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Best replacement to KM84 for acoustic guitars? Condenser Microphones
Old 16th August 2015
  #181
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
Sure, as long as the business feels they have a legitimate profit motive in making the lesser priced model in its own right.



Yes, we agree on those points. Where I disagreed was that there's a direct correlation between manufacturing cost and wholesale. There isn't one, necessarily.



I don't know about that. I personally consider the 184 a very, very fine mic, yet I don't know if "most of the customers" truly prefer it to the vintage 84.

JSL
My opinion is that a KM84 sounds noticeably superior to a KM184 in pretty much any application I have used them on over the years.
The top end is much smoother and the KM84 is a more natural sounding mic to my ears.

I owned a pair of KM 184's for about 2 years and always thought they sounded decent, but when I got a pair of KM84's next to them I realized that they were inferior, at least for my taste.

Recently I was recording violin and we tried one of my KM84's and the violinists KM184 next to each other. The violin player was shocked to hear how much better the KM84 made his instrument sound!

KM84's and KM86's are some of the best mics ever made in my opinion.

Mowtown and Abbey Road each had over 20 KM86's at one time and they made some pretty good recordings eh?

I find it strange that people think KM84's going for about $1000 each are over priced. There are so many new mics out there that cost as much or more that do not perform nearly as well on such a wide variety of sources.
Old 16th August 2015
  #182
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

If you figure in inflation, 84s went for the equivalent of $2000 in the '60s. Unlike many mikes that old, Neumann still repairs them. They are a great vocal mike and drum mike too. I'm not aware of anything as versatile.
Old 16th August 2015
  #183
Quote:
Originally Posted by connloyalist View Post
It's called the CM1084. I have two with two more on the way. The tolerances/fit and finish on the first two I own leaves something to be desired (it will be interesting to see how the two that are on the way are in that respect), but I think they sound terrific. Plus the various different capsules that are available (omni, wide omni, cardioid, super cardioid and "grilled" cardioid) and the "bright / vintage" switch makes the CM1084 a very versatile microphone.

Regards, Christine
At $350 it's definitely about sound and not aesthetics. Glad to hear they sound as good as I expected, I need to get a couple.
Old 19th September 2015
  #184
Gear Addict
 

As far as SDC's are concerned we have KM84's, KM85's, KMS84i, KM184's, Josephson C42's, AKG 451 EB's (CK1), AKG C60, Oktava MK012's.

Out of all of these, the mic's that sound most like the original sources are the KM84's and KM85's (if close micing)

Whether acoustic guitar, mandolin, banjo, percussion etc. the KM's are clear, solid and detailed without any added hype.
I rarely feel the need to EQ the KM84's much as they just seem to capture most things perfectly.

Although the KM184's are a little brighter (though not as much as some are led to believe) they are also faster transient wise (probably due to being transformerless) which can make them seem a little harder sounding when comparing them against KM84's.

As far as off axis quality is concerned the KM84 wins hands down which I think is another reason it seems to sound very focussed.

The Josephsons are probably the brightest of all the SDC's we have but mostly avoid sounding hard or edgy as the top end manages to remain quite sweet.

Strangely enough the mic's that seem tonally closest to the KM84's are the Oktava's but they can't match the KM84's solid focus.

Out of all of our SDC's if I could only keep one type it would be the KM84's.

So a very belated answer your question as to what the best replacement for a KM84 (IMO) is?.... wait for it... a KM84!
Old 19th September 2015
  #185
Gear Maniac
 

Beesneez lulu
Old 19th September 2015
  #186
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KevWind's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
KM-69... created for exactly this reason.
Agreed and the price is very attractive.
When I was auditioning at the same time , 6 different good SDC mic's for acoustic guitar the KM-69 came in second only and was only very slightly surpassed IMO by the Schoeps CM6- MK4 for half the price.
Old 19th September 2015
  #187
Gear Addict
 

The original question posed was:

Best replacement to KM84 for acoustic guitars? Which one would you choose from the current production mics?

Unless I'm looking in the wrong places, neither the 84 nor the 69 are current production mics. I understand that they might still be regarded as the best but it doesn't help people who are looking for off the shelf solutions...
Old 19th September 2015
  #188
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kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
So am i correct in thinking that the KM85 tonally is the same just with the LF roll off... which is neither here nor there for me as i don't like BOOM in my acc guitars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
It is but I always felt it was a bit too much of a roll off for my taste.
+1. I hate proximity effect, particularly acoustic guitars, but the KK85 rolloff is just too steep and too high for an acoustic guitar, IMHO. I've done a few recordings with a KK85 capsule, but haven't touched one since getting KM84's. The KM84 can be a little thick in the bottom, but not so much that I would go to a KM85 instead of either backing the mic out to reduce proximity effect, or just EQing it.

If OP wants a new production mic in the same ballpark as a KM84, take a look at the AKG C480B. I use C460B's with CK1's, and they have just as nice a top end as the KM84, but are less thick sounding.

Last edited by kafka; 19th September 2015 at 11:01 PM..
Old 19th September 2015
  #189
Gear Addict
 

The KK85 is great on mandolins, banjos, hats etc. where I tend to high-pass most other mics pretty heavily (80-200hz).

I also often use the 85 on acoustics when either very close micing or I'm looking for a particular acoustic sound and want keep the acoustic out of the low zone for instance to avoid clashing with an upright bass.

Sure the KK85 can sound thin but if you work it to your advantage it can be very useful.
And if you Pultec the low end during mix-down sometimes the 85 can turn out a better choice than the 84.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
+1. I hate proximity effect, particularly acoustic guitars, but the KK85 rolloff is just too steep and too high for an acoustic guitar, IMHO. I've done a few recordings with a KK85 capsule, but haven't touched one since getting KM84's. The KM84 can be a little thick in the bottom, but not so much that I would go to a KM85 instead of either backing the mic out to reduce proximity effect, or just EQing it.

If OP wants a new production mic in the same ballpark as a KM84, take a look at the AKG C480B. I use C460B's with CK1's, and they have just as nice a top end as the KM84, but are less thick sounding.
Old 20th September 2015
  #190
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
Yeah, I can see that. I never get that close to an acoustic that proximity would compensate for the low end rolloff. But I can see preferring the KK85 if you were doing that. And on a mando, sure. That would definitely work.
Old 20th September 2015
  #191
Gear Addict
 

Very quiet acoustic finger picking with flesh (not picks or nails) needs fairly close miking especially when a bunch of muso's are playing together live in the same space.

With the flesh giving a soft attack, and the proximity effect of an 84 accentuating the boom factor, the 85 has proved the best option in this situation.

Of course the 84's get more use but the 85 has occassionally proved itself more invaluable than I initially thought it would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
Yeah, I can see that. I never get that close to an acoustic that proximity would compensate for the low end rolloff. But I can see preferring the KK85 if you were doing that. And on a mando, sure. That would definitely work.
Old 20th September 2015
  #192
Lives for gear
 

You know, a sennheiser mkh40 can be had used very reasonably and its a stellar acoustic guitar (and anything else!) microphone.....
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