lead vocals these days...unless the ads are really that far behind...I personally like the STA Level though, puts em right up front and doesn't have too much bite, keeps things smooth. Plenty of iron in the signal path too, so you def get back some of the body that th C800 doesn't have...but in a sexier way if you can feel me on that...
Old 24th March 2010
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
The thing is, I don't think a mic will bring more clients, well it might, but it's not what brings them that is the most important, it's what keeps them coming back again and again that does. Clients have never asked me if I had a certain microphone.

In fact, as much as I want one, it's really a One trick pony, where sometimes the U87 performs better or a U47. I actually prefer a U47 for female vox over the c800g, depending on the style. If it's pop, I'll certainly go with the U47 first, if it's more RNB, I'll try the c800g but I'll always have another mic just in case.
Well. I have to respectfully disagree about the client thing. The idea in marketing any business is to talk about what you can do and what tools you have and if they dont know it, make them relate to it. Ofcourse not every artist (except Kelly Clarkson as mentioned before.... well that makes my point clear already) is going to 'ask' what mic you use, but in my opinion, I tell them about it and make them relate to it based on their voice. I can tell you that when I speak to hiphop cats and pop even, i tell them all about the mic, only after they have contacted me based on the music on my website/s and some of my very minor credits. Its another deal maker really for me with certain artists. They all take photos etc and no, I dont compromise on product in anyway, but its pure marketing. The Sony has nearly paid itself off within a week of purchasing it.

As for all the mics and you knowing so much on the mics, I am then unsure why you want to do a shootout? you seem to know alot about these mics, so why a shootout on a Mic that you claim is a one trick pony? what are the chances of it working on your voice then?

Last edited by CJ1973; 24th March 2010 at 06:41 AM.. Reason: deal maker not breaker :)
Old 24th March 2010
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik View Post
The highest selling album of all time, Thriller, was done on a $350 sm7b my friend....

.
Totally agree man. Im a huge fan of MJ, Quincy and Bruce Swedien myself. Also Toto who played on it. Except for the Mic, all are very expensive purchases and services on the album.

Point being, it worked on MJ. Doesnt mean it will work on everyone, or expensive mics would never have been made. Michael then used the C800G on nearly every other record he made and frankly, I thought he sounded better in his later albums (Bad, Dangerous, History), even though as an album and phenomenon, Thriller was just THE BOMB! Listen to Teddy Riley's work on 'Dangerous' and Michaels Vocals on it. Its amazing!
Old 24th March 2010
  #51
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I feel most of the replies here are sincere so let me just state my sincere honest opinion: C800g is a great mic. It has a sound. That is why its great. My chain: MP2NV>TubeTCl1b>800g. Sweet. Like really sweet.
Old 24th March 2010
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngmain View Post
I feel most of the replies here are sincere so let me just state my sincere honest opinion: C800g is a great mic. It has a sound. That is why its great. My chain: MP2NV>TubeTCl1b>800g. Sweet. Like really sweet.
Cool chain. Thanks. I always wanted to try the Millenia and infact may try that for sure. Can I ask what style of music you use it with typically and voices? Can I ask how significant of a role the CL1B plays in your chain?
Thanks,
Old 24th March 2010
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post

I honestly think that marketing studio services based on a mic is pretty lame lol.

Especially for rock, the sm7 has been a godsend.
Well lame or not, its business. Music business is tough as it is, so honestly, I think Im doing an okay job making a living out of it (a better living than I was being a Civil Engineer....now u get.. the nerd in me is what searches for the ultimate answers..lol.. sorry bout that.. then again, Howard Benson was an Aeronautical Engineer too...so I have some hope..lol)
There are alot of lame things in life and frankly, i think talking about the gear I use and being honest about it with clients (and selling it) is probably the least lamest thing. Considering a tonne of people advertise 'SSL studios' or "PTHD studios'.. same thing man. I agree it is the engineer but as someone said, the better tools do make life alot easier and bring in clients, that otherwise may not have come my way.

I have not tried a SM7 but my neighbor has a few mics himself, including the SM7, and I am sure he will be down to the test too....

ps. pics.. lol.. lovin it... dontcha think the C800g looks the best? ... the other is a Wunder CM7 GT and obviously the most hated on GS C12VR..lol...I had a comment on the C800g.. "man it looks like a Uzi-9mm"....lol.. some client !... oh and I gota add to that... this client is so crazy his management is talking with possibly Snoop coming by and doing a part on one of his songs...(funny shi8 ha!!!)..yup at my little crib!.
Attached Thumbnails
Sony C800G based vocal chains-c800g.jpg   Sony C800G based vocal chains-booth-2.jpg   Sony C800G based vocal chains-john-ray-booth.jpg  

Last edited by CJ1973; 24th March 2010 at 07:14 AM.. Reason: pics.
Old 24th March 2010
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
What's your website? I would (And I'm sure others too) like to hear some of your work.

Nice booth by the way, I bet the mic sounds real nice in it heh (ps: Ain't about looks, it's the sound that counts, aren't you an audio engineer?)

This thread is ridiculous, it's mostly about some kid who basically wants to feel validated about his purchase, and I have a big feeling that I don't think he even knows how to use it lol. Ridiculous thread honestly. I love this mic, but this is just too ridiculous for me heh

Don't make me hate this mic, I love it too much to get it ruined by a clueless wannabe producer! Actually I think I know what it's about, it's about a rich kid who doesn't know what to do with his money so he buys gear and then boast about the gear he has in order to give himself credibility... It's pathetic! K I'm done here
dude.. didn't you just ask to come by his place?

And then you insult him by calling him "a clueless wannabe producer", "rich kid", etc..

...next time, first measure the foot before you try to stuff in mouth... may be too big to swallow.
Old 24th March 2010
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
What's your website? I would (And I'm sure others too) like to hear some of your work.
Don't make me hate this mic, I love it too much to get it ruined by a clueless wannabe producer! Actually I think I know what it's about, it's about a rich kid who doesn't know what to do with his money so he buys gear and then boast about the gear he has in order to give himself credibility... It's pathetic! K I'm done here
Wow.. are you sure you are not on some type of music medication..lol..
You just flipped on me man.. whats up with that? No im no rich kid just because I work very hard, yes its 1:45am and I am mp3-ing an instrumental to a client... and earn every dime.. so no rich kid here... as the previous post said, didn't you want to come by my studio? Did I not acknowledge that? just because we have difference of opinions about how to run a business, you get all personal. Why cannot you play a fair game and just respect others' idealogies and thoughts. To be honest I am disappointed in myself for actually hoping to get you mixing work which I have some right now and since you PM'd me for work a few weeks ago, I was going to hit you up. I guess we all live and learn and yes I love the Sony, just like so many folks here do....and No, I am not an audio engineer.. incase you didnt read the posts before. I am a pianist, classical and jazz... i produce music, i can play most instruments, write melody, lyrics and I have music out on TV that won Emmy..i composed the theme song and all..and yes that pays. minor credits compared to alot of top cats out here but still valid credits. AUdio engineering is an extension of what I do but clearly not my forte, hence my search to have enough knowledge to track and edit but aquire skilled engineers to mix my work that have good budgets...i also respect great engineers because it's a skill that I do not have and wish I did. Employing and delegating, again, is just a business model...simply put, it gets others paid while I get paid as well.. To be in this position, one has to be somewhat strong in the business approach he or she takes in music biz. Cheers! ps. Thanks. Yes my room is real nice. I designed it. Got advise from Steven Klein here in Sherman Oaks. Bought every part myself and built it with help from contractors so yes, hard work. Its permitted too.
Old 24th March 2010
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
dude.. didn't you just ask to come by his place?

And then you insult him by calling him "a clueless wannabe producer", "rich kid", etc..

...next time, first measure the foot before you try to stuff in mouth... may be too big to swallow.
Thank you
Old 24th March 2010
  #57
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don't hate

you may not like her music but one thing she isn't is mediocre.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Mediocrity? heh
Old 24th March 2010
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
...ooh.. did you say Summit? Can I ask what styles of music you typically use this mic on and how frequent? have you tried it on other preamps and compressors?
this was the underdogs vox chain. works best for pop/rnb

ej
Old 24th March 2010
  #59
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inthere's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
Hi
Thank you. I have never worked with an STT-1 before, but if you were to compare any other Preamps, could you find a close relative?
I have a Focusrite ISA430 MK1, Neve 1073DPA and a Demeter VTMP-2A myself but unsure how close these would be to an STT-1.
Does the STT-1 add a dark color to the vocal and perhaps even take away some of the top end?
Hmmm, if you want i can pm you a mix with the chain and you can compare it with your chain. Comparing preamps is not my specialty.
Old 24th March 2010
  #60
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Congrats CJ on finally getting an "A" list mic!

Do you think the C12VR will ever come out of it's case again?



P.S. To the skeptics: I have heard CJ's music, he's way talented and really does need a mic like this to compete with the established producers in his genre.
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