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Mixing into a Fatso Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 2nd March 2012
  #31
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always_ending's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henge View Post
Hi Tobias. Just plug a send/return cable into the insert on the back of the fatso. Plug the send side of the cable into the input of your gain control. Plug the return of the cable into the output of your gain control. That's it! You now control the level via the gain control device.

Man I am trying this as well, and I have no idea what you just stated above!

Please help if possible. I am using the UBK Fatso and the TC Electronic Level Pilot as another forum user stated he does.

Are you stating that you only need one cable, running from the "output" of the "gain control" (Level Pilot in my case) to go into the insert (sidechain) of the Fatso's channel?

I tried this last night to no avail, no compression happening with it plugged in, but the second I pulled out the sidechain insert the comp kicked in plenty of GR.

I have taken the Level Pilot's left/right outputs (which are wired from factory as XLR) and wired it so that they are TRS 1/4" cables. Pin 2 tip, Pin 3 ring, Pin 1 sleeve.

Is this wrong? It has to be because it obviously didn't work.....

do I need to be feeding a signal INTO the level pilot as well, and if so, where should that signal come from? Does that matter?

I am so confused and about lost my mind last night trying to figure this out, soldering all kinds of crap, etc.... PLEASE help!
Old 2nd March 2012
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by always_ending View Post
Man I am trying this as well, and I have no idea what you just stated above!

Please help if possible. I am using the UBK Fatso and the TC Electronic Level Pilot as another forum user stated he does.

Are you stating that you only need one cable, running from the "output" of the "gain control" (Level Pilot in my case) to go into the insert (sidechain) of the Fatso's channel?

I tried this last night to no avail, no compression happening with it plugged in, but the second I pulled out the sidechain insert the comp kicked in plenty of GR.

I have taken the Level Pilot's left/right outputs (which are wired from factory as XLR) and wired it so that they are TRS 1/4" cables. Pin 2 tip, Pin 3 ring, Pin 1 sleeve.

Is this wrong? It has to be because it obviously didn't work.....

do I need to be feeding a signal INTO the level pilot as well, and if so, where should that signal come from? Does that matter?

I am so confused and about lost my mind last night trying to figure this out, soldering all kinds of crap, etc.... PLEASE help!
Hmm. Never tried it with the Level Pilot ( mine crapped out on me after a year!)
So try plugging in your insert cable to the fatsos insert. Send should go to an input on the LP, let's use the left side, and the left output should be plugged into the return.
Old 2nd March 2012
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henge View Post
Hmm. Never tried it with the Level Pilot ( mine crapped out on me after a year!)
So try plugging in your insert cable to the fatsos insert. Send should go to an input on the LP, let's use the left side, and the left output should be plugged into the return.
Are you using a Y split cable for this running out of the Fatso's insert for sidechain?

something like this?

Pro Co IPTBQXFXM10 (10') | Sweetwater.com

I have a Y split cable that goes from one TRS (which I would plug into the Fatso) to two mono TS's, will this work?

Quantum-Audio SY-1PPS, 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TS/TS Insert Cable, 1 Ft.

Mine is like the 2nd cable here.
Old 3rd March 2012
  #34
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DMichaelJohnson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Any old passive attenuator, such as the atty, will do just fine.

Or a crappy preamp you don't use any more.


Gregory Scott - ubk
In using the A Designs ATTY...if I understand the side chaining scenario correctly, doesn't one need two "Y" insert cables: TRS from Fatso insert 1 to a male/female XLR on the ATTY in and out and then another "Y" cable TRS from Fatso insert 2 to a male/female XLR on the other ATTY channel?

Thanks for all the help and input Greg
Old 3rd March 2012
  #35
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by henge View Post
I'm using a mackie pre off my onyx as my level control for the insert point on my ubk fatso. In linked mode the left insert controls the operating levels on both sides of the comp making it easy and accurate.



Hi Tobias. Just plug a send/return cable into the insert on the back of the fatso. Plug the send side of the cable into the input of your gain control. Plug the return of the cable into the output of your gain control. That's it! You now control the level via the gain control device.
sweet, just got this thing a few weeks ago and loving it.. been trying to figure out what the manual meant by this and how to connect it, I originally thought you just need a ballanced 1/4" cable and connect the inserts. I've got it connected to a channel on my Venice as described above and it works great! Another advantage to using a mixer like this is when I engage the EQ you can use it like a low pass filter on the detector circuit, or so it appears right now.

D
Old 3rd March 2012
  #36
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Ok, so now my issue is that I have gotten it to work, using a "Y cable" that is TRS (sitting in the insert of the UBK) that goes to two 1/4" mono cables. I have tried on a Boss EQ Stomp Pedal hooking both the 1/4" mono jacks in the "in/out" of the Boss Pedal and it works! It can use the gain on the pedal to change the threshold or I can use the EQ section of the graphic eq to filter out freqs for the comp to not grab.

Now my question is, in trying to then duplicate this with the TC Level Pilot using the same exact wiring setup I get nothing! No compression whatsoever, it's basically "bypassing" the entire comp section of the Fatso.

The ONLY difference in between these two items that I can think of that would make a difference in the signal is that one is "active" (the Boss pedal has it's own power thru 8v battery inside) and the other is "passive" (TC Level Pilot has no power to itself whatsoever).

So, why is it that I've read I can use a "passive gain control" for this, but when trying so myself I get nothing?

I would rather not use the Boss pedal, the volume is cumbersome to say the least (not a smooth pot fader at all) and it runs on battery power wasting 8v batteries away.

Am I SOL on the Level Pilot? What say anyone who's tried/uses a Level Pilot or ANY passive gain control?
Old 3rd March 2012
  #37
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DMichaelJohnson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by always_ending View Post
Are you using a Y split cable for this running out of the Fatso's insert for sidechain?

something like this?

Pro Co IPTBQXFXM10 (10') | Sweetwater.com
Yeah, 2 of these guys?
Old 3rd March 2012
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gie-Sound View Post
Yep, same here.
I'll use a Fatso sometimes on the mixbus. Tranny always off, and warmth pretty low (1 or 2 for me too).
I (almost) never use the Fatso (bus)compressor on the mixbus. For me it's just to give it that "mixing to tape"-touch. (although it's a bit different than the real thing).
Hi' can you compare fatso to distressor soundwise I know distressor is a versatile compressor but the sound, if you want that tape sound?

Some people says you better of with distressor because distressor get that fatso sound with a super hybrid compressor.
Old 3rd March 2012
  #39
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by always_ending View Post
Now my question is, in trying to then duplicate this with the TC Level Pilot using the same exact wiring setup I get nothing! No compression whatsoever, it's basically "bypassing" the entire comp section of the Fatso.

Well the first thing that strikes me is that the TC Level Pilot has XLR i/o, so it's not possible that you're using the same exact wiring setup. How are you converting the 1/4" TS on your Insert cable to XLR?

The second thing is an FYI, which is that many many people are successfully using the Level Pilot to control the sidechain of the UBK Fatso, so take heart: your troubles are simple and have only to do with the wiring/connections. When they're right, it'll work!

Last, you're getting no compression because you have created a 'dead patch'; iow, signal is leaving the UBK Fatso sidechain, but signal is not coming back. This is the same as having the device correctly inserted and turning it all the way down, the comp will do nothing.

Try to visualize what you're doing: there's a signal inside the UBK which is a copy of the input and which the sidechain circuit 'reads' to determine how the gain reduction cell should act on the actual input signal. The Insert jack is simply an interrupt, a way to re-route that copied signal out of the box so you can manipulate it before it hits the sidechain.

So that Insert jack sends the copied signal out, AND receives it back in, then passes it along to the sidechain. If that connection is improperly made, the sidechain sees no signal and tells the gain reduction circuit to do nothing.

You either have one (or both) of two problems in your setup: you have reversed the send and return of the Insert, and/or you have miswired something such that some part(s) of the cable(s) is/are not passing signal. Since you had the setup working with the guitar pedal, my guess is something is hinky with the conversion of the TS to XLR's going to the Level Pilot. Either that, or you simply hooked up the send to the TC output rather than to the input, and you hooked up the return to the TC input rather than the output.

Keep trying, it works and when you get it you'll be all smiles!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 3rd March 2012
  #40
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allure45 View Post
Hi' can you compare fatso to distressor soundwise I know distressor is a versatile compressor but the sound, if you want that tape sound?

They're both versatile compressors, but soundwise they're completely unalike. Distressor is modern, shiny, has bite, and pulls things forward and into sharp focus, helps them 'cut'. It sounds absolutely nothing like tape.

The UBK Fatso is vintage, thick, soft, blurry, and pushes things back and spreads them out. It has a lot in common with tape, and can be set to give tracks a tapey vibe, especially if you lean harder into the saturation with just a touch of compression and warmth limiting.

Tonally and texturally, they're quite different animals.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 4th March 2012
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Distressor is modern, shiny, has bite, and pulls things forward and into sharp focus, helps them 'cut'. It sounds absolutely nothing like tape.

The UBK Fatso is vintage, thick, soft, blurry, and pushes things back and spreads them out. ally and texturally, they're quite different animals.


Gregory Scott - ubk

Thanks Gregory!

is the ubk fatso modification of empirical labs version? it looks exact the same but different color also tonally.
Old 6th March 2012
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Well the first thing that strikes me is that the TC Level Pilot has XLR i/o, so it's not possible that you're using the same exact wiring setup. How are you converting the 1/4" TS on your Insert cable to XLR?

The second thing is an FYI, which is that many many people are successfully using the Level Pilot to control the sidechain of the UBK Fatso, so take heart: your troubles are simple and have only to do with the wiring/connections. When they're right, it'll work!

Last, you're getting no compression because you have created a 'dead patch'; iow, signal is leaving the UBK Fatso sidechain, but signal is not coming back. This is the same as having the device correctly inserted and turning it all the way down, the comp will do nothing.

Try to visualize what you're doing: there's a signal inside the UBK which is a copy of the input and which the sidechain circuit 'reads' to determine how the gain reduction cell should act on the actual input signal. The Insert jack is simply an interrupt, a way to re-route that copied signal out of the box so you can manipulate it before it hits the sidechain.

So that Insert jack sends the copied signal out, AND receives it back in, then passes it along to the sidechain. If that connection is improperly made, the sidechain sees no signal and tells the gain reduction circuit to do nothing.

You either have one (or both) of two problems in your setup: you have reversed the send and return of the Insert, and/or you have miswired something such that some part(s) of the cable(s) is/are not passing signal. Since you had the setup working with the guitar pedal, my guess is something is hinky with the conversion of the TS to XLR's going to the Level Pilot. Either that, or you simply hooked up the send to the TC output rather than to the input, and you hooked up the return to the TC input rather than the output.

Keep trying, it works and when you get it you'll be all smiles!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Hey Gregory thanks for replying here, I sent you an email when this site was down and hadn't heard back from you.

What I'm doing is taking the XLR jacks off the Level Pilot, and wiring pin 1 & 3 together (ring/sleeve) and soldering them to the sleeve/ground of the TS cables coming from the "Y"TRS-TS cables. I've always understood that those two wires should ground both and have the "tip" of the XLR connecting to the "tip" of the TS.

Is this incorrect?

Is there another way you can think of that I could try tonight?
Old 7th March 2012
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by always_ending View Post
Is there another way you can think of that I could try tonight?

Try 'floating' pin 3; iow, don't connect it to anything.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 7th March 2012
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Try 'floating' pin 3; iow, don't connect it to anything.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Sounds good man, I wouldn't have thought of it, but will definitely try today and report back.

In other news.... I F*N LOVE the Fatso!

I just recorded a singer/songwriter the other day with "smooth" on both channels. Ran vox through 1 and acoustic guitar through 2, no trafo.

I found that it really does "gel" tracks together, and really keeps them up front without sounding compressed at all! All the transients are still very rich and noticeable, but I can tell that it indeed does "soften" the top end of the freqs a bit. Just so happens that I recorded him with my Neumann TLM 103 stereo pair. Usually I agree with most people that these mics seem a bit "hyped" in higher freqs that's not always pleasant sounding. Hitting around 5-7 db reduction with "smooth" on I hear NONE of this that I usually hear! Brilliant! The Fatso literally just made these mics more useful to me and I will be using them more often now

I can't thank you enough for re-designing this box Greg!

Now I've just got one more problem..... the GAS I have! I want another Fatso by Kush Audio like yesterday! lol.

Peace and Love Greg ya hippie
Old 9th March 2012
  #45
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UPDATE for anyone wanting to use the UBK Kush Fatso with the TC Level Pilot.

Gregory Scott is correct (imagine that ) in that the way you get the connection to work is to not connect "pin 3" of the XLR in/outs of the Level Pilot.

I wired this way last night and it works flawless now, thank you Greg!

This is, as he's also stated, a MUST do if you own a Fatso... I don't know how you could possibly use this to track audio without having the threshold adjustment available to you to use with "smooth" setting on Fatso.

It does the trick, allows me to drive the "saturation" of the Fatso's input getting comfy and roasty, and only having 2-5 db GR happening. You can't even hear it working on most sources.

Now my only "worry" is that tracking with "smooth" on, I find that during the mix I really dont even need compression on many instruments now as they sit right and level enough (while allowing movement in the sources volume) that there's no need for additional compression... or at least that's what my ears heard last night.

Greg, can you tell me what you like to track with "smooth" on? I did an acoustic guitar and singer last night and it sounds amazing, but "worries" me that it doesn't sound like I need any more compression to keep dynamics level as they're good enough that they never "drop" out of the mix and sound more natural to my ears.... I'm like the kid on Super Troopers...

I'm freaking out maaaaaannn
Old 11th March 2012
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by always_ending View Post
Now my only "worry" is that tracking with "smooth" on, I find that during the mix I really dont even need compression on many instruments now as they sit right and level enough...

This is my experience as well, there's a lot to be said about gobbling up those <1ms transients before they hit the a/d converters, it's a million times easier to deal with things in the mix. It's what we always took for granted with tape, but now that tape is gone and there's a whole internet-forum-only dogma against printing with compression, people are struggling more than they need to.

I'm really glad you finally got the Level Pilot working, thanks for being persistent. I'm also glad you find it as essential as I do, the Sat on the UBK kicks ass and deserves its own control, which is why I did what I did with the UBK-1.

As for what I like to track with Smooth, the answer is 'anything that I want to be smooth in the mix.' Acoustic guitars and vocals are definitely at the top of the list, as are synths of all varieties. Things that need more transient pop I tend to track with Glue, and for whatever reason electric guitars seem to love Spank, something about the attack is just right.

Enjoy!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 13th March 2012
  #47
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DMichaelJohnson's Avatar
Pro Co IPTBQXFXM10 (10') | Sweetwater.com

Two of these guys?

One for each of the two channel inserts on the Fatso?

The XLR terminations work nicely tip send/ring receive and plug in to each of the two channels of the Level Pilot.

Is the right combo that pulls everything together here?

Sorry for a question that may be obvious to some.
Old 13th March 2012
  #48
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DMichaelJohnson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMichaelJohnson View Post
Pro Co IPTBQXFXM10 (10') | Sweetwater.com

Two of these guys?

One for each of the two channel inserts on the Fatso?

The XLR terminations work nicely tip send/ring receive and plug in to each of the two channels of the Level Pilot.

Is the right combo that pulls everything together here?

Sorry for a question that may be obvious to some.
Anyone? Just a nod? A thumbs up? A wink wink? Yes? No? Maybe?
Thank you~!
Old 13th March 2012
  #49
Gear Maniac
I believe so, except that you only need one cable plugged into the left channel which will affect both when linked for stereo operation. Doing two channels with that particular device is redundant as you only have one gain control for both channels anyway so you get to save $30 on a cable and just do it with one.

just wrote a nice review on this piece in the reviews section if you're interested.
Old 13th March 2012
  #50
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DMichaelJohnson's Avatar
Excellent! Thank you so much!
Old 13th March 2012
  #51
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DMichaelJohnson's Avatar
Good review too, thanks. That was very helpful info on the side chain insert only being needed on the left channel when in linked stereo mode. It really is a fun compressor to do as Greg says, "just turn the knobs". My TC Level Pilot arrives tomorrow~! All the best~
Old 13th March 2012
  #52
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMichaelJohnson View Post

It certainly *looks* right, but without knowing how it's wired I can't say if it'll work.

Well, I could say, but I'd be making it up.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 14th March 2012
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
It certainly *looks* right, but without knowing how it's wired I can't say if it'll work.

Well, I could say, but I'd be making it up.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Oh heck, you're probably right even when you make stuff up
Old 2nd June 2012
  #54
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Any old passive attenuator, such as the atty, will do just fine.

Or a crappy preamp you don't use any more.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Question, what about a simple DIY unbalanced "pot in a box"?

I am thinking a small box with 2x Pots (Left and Right). The box would have 2x TRS inputs. This would allow just 2x TRS cables to interface with the Fatso. The dual pot setup would allow control for each channel, say should someone want to tweak two different mono instrument tracks. Also be good for tuning the stereo response.

Seems like it should be a simple deal, but it would be great if someone would recommend a good pot and indicate if any other electronics parts would be needed to provide a fairly flat response curve across the usable range (for this purpose). I don't think the circuit needs to be flat all the way to Zero, but should be fairly transparent across the usable range when inserted into the Fatso sidechain.

Recommendations appreciated! Should be EZ to make, just haven't a clue as far as the volume circuit design and pot recommendation.
Old 2nd June 2012
  #55
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10k linear pots should do the trick.

Careful with TRS connectors, this is an unbalanced insert and wiring it to balanced connections will likely cause problems. You want TS in and out on your pot-in-a-box (love that name!), and you'll connect it to the Fatso with a TRS insert cable (which is TRS -> 2x TS).

Good luck!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 2nd June 2012
  #56
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Oldschoolwax's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcannava View Post
Gregory (UBK)
I just ordered the FATSO and the Clariphonic. I want to use the TC pilot in the insert of the FATSO.

Question: How do you float pin 3 as you prescribed?

Thanks!

Greg
Simply by leaving it unconnected, meaning only use 2(hot) and 1(gnd).
Old 3rd June 2012
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
Oldschoolwax's Avatar
 

Do it on your Y cable connections.
Old 3rd June 2012
  #58
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
10k linear pots should do the trick.

Careful with TRS connectors, this is an unbalanced insert and wiring it to balanced connections will likely cause problems. You want TS in and out on your pot-in-a-box (love that name!), and you'll connect it to the Fatso with a TRS insert cable (which is TRS -> 2x TS).

Good luck!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Thanks, 10k linear it is. My box would have 2x pots and 2x TRS jacks, one TRS jack per channel. That way a single TRS cable per channel would provide both send and return. That should work shouldn't it (rather than having to Y out to a pair of TS for each channel)? Thanks, Perry
Old 3rd June 2012
  #59
Gear Head
 

OK, made a Stereo Insert Volume controller.

Parts needed:
1x 1/4" TRS to TRS cable (length as needed for positioning your controller).
1x 10k Linear pot (Radio Shack $3.99).

Directions:
Cut one of the TRS jacks off the cable, save (as is, this is the dummy plug).
Strip the leads on your cable, then solder to 3 prongs of 10k pot (braided shield goes on an outside lug).

Stereo controller is now built.

Insert 1/4" TRS cable w/pot into ch 1 insert.
Insert the other 1/4" TRS (the one you cut off) into ch 2 insert (dummy plug).

It seems to be working just fine, controlling both channels. Seems too EZ! I didn't take the time to figure out which lead was tip or ring.. the only one I paid attention to was the braided shield, and attached it to an outside lug. The other 2 leads I just soldered onto the other 2 lugs, guessing I guess. Maybe I guessed right, or maybe it doesn't matter, whatever the case its working!
Old 3rd June 2012
  #60
how many posts does it take a gearslut to hook up a sidechain!

the fatso is the bomb for fattening up virtual synths and poorly recorded tracks, couldn't live without it.

wouldn't be my first choice on the two buss though.

cheers!
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