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SSL G Buss Comp- MakeUp Gain question Other Modular Audio Processors
Old 8th February 2010
  #1
Gear Addict
 

SSL G Buss Comp- MakeUp Gain question

Sorry had this posted in the new product section by accident.

The G series buss compressor makeup gain seems to have a reputation of sounding a little noisy and thin when too much is used. Ive heard a lot of mixers say they get around the makeup gain using alternative sources and methods.
Also heard of this quite a bit before the AW mix interview.

Just wondering if this also applies and if the makeup gain circuit is the same in the newer XLogic G series compressor... as its supposed to be an exact copy?

Seems like a bit of a pain having to use another pre etc after for makeup gain.
Old 9th February 2010
  #2
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anyone?
Old 9th February 2010
  #3
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superama's Avatar
 

Does it sound noisy and thin to you? Sounds like a pain to me too.

I wouldn't put much stock in a piece of gear's reputation. I prefer my ears' judgement.
Old 9th February 2010
  #4
Daft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehall6162 View Post
The G series buss compressor makeup gain seems to have a reputation of sounding a little noisy and thin when too much is used.
Really? This is news to me.
Where did you hear this drivel?
Old 10th February 2010
  #5
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six_wax's Avatar
 

It ain't the best gain amp under the sun, but it sure won't ruin a good record.

This is what we call a "merely academic concern". We specialize in those here at GS Anonymous...
Old 10th February 2010
  #6
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my boss uses an SSL4000 and NEVER uses the makeup gain on the compressor. He says it sounds lofi.

Junk
Old 10th February 2010
  #7
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Ah yes, ladles and jellyspoons, the hilarity of internet forums once again.
used it on a thousand mixes (until i got a better 2-buss comp) and the volume knob never hurt the sound of the mix.

go make music.
Old 10th February 2010
  #8
theother
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJunk View Post
my boss uses an SSL4000 and NEVER uses the makeup gain on the compressor. He says it sounds lofi.

Junk
And how does he get it out of the circuit?

Even at 0 there is an amp in there. It's not that it is bypassed or something...
Old 10th February 2010
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
And how does he get it out of the circuit?
Simple. You wave a drumstick in the air three times and shout "WHOOOOHOOO, WHOOOO, WHOOOHOOO, BE GONE YE LO FI FILTH!" a couple of times and your mix will be blessed and spared. Surprised you didn't know that.
Old 10th February 2010
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Ok guys thats really funny and everything...but can anyone actually tell me if the amp circuit was updated for the XLogic gcomp over the older 4000 versions?
Old 10th February 2010
  #11
TRW
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TRW's Avatar
There is no amp. The SSL circuit uses the actual VCA for makeup gain was well as compression.

A dc offset is added into the VCA control path along with dc from sc detectors... so the amp squashes and raises output level at the same time.

The newer ones are quieter in this regard. There is no extra amp, nor can it be taken out of circuit as far as I am aware...

-T
Old 10th February 2010
  #12
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dualflip's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davehall6162 View Post
Sorry had this posted in the new product section by accident.

The G series buss compressor makeup gain seems to have a reputation of sounding a little noisy and thin when too much is used. Ive heard a lot of mixers say they get around the makeup gain using alternative sources and methods.
Also heard of this quite a bit before the AW mix interview.

Just wondering if this also applies and if the makeup gain circuit is the same in the newer XLogic G series compressor... as its supposed to be an exact copy?

Seems like a bit of a pain having to use another pre etc after for makeup gain.
Have you tried raising the makeup gain to see what happens and make your own judgement?, damn i cant believe someone has to make a new thread to find out if he should use the make up gain or not....
Old 10th February 2010
  #13
Deleted User
Guest
I own the greyface and have used it a lot over the past 3 years. Used it next to some other fairly well regarded mix bus comps: drawmer 1968, portico 5043, xrack mix bus comp and api 2500.

The vca design above does not surprise! I like what the gain knob does more and more when used to taste. On some dance songs driving that gain knob sounds massively dirty and makes me want to break out strobe lights when mixing : D

Better mix bus compressors? Well, I dunno about that. It would be great to have a dozen to choose from ... But for small'ish operations 2-3 is good and dreamhire rentals if you HAVE to have something else for the project. After a while, the tools you use begin to become "your" sound and if you are constantly challenging yourself, they will sound uniquely excellent. Follow me?

Kinda like spending some time with a great sampler or eventide box or kurzweil synth etc ...... After a while you hit a zone where you are doings things with it in a way that is unique and excellent.
Old 10th February 2010
  #14
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Gerax's Avatar
 

And so guys, how hard do you drive it on the mix buss? I figure, if you are using that much makeup gain so that you can actually hear the noise (which I don't), it must be some pretty squashing compression!! I like the grit and little bit of grunge it puts on the mixes...
Old 10th February 2010
  #15
Lives for gear
 

I generally do everything wrong or how you're not supposed to... I mix pretty hot and never needed to raise the makeup gain. Threshold pretty high, makeup gain all the way down. Probably sounds good either way...
Old 11th February 2010
  #16
Deleted User
Guest
I "make up the gain". Usually no more than 2-3 ... Sometimes 4-5, but I need to EQ at this point.

If I need more gain, I can bring up the gain on my converters or go thru a pair of api 205l.
Old 11th February 2010
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit View Post
I generally do everything wrong or how you're not supposed to... I mix pretty hot and never needed to raise the makeup gain. Threshold pretty high, makeup gain all the way down. Probably sounds good either way...
I do something similar, threshold wide open, all the way clockwise, and gain 0.
It hits my converters plenty hot
Old 11th February 2010
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit View Post
I generally do everything wrong or how you're not supposed to... I mix pretty hot and never needed to raise the makeup gain. Threshold pretty high, makeup gain all the way down. Probably sounds good either way...
I've been doing it this way for years on the Focusrite comp.
Old 13th February 2010
  #19
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehall6162 View Post
Ok guys thats really funny and everything...but can anyone actually tell me if the amp circuit was updated for the XLogic gcomp over the older 4000 versions?
If anything it was downgraded. Most engineers will tell you that the older units sounded slightly sweeter.

The best sounding IMO is the built in Quad compressor in G+ desks, followed by the grey FX G384, followed by the 9K desk compressor , followed by the FXLogic stereo compressor. They are all slightly different in design. The later ones use SMT which also degrades the sound a bit IMO. It makes them cheaper to manufacture though. Have you ever tried to repair one of these? Good luck!
Old 14th February 2010
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
The later ones use SMT which also degrades the sound a bit IMO. It makes them cheaper to manufacture though. Have you ever tried to repair one of these? Good luck!
for those of you who don't speak tech-speak, that's surface mount technology - those little wafers that don't even have legs to solder. That might make a difference to the sound, but the biggest difference is the old dbx VCA vs the new THAT vca (which is a bit cleaner). To me, they're all kissing cousins - close enough to not be a big issue.
Old 14th February 2010
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
If anything it was downgraded. Most engineers will tell you that the older units sounded slightly sweeter.

The best sounding IMO is the built in Quad compressor in G+ desks,
I am partial to the original in the E desk with the gold can VCA's. Only problem was when you drove the board too hard the overall sound felt like a pounding headache.

From there the sound got more open but with less grab/grit, which now its to the point where its almost unrecognizable and unnecessary to me. I still like it on a the drum sub but don't dig it as much on the whole console over all.
Old 17th March 2010
  #22
Gear Addict
 

Today we tested the onboard G compressor to a new X Logic compressor. Everyone thought the X Logic was punchier and had a sweeter high end. The entire board was recapped last year. It wasn't a huge difference but it was audible.
Junk
Old 17th March 2010
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
The later ones use SMT which also degrades the sound a bit IMO. It makes them cheaper to manufacture though.
From a purely technically standpoint SMT should spec out better. Whether you like the sound is a different story.
Old 17th March 2010
  #24
Gear Addict
 
aidyhall's Avatar
Leaving the gain make-up on zero sure makes recalls much easier, seeing as there's not enough markings on the front panel to make this easy, particularly with the Al Smart C1 ... I pre-mark the front panel threshold too, and then control how hard I hit the compressor with a master fader (if mixing in ProTools) or the VCA Trim (if on an SSL). Makes it easy to hit the sweet spot of the console, and easy to recall.

Never heard any difference with gain make-up up or down, once level-matched. I actually tried it once, years ago, after hearing this very rumour ...
Old 17th March 2010
  #25
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nobtwiddler's Avatar
I've had the grey SSL 384 since it was released way back when.
Bought it new and have used it ever since on almost every mix I've done.

Spun that damn makeup gain knob up,, down, & every which way but loose!
Never sounded bad, or hurt a mix in my opinion.
Did what I had to, for that particular mix, & moment in time.
All good....!
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