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Andy Johns goes digital: Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 12th January 2010
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by haikusoftruth View Post
Am I confused... How can an Icon "sound" like anything? Its a giant ass interface right?

Why would it sound different than a HD card and a mac?

I really asking, not being a smart ass. But how can it "sound" at all? Am I completely missing something?
It doesn't sound as good as my vintage track ball.
Old 12th January 2010
  #62
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Faderjockey's Avatar
 

yeah I did a mod on an old Kensington trackball.. Sounds much better.. Warmer even.
Old 12th January 2010
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute View Post
Here's the thing... when someone doesnt want to accept something they say something like--oh he really didnt mean it..he's getting paid to say it.....he lost his ears.....someone put a gun to his head......he sucks now

Its so pathetic.

What so many people just dont seem to get is that they suck. They dont really have top notch skills or ears and that why they must use analog. Of course thats not saying that there are not many things that still sound better in analog or that tape isnt awesome for some things.

What Im talking about it is this...Andy Johns is good enough as to not have to rely on a specific piece of gear to mix a great record. Digital gives you exactly what your hearing through the monitors--if you dont like what you hear---then freakin record it better. Why run everything through such a dilapidated path that it completely changes what you just heard. It has long been held that digital Mix engineers were the stupid ones when in fact it took the most talent to use this new system of recording. Only recently have most of the top pro's moved to digital---of course many use the excuse that it wasnt ready yet--but everyone knows that is just BS..only in the very beginning was it not ready.

Now, you need to listen a little closer and really know your tools instead of relying a distorted console, unbalanced outputs for width, and mushy tape to forgive your tracks of all their sins. Although still have decent reasons to stay with what has always worked for them...most of the newer guys are suffering from fear. Fear that it is the gear that makes them not the skill.
There's only one thing he can say when discussion an album that he worked on.

When the sentence is "I on album X I used gear Y" everyone will always ay it sounded great or they're announcing to the world that they made a bad sounding record.

When they say "Compared to X, Y sounds...." that's the context where you might get an accurate opinion.
Old 12th January 2010
  #64
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
Whoops. I assumed we were talking about kids in bands.

I have no experience with what kids NOT in bands are doing.

Didn't mean to suggest that I did.

Gladly admit that I am TOTALLY out of touch with that demographic.

Best regards,

SM.
... mind you - it's gotta be said that everyone and his monkey seems to be in a band these days!! So you might be onto something there anyway !! heh
Old 12th January 2010
  #65
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post


so do only bands listen to FM radio? That explains it!!! That's why my mom and dad only listened to AM in the 70's, they weren't in a band! Thank the lord for 3 dog night and bands like Bread! "I want to make it with you I really think that we could make it girl.........."
we're talking about NOW. I was making the point that for the majority of kids out there - Led Zep et al ain't it.
Old 13th January 2010
  #66
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bbuyuk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
Its just that analog captures in a more natural musical way. Linear... Analog is not perfect but sound much better than anything digital.
I agree that.
Old 13th January 2010
  #67
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arno K View Post
Hey y'all,

I was just reading an article on the Digidesign website and saw that Andy Johns loves working on an ICON:

“I had a very good time with it,” Johns says, who’s also mastering the albums on ICON. “It took me a little bit of time to get used to it, but I had Kent with me, and he’s a really bright chap. I was amazed at how flexible it was and what can be accomplished. It sounds fabulous — I’m very pleased.”


Maybe old news.But I thought it was kinda funny to read that a man like him, who worked with the finest equipment in the world (neve's, SSL, API's you name it) loves to work on an ICON. While I'm sort of the "new generation producers" (who started out with an Atari, then ProTools etc,...digital as hell!) am going more and more towards analog instead of digital. Everyday I wnat te leave the digital stuff for what it is and love the sound of the old gear. Just the other way around don't ya think?

Apart from that I also thought it was pretty funny to read that "it sounds fantastic!". Well, it's the most expensive mouse on the planet and that's it for the sound! being a C|24 "Mouse" owner myself ;-)

It probably is not as literally as it says in the article, maybe a reporters mistake of whatsoever, but funny to read it like that...
People with straight hair want want wavy hair, people with wavy want straight. We always want what we don't have. Go figure.

Blue Thumb Productions-Audio Production Facilities
Old 13th January 2010
  #68
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
we're talking about NOW. I was making the point that for the majority of kids out there - Led Zep et al ain't it.
Zep is just as popular now as they were in the 80's or the 90's or the last 10 years. Every new generation of kids that come up buy all the same stuff . Zep, AC/DC , Maiden, Slayer, Kiss, Judas, Sabbath, Metallica asmith, Pistols, Floyd G&R on and on.

Lets face reality the only music that has stood the test of time is hard rock and metal. I don't have kids but a couple years ago I use to teach at a University in southern MA. I couldn't believe the stuff kids listened to. Also couldn't believe the fact that they are wearing classic tour shirts of classic bands day in and day out. I thought they only liked blink 182 and Neckelback. Not so. Metallica Sabbath Zep Slayer are as big now as they ever were. Just look at the ticket sales? it is what it is. Iron Maiden still have there own 747. Theyre not riding around in a VW 'tour bus' like all the 90s bands and all the 80's alternative rock bands. I bet your favorite bands don't have one of these toys..........

Old 16th March 2010
  #69
Gear Head
 
crunch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
Lets face reality the only music that has stood the test of time is hard rock and metal.
Reality? Have you ever heard some of the other forms of music, such as jazz, blues or classical? Even 50's ska? C'mon...
Old 16th March 2010
  #70
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute View Post
What Im talking about it is this...Andy Johns is good enough as to not have to rely on a specific piece of gear to mix a great record. Digital gives you exactly what your hearing through the monitors--if you dont like what you hear---then freakin record it better. Why run everything through such a dilapidated path that it completely changes what you just heard. It has long been held that digital Mix engineers were the stupid ones when in fact it took the most talent to use this new system of recording.
+1... with a limitation:

I'm not convinced about the first part of your post LoL, I wouldn't say that someone who mixes way better to analog sucks as an engineer. kind of an all encompassing opinion which I don't share.

but certainly I agree with the part that I quoted.
Old 17th March 2010
  #71
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbuyuk View Post
I agree that.
I disagree with that description though. analog adds some compression, some frequency response anomalies, some distortions, and some noise (although often so little noise as to be meaningless).

those are why analog sounds different. and the way it all happens makes it sound more natural and musical in some pleasant ways.

but digital doesn't sound worse, it just sounds like what you actually recorded, the way you recorded it. if you don't like it, then the way you recorded it should be altered to make it sound like you want it to sound, or use a plugin that emulates the artifacts of analog tape recording.
Old 17th March 2010
  #72
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bigbone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunch View Post
Reality? Have you ever heard some of the other forms of music, such as jazz, blues or classical? Even 50's ska? C'mon...

I guess he's to buzy listening to the hard rock and metal to see there are other
form of music.........
Old 17th March 2010
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus77 View Post
in my experience, these individuals are not really "gear-minded" in the manner we, on this forum, would like to envision that they are.
That is what I have found, as well. While we're here arguing about which mic pre to use on toms (how farcical), the mindset of "the greats" is just to use whatever is laying around and get on with it.
Old 17th March 2010
  #74
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camus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus77 View Post
This thread typifies, in some ways, what's wrong with all of us Slutz. (Note that I'm including myself in the following statement.)

I am not a famous engineer by any stretch of the imagination. I have, however, worked alongside or observed several of the individuals continually lauded on this forum as "big guns." And I'd note that, in my experience, these individuals are not really "gear-minded" in the manner we, on this forum, would like to envision that they are.

Guys like Andy Johns work on whatever is required or available for the project for which they've been hired. And what makes them the engineers they are is precislely their ability to sidestep any sort of preciousness about gear in order to get the job done with whatever resources are at hand. This capacity, in fact, is what distinguishes such professionals from their dilettante counterparts.

Certainly, guys like CLA and M. Brauer have their own tried-and-true methods—and their workflow their "sound" depend, to some degree, on their preferences for gear. But their "sound towers"—no matter who large—aren't, we all know, where the magic comes from.

The question of sponsorship is another issue entirely. I am sure that Waves and JJP, Kramer, and CLA have mutually-beneficial deals, as they have actual products branded to represent actual people. To suggest that every big gun who uses an ICON is getting sponsorship from Digidesign (or, more accurately, AVID)—as that company is forced to downsize in the recession, re-examine its business model, and continue to devote considerable resources to RND in order to guarantee its market dominance—sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.

But, hey, I could be wrong.
No, you're not. One of the best posts I've ever read on here!
Old 17th March 2010
  #75
Gear Addict
 

re

it's call marketing.

i have a product and you are a VIP, I'll pay you so other person say, hey mr/miss X use that product..and so i sell more.

IMHO
andrew
Old 17th March 2010
  #76
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I can tell you from personal experience that Andy could give a Rat's ass about what pre for this and what pre for that though he does love vintage 312s. He is really not interested in discussing what freq to boost on xxxxxxxx. He will work with what's there.
He is about as non G.S as they get.
With gear though any good eng knows what he'd like to get the job done.
If he has his choice, API desk, plenty of 550As and 550Bs. A bunch of 1176s and at least one really good gate. A 480, 2 putlecs, 2254s and a SSL style comp for 2 buss. 1 AMX reverb.
We all have pieces that we like using.
Old 17th March 2010
  #77
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelley View Post

but digital doesn't sound worse, it just sounds like what you actually recorded, the way you recorded it. if you don't like it, then the way you recorded it should be altered to make it sound like you want it to sound, or use a plugin that emulates the artifacts of analog tape recording.
This is a wrong post. The process of digital conversion DEFINITELY alters sound. It DEFINITELY creates/causes artifacts and distortions.

The question becomes whether you think the artifacts caused by your chosen recording medium have a positive or negative impact on the program material. Or if your really miserable, which one ruins it the least :D.

But to promote digital conversion as getting exactly out what you put in is world class bull**** on a grand scale. A myth perpetuated my marketeers or people talking purely out of their ass with no real world experience worth talking about.
Old 17th March 2010
  #78
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
But to promote digital conversion as getting exactly out what you put in is world class bull**** on a grand scale
Agree completely. Terms like identical, exact, transparent reproduction are not accurate. Hear it for what it is and use it accordingly.

I will say during the last mixdown sessions we printed and compared DSD mixes to the MCI 2 trk and I do prefer the DSD mixes. Imaging was sharper though the bottom on tape still had that thang. We ended up using all the DSD mixes and none of the tape versions.
Old 17th March 2010
  #79
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
This is a wrong post. The process of digital conversion DEFINITELY alters sound. It DEFINITELY creates/causes artifacts and distortions.
Everything alters sound to a certain extend and tape definitely alters it more than good digital conversion but that alteration is what most people love it for in the first place.
Old 17th March 2010
  #80
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kikin View Post
Kids are listening those bands because of rock band and guitar hero.......

heh
At least something positive came out of those games.
Old 18th March 2010
  #81
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brendondp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
Whoops. I assumed we were talking about kids in bands.

I have no experience with what kids NOT in bands are doing.

Didn't mean to suggest that I did.

Gladly admit that I am TOTALLY out of touch with that demographic.

Best regards,

SM.
Kids I know:

A) Listen to a far broader range of music than most 'Slutz I've met.

B) Make music that is interesting and progressive, unlike many 'Slutz I've met.

C) Know the difference between Andy Johns and Glyn Johns and Ethan Johns.

D) Wear large white Wayfarer's, oversized t-shirts with Space Invader graphics, reissue Doc Martins and look like Robert Smith from Disintergration-era Cure. They also smoke a lot and think the use of irony is their birth-right.

Eerily similar to how I remember being in the 80's. Or, is that just how I want to remember myself. Hmmm...
Old 18th March 2010
  #82
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PatM01231's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.d.finley View Post
No they don't. They like Mastodon. And that stupid cartoon network band Dethclock.

Mastodon recorded to tape on their latest album...dumped to Pro Tools yes, but tracked to tape nonetheless.
Old 18th March 2010
  #83
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vudoo View Post
Everything alters sound to a certain extend and tape definitely alters it more than good digital conversion but that alteration is what most people love it for in the first place.
How do you quantify "more"?

I would not agree with that caveat at all.
Old 18th March 2010
  #84
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brendondp View Post
Kids I know:

A) Listen to a far broader range of music than most 'Slutz I've met.

B) Make music that is interesting and progressive, unlike many 'Slutz I've met.
.

then you've met gimps instead of slutz!!

Most kids I've met - even the talented ones - are really narrow in what they listen too....
Old 18th March 2010
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller View Post
It's good to see that Andy thinks the Icon sounds great. :-)
Don't worry, he will find something else next year. They always do. Consistancy is not a common trait here.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 18th March 2010
  #86
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
It doesn't sound as good as my vintage track ball.
You know they dont use the same quality plastic in new trackballs. They dont track as well. I know all the big boys us the vintage serial cable balls, but Ive always loved my cheap Chinese balls!

Amazingly.. there aint nothin like cheap Chinese balls. They sound amazing for the price. So all you pathetic losers losing sound quality using a mouse, try my balls. If you cant afford expensive German precison balls, the chinese balls are fine. Still way better sonically than a mouse.

But of course there will be those who argue "its not the balls". Balls have nothing to do with it. Its not which balls you use but what you do with your balls- thats the trick.

A great engineer can get over his balls limitations and still provide a pleasurable experience... But lets be real, balls count. If your balls dont work, you can swing the bat!

Wheres Ethan Winer to tell you balls only work right if you surround them with foam.... Otherwise you get standing waves on your balls...

And lets be honest, nobody wants anything standing on their balls!
Old 18th March 2010
  #87
The women prefer Ben-Wa balls.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
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