The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Are pultecs being used for mastering duties or more for tracking or mixdown? Equalisers (HW)
Old 21st March 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Are pultecs being used for mastering duties or more for tracking or mixdown?

What are people using Pultecs mostly on?

Debating whether a stereo Pultec is a justified purchase.
Old 21st March 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Tracking, mixing, buses, mastering.

You can really use them for anything. It's just a very distinct, tone-thickening / sweetening thing. But it's like anything that uses transformers, it's not squeaky clean or without a noise floor.

Plus there's so many versions.

You should try the Waves Puig pultec plugins...and then rent some real ones after you get a feel for the controls maybe.

I tend to favor keeping the Bandwidths on "Broad" because of how the interact, but they can get pretty surgical when you slim the Q up.

Something like a Manley Massive Passive would be more surgical with it's Q controls and clean if you're looking for similar tools but less of an overt color. On a bus any of these will change the balance / tone by more than a bit just by being put in line before you mess with the controls...the Manley is no exception...but at least that's a bit quieter / more subtle.

That being said I've had the Manley make a whole mix feel like it was re-tracked in a better studio before.

I would definitely use these kinds of tools a lot before buying anything. They are more of a hindrance than a help if you don't know how to use them. The temptation to over EQ to unmusical points can be great and is easy to do. Also I don't view Pultecs in any revision or cloned incarnation as being a cheap investment.
Old 21st March 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Bubbakron's Avatar
 

Is the "Atten" knob like a Q knob on a parametric? It seems like its an EQ that is like HP or LP knobs on preamps, is that a fair description?
Old 21st March 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
No. The Atten knob cuts freqs. The Boost pushes them.

The middle knob that has the words "Sharp" and "Broad" shortens / widens the Q on BOTH the High and Low Band.

It's a program EQ that does lows and Highs...the Manley works on all bands and has filters, so that's why it's really it's own thing to me and not a pultec clone so much as initially inspired by them.

That being said, real vintage one in good repair can sound magic. But like everything from that era there are tons of revisions.

I would still start with the plug versions to learn how the controls are supposed to interact. The bands are EXTREMELY interactive and it takes ear training to really get the most out of those units.
Old 21st March 2010
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
No. The Atten knob cuts freqs. The Boost pushes them.

The middle knob that has the words "Sharp" and "Broad" shortens / widens the Q on BOTH the High and Low Band.

It's a program EQ that does lows and Highs...the Manley works on all bands and has filters, so that's why it's really it's own thing to me and not a pultec clone so much as initially inspired by them.

That being said, real vintage one in good repair can sound magic. But like everything from that era there are tons of revisions.

I would still start with the plug versions to learn how the controls are supposed to interact. The bands are EXTREMELY interactive and it takes ear training to really get the most out of those units.

good stuff,

ok as far as plugins go and without starting a riot ; )
which one sounds the best.. i have uad and ik pultec
to start with.. but not waves or any others

thanks
Old 21st March 2010
  #6
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
I really like the Waves Puig one more than the UAD...but neither sound like a real one.

They just give you a similar Q control, push and cutting attenuation with a doctored tone that tries to mimic the size and girth of the real thing.

The waves one, even though I'm not into spending every nickle and dime on everything they release, really feels a lot more "life-like" in response when you twist a knob...plus you can twist multiple knobs with a drag and click...like using two hands.

Again, the bandwidths on both the lows and the highs are EXTREMELY interactive, so this feature makes the Puig much closer to the real deal by default.

I mix with the waves one on a daily basis...but I also use the Manley everyday...if I had a real Pultec I'm sure it'd fit in the mix.

They're all useful.
Old 21st March 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
One more thing.

Like a preamp with a stepped gain knob and an additional attenuator knob...

Or a channel strip with a preamp trim pot and a fader...

The Boost and Atten knobs on both the High and Low side are interactive for gain-staging your EQing just like you would a raw signal.

This is the chief difference to me in the concept between a pultec and the Massive...since the massive can boost OR attenuate on each band...but you can't do both to find in-between sounds. Though you have way more headroom to push or cut musically on the massive and you get mid and low mid bands and filters...so...again...just to reiterate...I like them all.
Old 21st March 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Bubbakron's Avatar
 

From reading it seems that one of the reasons the manley sounds so unique, is that it has no Output transformer. I wonder if I got an old vintage pultec style transformer, then put it at the end of the manley enhanced pultec - it might sound close to a really old pultec. Because of the age of the tranny!! mmmmm....



Are pultecs ever used on mastering or 2bus??
Old 21st March 2010
  #9
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Howie Weinberg has a pair of Pultecs that have been in his mastering rig for at least 25 years [the first time he mastered a record I did was about 25 or so years ago... they may have been there longer, but that was the first time I saw them]... this was back before CD's were "the norm"... he was using them on the way to vinyl records!!
Old 21st March 2010
  #10
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Maybe =)

Personally, I really love how the Massive sounds as is. Now that I understand it, it's a tone I rely on.

I'm curious about the A-Designs stuff too...but I want a hardware vintage Pultec style EQ first.

The 500 Series JLM PEQ500 has been the closest to the real thing I've tried as far as clones...but it's again, not as "big" in the stereo spectrum.

I'm very curious about the Retro 2A3, Calrec, and Pulse technologies stuff...by process of elimination I've come to those units...though Amtec EQ's are fantastic sounding as well. (Just more modern / clear sounding...somewhere between a real pultec and Manley Massive Passive sonically to me)

The JLM's are interesting, but I'm not going 500 series this year or next...so... =/
Old 21st March 2010
  #11
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Howie Weinberg has a pair of Pultecs that have been in his mastering rig for at least 25 years [the first time he mastered a record I did was about 25 or so years ago... they may have been there longer, but that was the first time I saw them]... this was back before CD's were "the norm"... he was using them on the way to vinyl records!!
And he's also a total pro who keeps 'em maintained I bet. =)

I'm telling you Fletcher, I'm jealous everyday of your generation...some things will always be magic. Also thanks for that reply in my vacation thread. I really appreciated that.
Old 21st March 2010
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
The middle knob that has the words "Sharp" and "Broad" shortens / widens the Q on BOTH the High and Low Band.
The Q knob effects only the HF boost band, which is a bell shape. The LF band is a shelf. The HF cut band is a shelf as well.
Old 21st March 2010
  #13
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
The Q knob effects only the HF boost band, which is a bell shape. The LF band is a shelf. The HF cut band is a shelf as well.
I stand corrected... And in fact like learning something new...so...thanks!

But that doesn't change the fact that all bands are interactive on the unit...you mess with one knob you mess with 'em all.
Old 21st March 2010
  #14
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
I'm jealous everyday of your generation...
Don't be.

Most of us are old, fat, gray & or losing or have lost our hair... are in ****ty health [as all those fun drugs we did before they became addictive are catching up to us].

In the past 30 days I've lost like 3 or 4 friends [in other words, our "generation" is starting to drop like flies]... we also got to watch an industry we loved better than family implode and rot before our eyes.

Better to listen to the war stories, define your own thing... and hopefully take better care of yourself than we did.

I'm on the trailing edge of that generation so I'm not quite as old, fat or bald as a lot of them... but if life expectancy for the "generation" I'm from is mid-50's to early 60's... its good I did my "mid-life crisis" in my early - mid 30's.

Peace.
Old 21st March 2010
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Ben F's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbakron View Post
From reading it seems that one of the reasons the manley sounds so unique, is that it has no Output transformer. I wonder if I got an old vintage pultec style transformer, then put it at the end of the manley enhanced pultec - it might sound close to a really old pultec. Because of the age of the tranny!! mmmmm....



Are pultecs ever used on mastering or 2bus??
The Manley has output transformers on the balanced outputs, or you can by pass them on the un balanced outs which I think sounds better.
Old 21st March 2010
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
I really like the Waves Puig one more than the UAD...but neither sound like a real one.

They just give you a similar Q control, push and cutting attenuation with a doctored tone that tries to mimic the size and girth of the real thing.

The waves one, even though I'm not into spending every nickle and dime on everything they release, really feels a lot more "life-like" in response when you twist a knob...plus you can twist multiple knobs with a drag and click...like using two hands.

Again, the bandwidths on both the lows and the highs are EXTREMELY interactive, so this feature makes the Puig much closer to the real deal by default.

I mix with the waves one on a daily basis...but I also use the Manley everyday...if I had a real Pultec I'm sure it'd fit in the mix.

They're all useful.
great, thanks a lot, it seems waves have been killing it
even on the youtube wars.. but uad still have some monsters thats for sure.
i want to get it all eventually.

oh. one more thing if you don't mind.
how would you use a pultec or manley anything else for that matter as a LPF on master bus to get rid of unwanted digital brights ?
Old 21st March 2010
  #17
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
The manley has a LPF, I leave it pretty much dead set at 18K.

But...tracking and mixing is where unwanted high end should really be eliminated. Mic selection and technique will dictate that way more. Dynamic mics are great for rounding out transients that sound unpleasant.

Also, stop pushing 1K in instruments and voices that have a lot of it naturally...maybe cut sibilant freqs more often instead...(6K-9K) and boost more around 10K...

1K being abused is something I hear in almost all myspace style bedroom recordings. It's beyond annoying.
Old 21st March 2010
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Bubbakron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Don't be.

Most of us are old, fat, gray & or losing or have lost our hair... are in ****ty health [as all those fun drugs we did before they became addictive are catching up to us].

In the past 30 days I've lost like 3 or 4 friends [in other words, our "generation" is starting to drop like flies]... we also got to watch an industry we loved better than family implode and rot before our eyes.

Better to listen to the war stories, define your own thing... and hopefully take better care of yourself than we did.

I'm on the trailing edge of that generation so I'm not quite as old, fat or bald as a lot of them... but if life expectancy for the "generation" I'm from is mid-50's to early 60's... its good I did my "mid-life crisis" in my early - mid 30's.

Peace.
You guys still managed to put out more amazing music than we do today even with all this new technology. You would think there would be even more fantastic stuff out today knowing a low end set up is only a few hundred bucks and a laptop. There was some thing special of yester year that we so deperatley need even just a little of today.

PLus when trying to tune an emt plate and trying to get a studer just tensioned, I often wonder how the hell you guys even did it all- it must have been very difficult. There is a lot to appreciate, especially compared to our current environment!!!!!!!!
Old 21st March 2010
  #19
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbakron View Post
I wonder if I got an old vintage pultec style transformer, then put it at the end of the manley enhanced pultec - it might sound close to a really old pultec. Because of the age of the tranny!! mmmmm....
it might sound nice but I don't think that will transform the Manley into an eqp1a

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbakron View Post
Are pultecs ever used on mastering or 2bus??
yes.
I do it all the time when that sound is appropriate .
sometimes no eq just the line amp sound.
same w/ the Fearns and Retro.
Old 21st March 2010
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
The manley has a LPF, I leave it pretty much dead set at 18K.

But...tracking and mixing is where unwanted high end should really be eliminated. Mic selection and technique will dictate that way more. Dynamic mics are great for rounding out transients that sound unpleasant.

Also, stop pushing 1K in instruments and voices that have a lot of it naturally...maybe cut sibilant freqs more often instead...(6K-9K) and boost more around 10K...

1K being abused is something I hear in almost all myspace style bedroom recordings. It's beyond annoying.
cool.. that makes too much sense, thanks a million

so i should get the manley then ; )

or the trident ? actually, i get just about the same results from the neve eqs as a the trident. am i crazy ??
Old 21st March 2010
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
The manley has a LPF
I don't mean to keep correcting you, but I believe the high cut is actually a shelf, not a LPF.

Sorry, don't mean to be a wise-acre.
Old 21st March 2010
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrusboy7 View Post
cool.. that makes too much sense, thanks a million

so i should get the manley then ; )

or the trident ? actually, i get just about the same results from the neve eqs as a the trident. am i crazy ??
Every Pultec EQP1A clone has that same high cut shelf, so Manley is not the only option (although I quite like it; the extra EQ points are very, very useful).

Trident won't sound anything like a Pultec (or any of its clones), nor should it sound much like a Neve (at least not any of the Neve modules I'm familiar with).

That said, the LPF on the Neves are quite nice, if that's what you're after. On the (much) cheaper end of things, Harrisons are well-regarded for their filters.

EDIT: oops, just realized you were talking about plugins. My bad.
Old 21st March 2010
  #23
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I don't mean to keep correcting you, but I believe the high cut is actually a shelf, not a LPF.

Sorry, don't mean to be a wise-acre.
Oh thanks..i though they meant sorta the same thing ?

and for the feedback
Old 21st March 2010
  #24
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I don't mean to keep correcting you, but I believe the high cut is actually a shelf, not a LPF.

Sorry, don't mean to be a wise-acre.
Nope!

I own one...so I can tell you that there are stepped-fixed point HPF's and LPF's one each channel as well as the option of Shelf or Bell curves on every individual band.

And I don't see you as a wise-acre! =p

But there are Filters, google the manual, that's one of my favorite parts of that piece of kit.
Old 21st March 2010
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrusboy7 View Post
Oh thanks..i though they meant sorta the same thing ?
Nope, they're two different shapes with different sounds, strengths, and (depending on the design) weaknesses.
Old 21st March 2010
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
Nope!

I own one...so I can tell you that there are stepped-fixed point HPF's and LPF's as well as the option of Shelf or Bell curves on every individual band.

And I don't see you as a wise-acre! =p

But there are Filters, google the manual, that's one of my favorite parts of that piece of kit.
Just to be clear, are we talking about a Manley Massive Passive or a Manley Pultec?

Cuz my Manley Stereo Pultec doesn't have stepped-fixed point filters nor the option for shelf or bell curves on every band (unless I'm missing something really, reeeaaalllly huuuuuuuge...wouldn't be the first timeheh).
Old 21st March 2010
  #27
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Massive Passive...

I don't own the Stereo Pultec, but I have used it. =) That doesn't have the filters. Great piece though.
Old 21st March 2010
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
Massive Passive...

I don't own the Stereo Pultec, but I have used it. =) That doesn't have the filters. Great piece though.
Aha! OK, that makes sense now, glad that's cleared up. I was sitting here going, "man, I can't wait to get to work tomorrow to figure out those new features!"
Old 21st March 2010
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Just to be clear, are we talking about a Manley Massive Passive or a Manley Pultec?

Cuz my Manley Stereo Pultec doesn't have stepped-fixed point filters nor the option for shelf or bell curves on every band (unless I'm missing something really, reeeaaalllly huuuuuuuge...wouldn't be the first timeheh).
I believe we went into manley m/p after i mentioned UAD pultec
but im not sure now that you mentioned manley pultec

also, so if i use the uad pultec as high cut on master
i should use the Que knob ?

" Originally Posted by bgrotto
The Q knob effects only the HF boost band, which is a bell shape. The LF band is a shelf. The HF cut band is a shelf as well'
Old 21st March 2010
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrusboy7 View Post
I believe we went into manley m/p after i mentioned UAD pultec
but im not sure now that you mentioned manley pultec

also, so if i use the uad pultec as high cut on master
i should use the Que knob ?
Q knob does not effect the high cut (remember, it's a shelf).
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
RIZ Records / Rap + Hip Hop Engineering and Production
51
kyle barton / High End
4
James Lehmann / So Much Gear, So Little Time
19
Coldsnow / So Much Gear, So Little Time
10

Forum Jump
Forum Jump