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Bricasti M7 vs Lexicon 480 Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 1st February 2010
  #1
Gear Head
 

Bricasti M7 vs Lexicon 480

Hello,
I'd like to buy a new reverb. I have a PCM 90 and 70 + some plug (like TL Space, Revibe, D-verb, Rev one ecc).
So I'm considering a Bricasti M7 (or a PCM96).
I'd like to know what do you think about M7 compared to the classic 480.
Should I wait for it or Bricasti can be the ticket?

Thank you
Old 1st February 2010
  #2
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dhiltonlittle's Avatar
 

bricasti is one of my favorite reverbs available.
Old 1st February 2010
  #4
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Don't listen to anyone here. Just get a M7 and a PCM96 as a demo and listen for yourself. It's a matter of personal taste and field of application.
You might want to wait a little until Bricasti ships their V2, so you could include these new sounds into your tests.
You could also search the archives here and ONLY take posts by people serious who have listened to both units. (0.01% of all people ;-)
Old 1st February 2010
  #5
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dhiltonlittle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum View Post
Don't listen to anyone here. Just get a M7 and a PCM96 as a demo and listen for yourself. It's a matter of personal taste and field of application.
You might want to wait a little until Bricasti ships their V2, so you could include these new sounds into your tests.
You could also search the archives here and ONLY take posts by people serious who have listened to both units. (0.01% of all people ;-)
i don't know that i'd suggest waiting around for v2. it's a free upgrade and i've been waiting on that update since last summer! i have the m7 and also just got the pcm native bundle. they are very different and you could warrant having both. problem with the m7 is your going to want a second as soon as you get it!
Old 1st February 2010
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle View Post
problem with the m7 is your going to want a second as soon as you get it!
That's true.

Heroin is pretty addicting.
Old 1st February 2010
  #7
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KevWind's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
That's true.

Heroin is pretty addicting.
Jesss Ask Lou Reed !! Love to here his voice thru an M7
Old 1st February 2010
  #8
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unit7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle View Post
problem with the m7 is your going to want a second as soon as you get it!
yep. got my m7m/m10 bundle a week ago. just ordered a 2nd m7m. have to stop after this, though. got to restrain myself
Old 1st February 2010
  #9
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Marcocet's Avatar
I love old Lex verbs but the M7 does something I've never heard a processor do before. I couldn't recommend it more highly.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #10
Gear Addict
 

The M7 is the future of reverberation, Lexicon is the past.

The 480 has one leg in the tar pit.

Quote from the most successful engineer I know, 40 years as a studio owner-
"If I had heard the M7 first, I would never have bought the PCM96..."

BUT you can buy a 96 for pretty cheap right now... The plug ins are a risk. Lexicon discontinued plug ins in the past but they wont come to your house and take your PCM96/480 back...

Waiting V2 is like not marrying a beautiful smart woman worth millions of dollars because shes buying a new house but hasn't moved in yet...

I admit Im not real thrilled with lexicon as a company, but they still make good sounding verb. Just no longer the pinnacle...
Old 2nd February 2010
  #11
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audiomichael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars 2078 View Post
Hello,
I'd like to buy a new reverb. I have a PCM 90 and 70 + some plug (like TL Space, Revibe, D-verb, Rev one ecc).
So I'm considering a Bricasti M7 (or a PCM96).
I'd like to know what do you think about M7 compared to the classic 480.
Should I wait for it or Bricasti can be the ticket?

Thank you
Both are a step up from your usual software verb. But before you buy, you MUST HEAR BOTH. They are not "the same, but different". They are different. I suspect that you'll definitively prefer one over the other.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #12
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum View Post
... ONLY take posts by people serious who have listened to both units. (0.01% of all people ;-)
I have not only listened to both units, I own both. I can confirm that both units are useful, but there is not a great deal in the way of overlap between them IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle View Post
...problem with the m7 is your going to want a second as soon as you get it!
BTDT. My second unit arrived last November. However I have no immediate plans to get a second PCM96, if that tells you anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
I suspect that you'll definitively prefer one over the other.
Possibly - but more likely, you'll prefer one on some tracks and the other on others.

Essentially, the Bricasti v1 does realism like nothing else - reverbs that blend and sit with the track as though the sound was recorded like that, while the PCM96 does shimmery effect-reverbs that are classic and grab for attention. This is somewhat of an over-simplification, but hopefully you get the idea.

Bricasti v2 is mooted to add a list of super-real (and possibly, therefore, more synthetic sounding) capabilities to the M7, without costing anything and without detracting in any way from the existing v1 sounds and capabilities. With the advent of v2, the M7 may become still more desirable. I haven't heard v2, but based on how good v1 is, I am optimistic. Meanwhile, v1 is already stellar.

On the case of the OP, since you already have a PCM 90 and 70, you will expand your repertoire more by going with an M7 than the PCM96, which will give you only incremental advantages over the 70 and 90 (whereas the M7 is a whole different world).
Old 2nd February 2010
  #13
Shy
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSM Interactive View Post
On the case of the OP, since you already have a PCM 90 and 70, you will expand your repertoire more by going with an M7 than the PCM96, which will give you only incremental advantges over the 70 and 90 (whereas the M7 is a whole different world).
The chamber, plate and hall reverbs sound very different than the PCM90 or PCM70. I have no idea how you can say the PCM96 only gives 'incremental advantages".
Old 2nd February 2010
  #14
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shy View Post
The chamber, plate and hall reverbs sound very different than the PCM90 or PCM70. I have no idea how you can say the PCM96 only gives 'incremental advantages".
I agree, they aren't the same. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Sorry if my choice of words was misleading, and thanks for chiming in with a clarification.

What I was trying to say is that the '96 is of the same general family and provides an extension (and update) of the same broad (Lex) genre of reverbs and other effects. As opposed to the M7, which is quite a different breed.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #15
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elambo's Avatar
Easy choice for me -- Lexicon PCM Bundle.

Or wait for the 480 plugin, which isn't too far away.

I have a long list of reasons why you should avoid a Bricasti.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #16
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post

I have a long list of reasons why you should avoid a Bricasti.
Could you quote just few ?
Old 2nd February 2010
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Could you quote just few ?
Insert popcorn eating smilie here please!!!heh

Just to go on the record i am one of the few guys who didn't buy an M7 after trying it. And that's only because at the time i had other units that to me covered the areas that were the M7 strengths for me.
What it does great which is blending with the tracks sending to it for me just didn't justify the expense at the time.

I was hoping for something more bombastic and different to what i already have and the way people spoke about it that's kind of what i was expecting.

Now that i've sold some of those pieces i am hoping after version 2 that i can get more uses out of it if choose to buy it. Lastly i haven't heard many people speak about the remote which i was dissapointed with. Not only is it really expensive(costs more than half the price of the unit) but its one control knob for everything which made it not intuitive in terms of programming quickly. I wish they had adopted the old LARC concept of a fader for each set of controls.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #18
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post

I have a long list of reasons why you should avoid a Bricasti.
Yes ,do tell
Old 2nd February 2010
  #19
Gear Nut
 
2busdriver's Avatar
 

my shortlist 2 items:
no AD\DD. It would be super neat to utilize it's convertors for tracking a\d .
fan noise; wish I could hide it when tracking (my problem, really)
Old 2nd February 2010
  #20
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tomdarude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
I have a long list of reasons why you should avoid a Bricasti.

I couldn´t for the life of me think of a single one.... ever
Old 2nd February 2010
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdarude View Post
I couldn´t for the life of me think of a single one.... ever
Nothing is perfect...

These apple vs orange - who is the best fruit - contests are always so "fun" to watch, but also such a waste of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSM Interactive View Post
...
Essentially, the Bricasti v1 does realism like nothing else - reverbs that blend and sit with the track as though the sound was recorded like that, while the PCM96 does shimmery effect-reverbs that are classic and grab for attention. This is somewhat of an over-simplification, but hopefully you get the idea.
...
I still wonder, if the Bricasti is not in reality a hybrid, half convolution, half parametric device. Could it be that they have the ER patterns from the Sony convolution reverb? The sound of some of the Bricasti hall presets named after actual locations always reminds me more of the Sony reverb or a good set of room microphones, than the more enveloping Lexicon sound.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #22
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2busdriver View Post
fan noise;
Yes, this is the real one, I admit. I would really prefer if this thing is not there at all. I would not mind 2U or 3U instead if it helps ... Yes, you can reduce the fan in some ways, but it is still there ... and I hear it all the time ..
Old 2nd February 2010
  #23
Lives for gear
 
DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2busdriver View Post
fan noise
Already addressed, since an M7M and M10 combo gives you the ability to locate the rack unit(s) in a different room.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #24
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSM Interactive View Post
I have not only listened to both units, I own both. I can confirm that both units are useful, but there is not a great deal in the way of overlap between them IMO.



BTDT. My second unit arrived last November. However I have no immediate plans to get a second PCM96, if that tells you anything.



Possibly - but more likely, you'll prefer one on some tracks and the other on others.

Essentially, the Bricasti v1 does realism like nothing else - reverbs that blend and sit with the track as though the sound was recorded like that, while the PCM96 does shimmery effect-reverbs that are classic and grab for attention. This is somewhat of an over-simplification, but hopefully you get the idea.

Bricasti v2 is mooted to add a list of super-real (and possibly, therefore, more synthetic sounding) capabilities to the M7, without costing anything and without detracting in any way from the existing v1 sounds and capabilities. With the advent of v2, the M7 may become still more desirable. I haven't heard v2, but based on how good v1 is, I am optimistic. Meanwhile, v1 is already stellar.

On the case of the OP, since you already have a PCM 90 and 70, you will expand your repertoire more by going with an M7 than the PCM96, which will give you only incremental advantges over the 70 and 90 (whereas the M7 is a whole different world).
Between the M7 and PCM96, which would you say is most useful for pop ballad vocals?
Which for drums and which one for strings and orchestral instruments?

Audy O
Old 2nd February 2010
  #25
Lives for gear
 
DarkSky Media's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audy O View Post
Between the M7 and PCM96, which would you say is most useful for pop ballad vocals?
Which for drums and which one for strings and orchestral instruments?

Audy O
I don't make that call based on which instrument or even what genre, but on what I think will make the mix work. In very broad terms, I add M7 sounds to make instruments blend better, gel better and to give them a sense of greater naturalism and "right there-ness", whereas the '96 works (for me, at least) better to pull a track forward out of the mix and shine a light on it. Huge generalization, but they do do different things.

It's not a question of whether it's a pop ballad or strings or whatever, but of what moves will get the elements to combine in a way that strikes the right mood or whatever. Which instruments need to come out and dance

All the same, overall I find more call for the M7 than for the '96, which is why I have two M7s in the rack and only one '96, as noted above.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #26
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Marcocet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
I have a long list of reasons why you should avoid a Bricasti.
I'm interested too Elambo. If you've got something then drop some knowledge on us.
Old 2nd February 2010
  #27
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Insert popcorn eating smilie here please!!!heh

Just to go on the record i am one of the few guys who didn't buy an M7 after trying it. And that's only because at the time i had other units that to me covered the areas that were the M7 strengths for me.
What it does great which is blending with the tracks sending to it for me just didn't justify the expense at the time.

I was hoping for something more bombastic and different to what i already have and the way people spoke about it that's kind of what i was expecting.

Now that i've sold some of those pieces i am hoping after version 2 that i can get more uses out of it if choose to buy it. Lastly i haven't heard many people speak about the remote which i was dissapointed with. Not only is it really expensive(costs more than half the price of the unit) but its one control knob for everything which made it not intuitive in terms of programming quickly. I wish they had adopted the old LARC concept of a fader for each set of controls.

Just you wait for version 2. It is amazinig and I am a Lexicon fan. It's like a super hifi 224/480 in 4d. I am saving my pennies for sure.
Old 3rd February 2010
  #28
Gear Addict
 
audioboffin's Avatar
 

You will find all sorts of opinions regarding user favourites, and once someone has had commercial success it's not easy to talk them out of repeating the gear combinations they used that worked in the past for them. BUT, quite apart from sonics, you need to consider that the Lexicon 480 is an old piece of kit, officially unsupported by Lexicon for a long time now, and often not easily repaired if/when it does fail. Prices are dropping rapidly on 224's and 480's, so purely from an investment perspective they are no longer a really great choice.

On the other hand, the Bricasti is a new gadget full of new capacitors, chips and solder, has some awesome sounding converters and algorithms, and has a very good prognosis in terms of longevity.

You need to ask yourself whether you are a collector or a long term practical user.. because the division between the two will become wider as time passes.

My opinion for consideration only.
Old 3rd February 2010
  #29
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
What it does great which is blending with the tracks sending to it for me just didn't justify the expense at the time.
You are right... to put the M7 in short- its ability to blend is totally the big deal. None of the others do it for me the way the M7 does BUT- if you have a great space to record in and are used to overcoming the issues of prior verbs- its not as big a deal.

I would still take it as my primary verb now that Ive used it consistently- its soooo fast to sound good, not perfect, but instant good. Its the fact that it doesn't get in the way thats made it a big deal for me- no hang ups.

We avoided the M7 initially because of GS hype mentality. There have been so many psuedo "Eureka" moments here its ridiculous. But damn if this didn't surpass the hype. And not just me but every engineer weve hosted at both studios.

A friends client tracked the orchestra at skywalker and the chorus at a church. He mentioned the mix was tough with the spaces fighting (both recordings had heavy room influence of course with this type of content)... Until he brought up the M7. Problem solved and the lexis werent cutting it. Glue, blend, space, etc. whatever you want to call it, the M7 has it in spades...

I think the interesting thing is not one person I respect has said the M7 didn't sound good. You can balk on price, channels, fans, hardware vs software- whatever... But nobody is arguing about how it sounds and that says it all.
Old 4th February 2010
  #30
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by haikusoftruth View Post
I think the interesting thing is not one person I respect has said the M7 didn't sound good. You can balk on price, channels, fans, hardware vs software- whatever... But nobody is arguing about how it sounds and that says it all.
I've seen several people on GS who've dismissed the M7 based solely upon its sound. Without question that's a minority group, but it's a group. By and large people who've decided not to by it have done so based upon other reasons, all of which are relevant factors, except maybe the fan.
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