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C12 Clones
Old 19th December 2009
  #1
Gear Head
 

C12 Clones

Im trying to figure out what is out there as far as a quality AKG C12 Clone. I got to work with a pair a few months back and i creamed my jeans. They sounded great in my tracking room. Problem is I dont have enough money to pick up a pair of vintage c12's. My price range is about 4k for a pair (im willing to buy used)

So i was thinking of trying out a pair of clones. Obvoisly ill try them out before i buy them, but i wanted to get a list going to know whats out there and what people that have them think of them?

So whats out there?

Here is the list so far:
-Peluso p12

thanks for you help!

-Ian
Old 19th December 2009
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meltdown50 View Post
Im trying to figure out what is out there as far as a quality AKG C12 Clone. I got to work with a pair a few months back and i creamed my jeans. They sounded great in my tracking room. Problem is I dont have enough money to pick up a pair of vintage c12's. My price range is about 4k for a pair (im willing to buy used)

So i was thinking of trying out a pair of clones. Obvoisly ill try them out before i buy them, but i wanted to get a list going to know whats out there and what people that have them think of them?

So whats out there?

Here is the list so far:
-Peluso p12

thanks for you help!

-Ian
The only mic what I'm aware of with that air quality is a "Manley Gold Reference".
Old 19th December 2009
  #3
Gear Addict
 
digitalM's Avatar
 

Hi Ian,

I think the P12 sounds great (to my ears the nicest mic from the Peluso range). I never compared it side by side to an original C12 though.
You might also want to check out Brauner mics! A pair of Phantom's or Phantera's can be very nice and will fit your budget.

Cheers,

Martijn
Old 19th December 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
wildpark's Avatar
 

just use the search function
Old 19th December 2009
  #5
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Sorry for the blatant promotion of my employer... but this is arguably a true "clone" as opposed to a "variation on a theme"... it is out of your budget range, but some things are worth the wait... or the monthly payment.

Peace.
Old 19th December 2009
  #6
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didier.brest's Avatar
Another replica (which I would like to get ): FLEA 12

FLEA microphones range
Old 19th December 2009
  #7
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waxx's Avatar
 

i know wunder made also a clone, the CM12H, but never used it so i don't know the quality and accuracy to the original.

The original is one of my top 3 favorite condensor mics off all time (together with an original M49 or a longbody U47)
Old 19th December 2009
  #8
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
Another replica (which I would like to get ): FLEA 12

FLEA microphones range
Flea 12 is awesome.

Highly recommended.
Old 19th December 2009
  #9
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tapehiss's Avatar
you could probably get a pair of akg "the tube" for 4k

also, a used pair of c12vr's, which are hit and miss the gearsluterz

i have a p12 and love it, but there is a magic to a real c12 that i feel makes it the best sounding mic ever imo when you use a good one...

cheap - avantone cv12 red mic, supposed to sound nice/or advanced audio

and the highend: telefunken/wunder as mentioned above..
Old 19th December 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 

In the C12 style category should also be considered ADK's Vienna II-AU and the TC 12-AU.
Old 19th December 2009
  #11
Gear Head
 

The Flea 12 should be on the line. It is an amazing mic. Never heard it directly compared to a C-12 unfortunately, but it is really a great microphone. Beautifully made, on top of that. The Manley Gold is also a fabulous mic. Cant' go wrong with these two beasts. I don't know if it can be compared to a C-12, but the Josephson C700A is also a microphone that deserves to be included in this category of super great mics.
Old 19th December 2009
  #12
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flute player's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Sorry for the blatant promotion of my employer... but this is arguably a true "clone" as opposed to a "variation on a theme"... it is out of your budget range, but some things are worth the wait... or the monthly payment.

Peace.
Sorry Charles, I want to add another good alternative heh Bees Neez Microphones

greetz,

Paul
Old 19th December 2009
  #13
Gear Addict
 
andrewenson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meltdown50 View Post
Im trying to figure out what is out there as far as a quality AKG C12 Clone. I got to work with a pair a few months back and i creamed my jeans. They sounded great in my tracking room. Problem is I dont have enough money to pick up a pair of vintage c12's. My price range is about 4k for a pair (im willing to buy used)

-Ian
i dont think you're gonna get a pair of good sounding c12 wannabees for 4k. most of the mics mentioned above dont sound anything like a c12 (cv12, vienna, vr)
as for the wunder. i think i'd stick with the cm12. the only difference between the cm12 and cm12h is the separate box for the pattern selector right? someone correct me if i'm wrong
i'm putting in an order for a cm12 soon
Old 19th December 2009
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
I didn't know they were making an original again, looks sweet.
Not saying anything about the quality of the current Telefunken products, but they are not making an "original" again...they bought the rights to the name, but they are not the same company (and the original Telefunken didn't even make the microphones themselves...AKG did).

Having said that, I don't think that anyone, including AKG themselves, would argue that AKG's C12VR is closer to the sound of an original C12 than Telefunken's current model is.
Old 19th December 2009
  #15
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tapehiss's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by flute player View Post
Sorry Charles, I want to add another good alternative heh Bees Neez Microphones
greetz,
Paul
do you use the phelicity flute player????????

if so, how did you like it?
Old 20th December 2009
  #16
I heard a vocal track that was recorded by a good friend of mine (he's a regular poster here at GS) with a Tele USA mic ... I dunno how it compares to the original but to put it simply the mic by itself sounds absolutely amazing ... it was the most stunning male vocal sound I have ever heard ... open, ultra smooth, airy without being too bright ... the esses were just perfect, the mids were so beautiful and detailed ... incredible sounding mic ... it may be expensive but it also sounds expensive, I've yet to hear anything better (and I've worked with high end classics enough to know how a great mic sounds like)...

I didn't hear the vocal by itself, I heard it in the context of a dense mix which impressed me even more.

EDIT : it was a tele 251, sorry for the confusion, oops.
Old 20th December 2009
  #17
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jjblair's Avatar
The C12VR doesn't sound anything like a C12. It sounds more like a U67 that it does a C12, even. (I'm not saying it sounds like a U67. I'm just saying it sonically has more in common with it that it does a C12.)
Old 20th December 2009
  #18
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flute player's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
do you use the phelicity flute player????????

if so, how did you like it?
No I am using the James.
I have looked to C12 / 251 like microphones.
But I noticed the high frequencies are being captured more.
The James has more mid and less high.
But after the james I might look at the Phelicity to get it for vocals.
For flute I have some great results with this new one from Cloud microphones.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-christmas.mp3

Greetz,


Paul
Old 20th December 2009
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
Resis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Sorry for the blatant promotion of my employer... but this is arguably a true "clone" as opposed to a "variation on a theme"... it is out of your budget range, but some things are worth the wait... or the monthly payment.

Peace.
Interesting!!
Old 22nd December 2009
  #20
Gear Addict
 
Suspects's Avatar
 

Telefunken USA C-12s

I have S/N 012 and 013, factory matched for me last month, as well as an AKG C-12VR that I purchased several years ago. The Telefunkens are serious musical instruments (and the best acoustic guitar mics I have ever experienced). the C-12VR is just another mic...

Dave/Suspect Studios




www.suspectstudios.com
Old 22nd December 2009
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewenson View Post
i dont think you're gonna get a pair of good sounding c12 wannabees for 4k. most of the mics mentioned above dont sound anything like a c12 (cv12, vienna, vr)
For my edification, are you referring to the Vienna, or the Vienna II-AU? They are very different mics.
Old 22nd December 2009
  #22
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 

i say try JJ audio... jim can put a CT12 capsule on a mic with custom transformers than can give you a true c12 sound...
a pair of them will be well under 4k
Old 22nd December 2009
  #23
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JCRockit's Avatar
 

How about C12A or C12B i have the C12B, very sweet mic and same capsule as the C12. They go in the 2g range if you can find one...
Old 22nd December 2009
  #24
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
Not saying anything about the quality of the current Telefunken products, but they are not making an "original" again...they bought the rights to the name, but they are not the same company (and the original Telefunken didn't even make the microphones themselves...AKG did).

Having said that, I don't think that anyone, including AKG themselves, would argue that AKG's C12VR is closer to the sound of an original C12 than Telefunken's current model is.
Really?

Yes, TELEFUNKEN does license the rights to the TELEFUNKEN name, BUT... we're building the CK-12 capsule off blueprints from 1953, we're using the original Haufe output transformer [made by Haufe from their original prints from 1953], the internals of the microphone are identical as possible with todays materials [and in some cases, slightly more "audiophile" components are employed as the original components are no longer available so we felt it was better to err on the side of "superior performance" in terms of noise, etc.].

Every part of the TELEFUNKEN "clone" is as close as possible to the original [though we did build the pattern selector into the power supply instead of AKG's original "outboard pattern selector... then again, so did AKG with their C-12 VR and "The Tube" prior to the C-12 VR].

While the C-12 VR is indeed still made by AKG, the capsule is different than the original, the output transformer is different than the original which is very probable to lead to a substantially different sound than a good condition original C-12. I will not comment on the sonics of the C-12 VR [unprofessional to do so in my current gig... but I believe it wasn't unprofessional to do so on my last gig so while I used to comment on the sonic qualities of other manufacturer's microphones, I generally refrain from that sort of thing these days].

We have an original C-12 here at the lab. Each and every TELEFUNKEN C-12 that leaves our building is tested against the benchmark "original".

So, while the name might be licensed, the attention to detail that goes into the construction of our "recreations" is as genuine as is possible in 2009.

Peace.
Old 22nd December 2009
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCRockit View Post
How about C12A or C12B i have the C12B, very sweet mic and same capsule as the C12. They go in the 2g range if you can find one...

The C12A is nothing like a C12, it's not even like a tube 414 like you'd expect. I did a search for vocalist/mic match about 15 years ago with 2 original c12's, a c24, a tele 251e, an M49, a u65 (cardioid only version of a u67), and a couple sheffield c12 clones. The sheffield clones sounded so much like the c12's it was scary. We went with the 251 for the record. My choice was the m49 but I was overruled. For another record later that year we used the sheffields for a great rock thing. The guy screamed so loud we needed 2 pop filters but it sounded awesome.
Old 23rd December 2009
  #26
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Really?

Yes, TELEFUNKEN does license the rights to the TELEFUNKEN name, BUT... we're building the CK-12 capsule off blueprints from 1953, we're using the original Haufe output transformer [made by Haufe from their original prints from 1953], the internals of the microphone are identical as possible with todays materials [and in some cases, slightly more "audiophile" components are employed as the original components are no longer available so we felt it was better to err on the side of "superior performance" in terms of noise, etc.].

Every part of the TELEFUNKEN "clone" is as close as possible to the original [though we did build the pattern selector into the power supply instead of AKG's original "outboard pattern selector... then again, so did AKG with their C-12 VR and "The Tube" prior to the C-12 VR].

While the C-12 VR is indeed still made by AKG, the capsule is different than the original, the output transformer is different than the original which is very probable to lead to a substantially different sound than a good condition original C-12. I will not comment on the sonics of the C-12 VR [unprofessional to do so in my current gig... but I believe it wasn't unprofessional to do so on my last gig so while I used to comment on the sonic qualities of other manufacturer's microphones, I generally refrain from that sort of thing these days].

We have an original C-12 here at the lab. Each and every TELEFUNKEN C-12 that leaves our building is tested against the benchmark "original".

So, while the name might be licensed, the attention to detail that goes into the construction of our "recreations" is as genuine as is possible in 2009.

Peace.
I have mixed feelings about all of that. Does anyone from the original TELEFUNKEN work at modern TELEFUNKEN USA?

I'd also feel weird if Gunter Wagner licensed the Neumann name and called his microphones "Neumann U47's" while using a copy of the original badge. And that's Gunter Wagner, who's a very respected dude with skills to back up his claims of recreating the U47.

TELEFUNKEN USA rebranded $75 chinese mics and sold them for over $1000 until they were caught, and has also done some very weird propaganda here on GS....

Just my 2 cents. I know the mics probably sound great, but it's also a very sheister-y kind of company which I'd be wary of in terms of honesty and integrity.
Old 23rd December 2009
  #27
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass5 View Post
I have mixed feelings about all of that. Does anyone from the original TELEFUNKEN work at modern TELEFUNKEN USA?

I'd also feel weird if Gunter Wagner licensed the Neumann name and called his microphones "Neumann U47's" while using a copy of the original badge. And that's Gunter Wagner, who's a very respected dude with skills to back up his claims of recreating the U47.

TELEFUNKEN USA rebranded $75 chinese mics and sold them for over $1000 until they were caught, and has also done some very weird propaganda here on GS....
That is off topic.

The TELE C12 is majestic. You should try it.
Old 23rd December 2009
  #28
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
That is off topic.

The TELE C12 is majestic. You should try it.
Off topic or embarrassing?



If true, that is. Where's the proof?
Old 23rd December 2009
  #30
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
I don't care about the past/history. I am not doing a research paper. Fletcher has explained more than a lions share of knowledge about what they are doing out in CT with their product, and on the question about the M16/Apex connection. I can tell you the current iteration "M16 Mk2" has nothing to do with the Apex 460. As to who/what/when/why, well, lets just say that if you hear the TELE C12 in action, you would not give a **** about any Apex POS.
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