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Anyone NOT using a buss compressor? Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 27th January 2010
  #181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
I do the same thing.


However, if all you want to do is change the attack or release, something like the transient designer is more appropriate.


Take a 1 bar 8th note fill that's played on floor tom and snare simultaneously. You know the kind where they start quiet and build?

If you compress it enough so that you are adding attack to the first part of the fill, you have to compress enough that the last part will not get as loud as if it was uncompressed. So in this case, you've affected both the envelope and the dynamic range.

If you use the transient designer, you can affect the envelope while retaining the full natural dynamic range.

Do you see the difference I'm trying to point out?


I'm not saying that I use a transient designer for everything. I'm more likely to compress as I think most people are. And, if the final result is ideal for the song, great.

However, I don't think it's possible to compress in a way that affects the attack and release without additionally compressing the dynamic range - and, if the song has or needs a certain width of dynamic range, compression can't have the desired affect on the envelope without reducing the dynamic range more than you want to.


Or maybe I should specify "the most commonly discussed approaches to compression."

In my opinion, even though a compressor can be used for envelope shaping, envelope and dynamic range are two different things. And, if you use a compressor for envelope shaping, you risk compressing the dynamic range in a way that does not support your goal.
HEy Mike, first off I own transient designer and lot's of compressors, I know what they both do and after over 25 years of doing this I think I can pick which tool I want for which job, and and if I'm using a compressor with a slow attack setting it's because I want that sound and who said I wanted to retain the full natural dynamic range? If I don't want to have some compression and yet fool with the envelope I'd use TD.
Old 27th January 2010
  #182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
Total track count is not as important as simultaneous track count.
And your point is? Jim was just making a general comment about how absurd some of these high track count projects are and I pointed out that sometimes if they are well arranged you can have a lot of tracks. If you have 100 tracks all playing simultaneously the odds are you don't have great arrangement.
Old 27th January 2010
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
HEy Mike, first off I own transient designer and lot's of compressors, I know what they both do and after over 25 years of doing this I think I can pick which tool I want for which job, and and if I'm using a compressor with a slow attack setting it's because I want that sound and who said I wanted to retain the full natural dynamic range? If I don't want to have some compression and yet fool with the envelope I'd use TD.
Sometimes people feel the need to lecture you anyway
Old 27th January 2010
  #184
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superiorsound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad View Post
Well that's it. If I use a MB comp, I always mix through it. Throwing it on a the end, as you put it, "changes the relationship of the mix elements too much".

Also, if you sum OTB, why can't you monitor and mix through a software buss comp? Can't you just monitor the master summed stereo return when mixing?
i use to be the guy to flop it on at the end and it does change the whole feel I now mix into it and can get a true representation of when somethings working or not.
Old 27th January 2010
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superiorsound View Post
i use to be the guy to flop it on at the end and it does change the whole feel I now mix into it and can get a true representation of when somethings working or not.
If it's not working when do you know this?...In practice, when I'm under a time constraint (always) mixing into a comp from the beginning can be just much of a game changer...you may be fighting something and not know it until you pull it off, at which point your mix is severly skewed...I would say that if it's something you really now well or have the time to experiment with then at the beginning is a good idea, but if it's a new comp you are trying out, you won't know how everything is playing until half way into the mix...which could be a big waste of time potentially.
Old 27th January 2010
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glissando View Post
but if it's a new comp you are trying out, you won't know how everything is playing until half way into the mix...which could be a big waste of time potentially.
Experimenting is never a waste of time!
Old 27th January 2010
  #187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
And your point is? Jim was just making a general comment about how absurd some of these high track count projects are and I pointed out that sometimes if they are well arranged you can have a lot of tracks. If you have 100 tracks all playing simultaneously the odds are you don't have great arrangement.
I agree.

My point is that sometimes high track counts are a sign of people splitting things that don't need to be split. The putting verse parts on one and the chorus parts on another, even when it's the same sound/performace.
Old 27th January 2010
  #188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
HEy Mike, first off I own transient designer and lot's of compressors, I know what they both do and after over 25 years of doing this I think I can pick which tool I want for which job, and and if I'm using a compressor with a slow attack setting it's because I want that sound and who said I wanted to retain the full natural dynamic range? If I don't want to have some compression and yet fool with the envelope I'd use TD.
I missed the part where I said that you don't know what you're doing.

Read the arc of our discussion. While a compressor can affect the shape of the envelope, I think envelope shaping is it's own thing. It's not "the sound of compression" it's the sound of envelope shaping regardless of the device you use to do it.
Old 28th January 2010
  #189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
I missed the part where I said that you don't know what you're doing.

Read the arc of our discussion. While a compressor can affect the shape of the envelope, I think envelope shaping is it's own thing. It's not "the sound of compression" it's the sound of envelope shaping regardless of the device you use to do it.
Maybe in another life you were a school teacher but it sure felt you I was getting a lecture from you.
sometimes it is and sometimes the sound you're looking for is best achieved using a compressor to do that, sometimes not. When a compressor is used to shape an envelope the dynamic control aspect comes into play and that is a different sound. Sometimes you're looking to create some more energy in the track and compression can help achieve that
Old 15th March 2010
  #190
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JCRockit's Avatar
 

LOL! such passion over buss compression ! my 2 cents... if I want my stuff to translate from my studio monitors to the cheapo little puter speakers in someones office , I kinda have to do something on the 2 buss. Obviously you have to do it tastefully. Not only compression but eq and thumbsup to doing both in layers with a light touch.
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