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Chandler EMI Beatles? Turntables
Old 9th June 2003
  #31
Lives for gear
 

BrianK, throw us a bone...........please. At least to the EMI/Chandler stuff and it's useage or lack there of.

BTW the book is an insanely good idea
Can't wait to read it.......so hurry up and finish it

Oh yeah, and thanks for joining us. I imagine a guy with your knowledge will be very welcome around here.

-Sean
Old 9th June 2003
  #32
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Just thinking.......what a great gift that book would be for a couple engineer friends of mine. Be sure to let us know when the book gets released.

-Sean
Old 10th June 2003
  #33
Gear Addict
 
BrianK's Avatar
 

Sorry - no "bones" to throw out now. We don't want to seem rude, though. We ARE still sorting things out and don't wish to make dumb errors in public. It is MUCH harder than you would think. And beware all of what you read in previous books or the internet - good and bad information is all over the place.

The only "bone" I could give you (maybe to convince you to wait for the book) is that we recently showed some bits of our Fairchild section some of the engineers involved; basically they all said that even they "learned a lot..." I suppose that means that non-EMI outsiders could learn a lot too...

Thanks for your attention anyway - especially whoever noticed the site "looks good"; Kevin Ryan is an amazing graphic artist as well, it should be a nice-looking book. We are supposed to put up a small update on the site in a day or so...

www.recordingthebeatles.com
Old 10th June 2003
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

The Chandler compressor is based on the unit from the EMI Transfer (Disk Cutting) console, NOT the limiter in the TG12345 recording console.
One important difference is that the transfer console unit does not have an input control (the level was handled by a separate part of the desk), whereas the recording console limiter does (the Input gain control of the desk).
The transformers in all these units were made by EMI themselves. Since they (EMI) are no longer in the electronics manufacturing business, there's no way you're going to get originals anymore, so you'll have to be satisfied with replicas. How good these replicas are will depend on the skill of the manufacturer, and the spec they are given to work to.

BG

www.tgmixers.co.uk
Old 10th June 2003
  #35
I agree with BrianK. There is MUCH misinformation about The Beatles, their songs and their methods. In fact if you research it you will even find different versions of the same story from those involved.
As far as compressors are concerned, the Fairchild is the unit most associated with The Beatles. It was the unit that gave them their signature 'sucking' piano and drum sounds.
Old 10th June 2003
  #36
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paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BeeGee
The Chandler compressor is based on the unit from the EMI Transfer (Disk Cutting) console, NOT the limiter in the TG12345 recording console.
One important difference is that the transfer console unit does not have an input control (the level was handled by a separate part of the desk), whereas the recording console limiter does (the Input gain control of the desk).
The transformers in all these units were made by EMI themselves. Since they (EMI) are no longer in the electronics manufacturing business, there's no way you're going to get originals anymore, so you'll have to be satisfied with replicas. How good these replicas are will depend on the skill of the manufacturer, and the spec they are given to work to.

BG

www.tgmixers.co.uk
BG [is this Brian who knows the Stacey brothers in London??]

The Chandler TG1 does have an input gain control on it.


Cheers,
John
Old 10th June 2003
  #37
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Hello everyone-
I normally do not like to post because I dont want to seem biased in my opinions of my own products. I just wanted to clarify what our TG Limiter is. Reffering to Mr. Gibsons post, we did base it on the transfer console module. But it should be stated that the tranfer limiter and the channel limiter circuit are almost identical. The circuit path surrounding the limiter section is different as stated by Mr Gibson.
For example the transfer limiter doesnt have the input gain section used on the microphone input of the channel etc. We did add a control on the front of the unit to give better control of the input/limiting........

Tranformers were intersting to figure out. I had several transformer companies try to copy the old versions without success. Eventually we decided to use ST Ives transformers from England. The input and output transformers we use are similar in design to those used in 1073 and 1081 Neve modules, and are the closest sounding thing we could find to the old ones-including the custom copies we tried. Lester from Abeey Road told me the transfer console transformers were Guardner which were also used in the early "black" Neve modules, so I think the heritage of the two types is similar..............
Old 10th June 2003
  #38
Gear Maniac
 

The later transfer console transformers were made by Gardeners (the ones I have here are marked as such). Unfortunately Gardeners are also out of business, and the company who took over their assets have no records of the spec of the EMI transformers.
I've racked up a few of the transfer console limiters and always got the comment that they needed an input gain control. I did not mean to assert the TG1 units did not have a control, just that the originals didn't.

BG [is this Brian who knows the Stacey brothers in London??]

Yes, that's me!

BG
Old 10th June 2003
  #39
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Brian-
I would love to meet you someday. Lester spoke very highly of you when I was at Abbey Road.

Wade Chandler Goeke
Chandler Limited
Old 11th June 2003
  #40
Lives for gear
 

Wade, Thanks for joining us. You should really consider doing a guest moderator spot hear on gearslutz. Anyway........while you're here, I was wondering if you could shed some light on the sonic footprint of your EMI stuff for those of us who haven't heard them. For instance, comparing the pre to a Neve or API. Not a better or worse. More of a compare and contrast. I don't think anyone would consider you biased by giving your opinion. To the contrary, people around here love to hear from the designers themselves about their own products. Afterall, this is GEARSLUTZ!

-Sean
Old 11th June 2003
  #41
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You talked me into it!

Being a maker of several different type of gear (Neve/ EMI etc) and an owner and user of many other types I have found this:

The EMI pre amp sound is often compared to the Neve AND Api sounds, but most say its in the middle of the two types. I and others have said it has the warmth and low end thickness of the Neve with the more open and natural high end of the Api. I think that is a very powerful combo and when I first stumbled onto the vintage ones I copied it was instantly apparent that they had a sound like no other, and I had to make them. I have been a huge EMI fan since Evanna Manley sold me my first pair of TG limiters about ten years ago and I have'nt looked back.

Since buying my four vintage EMI pre amps I have hardly used another pre- even the other ones I make.......................

Wade Chandler Goeke
Chandler Limited
Old 11th June 2003
  #42
I haven't used the limiters but I've recorded drums on an EMI console several times and the sound is awesome. It comes back sounding larger than life, although NOT hyped or fake. Just beautifully warm and fat.
Heard nothing but good things about all the Chandler lines BTW.
Wish I could afford the EMI units.
Old 11th June 2003
  #43
Gear Maniac
 

One other factor in the "Beatles sound" to think about: just because the newer EMI (TG) console had limiters built in, doesn't mean they were necessarily used on the "Abbey Road" recordings. The Fairchilds were (and still are) available.

Consider this though, the TG mixer (1968) was the first multi-channel console with a limiter/compressor on every channel.

www.tgmixers.co.uk
Old 11th June 2003
  #44
So I see from your website that you are about to offer limiters and micpre's Brian.
I've worked on Terry Brittains console. Awesome.
Have you seen this early EMI console for sale?
http://www.aesproaudio.com/stokset.htm

Vintage King have also got some fantastic EMI kit, including mastering eq and limiters.

You got to have the moolah though
Old 12th June 2003
  #45
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Wade, thanks very much for the info on the pre. Can't wait to put it up against my Neve's and API's. If I could pick your brain about the TG1 for a minute. What applications do you feel it works best on. Vocals, drum bus, bass, etc. And how do you think it would function as a mix bus compressor? Anybody using it there?

-Sean
Old 12th June 2003
  #46
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The Limiter uses the same line amps and transformers as the pre amps. It has a very colorful sound and a pleasing distortion produced by Zener diodes. It is easliy one of the most colorful sounding limiters I have used. Listen to Nowhere Man by the Beatles. The crushed guitar line that weaves through the song is exactly what it can sound like when hit hard. It can do that same sound on drums as well, which is really cool.

I have certain things that I never record without the TG Limiter. They are drum room mics, vocals, drum buss when mixing, and about half of the guitars. I dont use it on very hard guitar tracks. Usually Ill go to a Neve 2254 or one of our LTD-2 versions of that unit. Also I really love the OLD API compressor and the Distressor ( Dave Derr is definitly the man!).

People love it on piano, but I dont have much experience with that. What Ive heard on piano is very close to the later beatles piano sounds, but I think they might have used a Fairchild for some of that. I do have many people compare the sound to a 670, except the TG can be MUCH more brutal in a GREAT way! In the review we had in Mix, Barry Rudolph said it was the tubiest sounding solid state limiter he had ever heard.

On mix buss I also dont have much experience, but I have been meaning to experiment with that more. I wish there was more time in the day. 24 hours just isnt enough! They were used in the mastering or transfer consoles made by EMI at the time. When I was at Abbey Road several months ago I listened in to a mastering session where they were using one of those desks and it sounded INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!! In my humble opinion the EMI designers were some of the
the most incredible of all time. That is why I had to make this stuff.

I have people tell me they like it on bass as well, but again I personally have little experience with that. I dont get to record as much as I used to.

In final, I would say that if your looking for a different sound to many of the limiter/copressors you've heard, or want a colored, squishy, vintage style sound the TG Limiter could be your man.

As to the usage of the consoles. I have been told the were installed just in time to start the Abbey Road album. I am unsure as to there availibilty before that, but after that time they were used on Pink Floyd records recorded at Abbey Road, Paul Mcartney, and a Stones album.

Wade Chandler Goeke
Chandler Limited
Old 13th June 2003
  #47
Gear Maniac
 

Chrisso,
Yes, I've actually seen that vintage EMI desk. It's nothing like any of the Abbey Road consoles. In the sixties there were two separate departments building audio equipment at EMI. One was primarily for studio use and the other made broadcast equipment for people like the BBC (eg the BTR range of tape recorders.)
This desk was produced by the broadcast division.
Interestingly, one of my clients has a rack of the mic-pre's from one of these desks, which they rate very highly.
The desk was found in eastern Europe, but some of the documentation suggests that it may have originally been in the Pathe-Marconi studios in Paris.

If you want to contact me direct, do it through my website:
www.tgmixers.co.uk

BG
Old 13th June 2003
  #48
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Gie-Sound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by wade goeke
I do have many people compare the sound to a 670, except the TG can be MUCH more brutal in a GREAT way!
Wade Chandler Goeke
Chandler Limited
Wade, do the Fairchild and the TG1 have anything in common in the way they work/react? What can you say about the time-related stuff like attack curves and release curves??

Have you ever considered to print "Beatles" "EMI" "AbbeyRoad" or terms like that on the front??
I guess some of these are protected, but I think stuff like that can be a magnet to some clients... heh
I know Michael H. Brauer has one with EMI on it:
Old 13th June 2003
  #49
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I hav'nt studied the Fairchild very closely. I cant afford to buy one for research. . There is some info on our site about attack and release times. Is that what your interested in? www.chandlerlimited.com

The first run of twenty or so units had the EMI logo on it, then we got in trouble
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 13th June 2003
  #50
Gear Maniac
 

I'm sure Wade won't mind me saying this, but it would be totally wrong to make any Beatles connection with his product.
The TG console that was used for the "Abbey Road" recording was very much a prototype and the subsequent versions (Mk2 and Mk3) were substantially modified. One of the parts that was significantly different was the limiter/compressor, which is even called a Mk2 on the circuit drawings.
Geoff Emerick has expressed a preference for the Fairchild 660, and it's reasonable to assume they would still have been used during the sessions.

BG
Old 13th June 2003
  #51
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Wade, thank you for your input. I recently heard somewhere that you have an option to change the impedance on the mic pre. What's the lowdown. How does one order it with this option and what is the extra cost?
Thanks,
Sean
Old 13th June 2003
  #52
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, you can order them to switch between 300 and 1200 ohm. Its $200 to modify an existing unit or $150 extra to order it new. We can usually have it done in a day if were not slammed. If anybody wants it just call the shop and send it in. No problem.

319-352-2587

Im taking my kid fishing, so Ill talk to you later .
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