The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Ribbon mic for violin Ribbon Microphones
Old 5th December 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Ribbon mic for violin

I'm looking at getting one good ribbon for mainly violin/fiddle. I've got some nice condensers, but I'm looking for a smooth, vintage sound (not too dark though). Anybody have preferences between the Coles 4038/4040, the Royer 121 or the Beyer M160?

I live on a remote island (if only it was a warm one!) so opportunities for shootouts are limited.

Cheers, W
Old 5th December 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfish View Post
I'm looking at getting one good ribbon for mainly violin/fiddle. I've got some nice condensers, but I'm looking for a smooth, vintage sound (not too dark though). Anybody have preferences between the Coles 4038/4040, the Royer 121 or the Beyer M160?

I live on a remote island (if only it was a warm one!) so opportunities for shootouts are limited.

Cheers, W
Recently did violin recording with several ribbons.
AEA 440 was absolutelly the best one (at 70-80 cm distance), definitelly not too dark, smooth and very natural with excellent balance of space. It's bit on expensive side, but unbelievably useful mic for tracking in good rooms.
Coles would be my second choice.
Old 5th December 2009
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks for the reply. The 440 sounds like it is an amazing mic for sure. Too expensive for the moment though. What about the AEA R84--any love there? Would you take a Coles 4040 over the 84?
Old 5th December 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 

My R84 is my go-to for violin now. Very sweet. I haven't used a Coles or a Royer, but I have a pair of M160's and prefer the AEA.
Old 5th December 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
Another thumbsup for the R84. I don't have experience with other ribbons other than the really cheap ones years ago, but the R84 rocks (generally with a Great River pre).
Old 5th December 2009
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Gretschman's Avatar
 

Shure

You may want to Demo the new Shure ribbon .

Shure bought out Crowley and Tripp last summer .

They make a " Vocal" mic " which is the " El Diablo" that Crowley and Tripp made .

It has a Roswelite ribbon in it . That ribbon expands the dynamic range of the mic .

You may want to ask your Shure retailer to contact the Shure rep. and ask him to send you a mic to demo . They have them available .

The mic that you actually want , is a Crowley and Tripp Procenium . It is a vintage sound with a much better motor and a higher output
and was designed to record strings .
I don't know if any vendors have any of those left .

The other mic that C&T made for that use was called " The Sound Stage "
A little less vintage and more neutral .

Always ask for a mic to demo . They always have access to them .


Shure KSM353 Premier Bi-directional Ribbon Microphone Details
The KSM353 is a premium bi-directional ribbon microphone crafted for pristine audio in studio and concert hall applications. Proprietary Roswellite™ technology provides revolutionary ribbon resilience and durability under extreme conditions. Hand assembled in the USA from state-of-the art transducers, transformers and metals as the pinnacle of Shure quality for prestigious vocal and acoustic performances.
Old 5th December 2009
  #7
AEA R84 = Fat, huge, classic with a very good prox. effect, great for mid distance miking, offers top end clarity and bottom octave ballz. The new A840 is great as well, and would be a excellent call for really quiet sources that need R84 love. You definitely won't be worrying about preamps with the A840.

Beyer M160 = awesome choice, highly directional with INSANE REJECTION!!!! [like a flashlight] really focused, crisp, warm, smooth accurate. Not too dark, Not at all bright, very balanced. Wonderful Attack [Inviting transient response].

Coles 4038 = Dark, Mellow, Detailed, buttery, classic midrange texture. Rich, inviting and warm as a toaster oven. This one has serious SEX appeal all over the place. Though, for strings I think I would favor the Coles 4040, which has a better presence at the top.

The other upper tier AEA stuff, the A440, 44CX are amazing microphones for whatever you got.
Old 5th December 2009
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretschman View Post
You may want to Demo the new Shure ribbon .

Shure bought out Crowley and Tripp last summer .

They make a " Vocal" mic " which is the " El Diablo" that Crowley and Tripp made .

It has a Roswelite ribbon in it . That ribbon expands the dynamic range of the mic .

You may want to ask your Shure retailer to contact the Shure rep. and ask him to send you a mic to demo . They have them available .

The mic that you actually want , is a Crowley and Tripp Procenium . It is a vintage sound with a much better motor and higher a output
and was designed to record strings .
I don't know if any vendors have any of those left .

The other mic that C&T made for that use was called " The Sound Stage "
A little less vintage and more neutral .

Always ask for a mic to demo . They always have access to them .
Old 5th December 2009
  #9
Gear Head
 
chrislongwood's Avatar
 

I recently used a coles 4038 on a super bright violin.. the "dark roast" characteristics of the coles matched really well with that particular violin.

If your violin is a little more on the darker side, try a brighter ribbon.
Old 5th December 2009
  #10
Well!

If you can find an old BK11 at reasonable cost that would be great, I would give Steven Sank a ring at Talking Dog at least you will know that the ribbon is set up and performing as well as possible when shipped.
Any of Wes Dooley's AEA mic's would be fab too.
I think of the R121 as being more of a specialist power soaked guitar cab mic, where it really shines, Especially with an old Altec 417 speaker in front of it, all real ribbon mic's need a specialist ribbon mic pre-amp to get the real best out of them.
Haven't used any roswellite ribbon'd stuff as yet, my strongest ribbon is RCA DX 77 stock
1.6 micron pure aluminum. So thinner than most!. the only real advantage of roswellite may be that its supposed to be nearly completely idiot proof?.
Old 5th December 2009
  #11
Lives for gear
 

A840,
incredible, use pretty much any preamp without all the noise you'd expect from non ribbon pre's

My A840 matched with my Fearn VT-2 is incredible to say the least.
Old 5th December 2009
  #12
Lives for gear
 
MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 

A Royer SF-1 would also be a good choice. The ribbon is lighter, faster and more articulate than the 121. Great for voice and acoustic instruments.
Old 5th December 2009
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Thank you so much guys. Loads of useful information. Gearslutz at its best.
Old 5th December 2009
  #14
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Since most ribbons are at least somewhat darker than a condenser, you're good to go with a variety of choices. Ribbons take EQ so well, especially top end boosts if needed. Having said that, the R84 would still be a first reach for me on violin.

War
Old 5th December 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfish View Post
I'm looking at getting one good ribbon for mainly violin/fiddle. I've got some nice condensers, but I'm looking for a smooth, vintage sound (not too dark though). Anybody have preferences between the Coles 4038/4040, the Royer 121 or the Beyer M160?

I live on a remote island (if only it was a warm one!) so opportunities for shootouts are limited.

Cheers, W
the new shure ribbons should be considered for classical
the cleanest ribbon I've heard by a long shot actually not even a fight
Do they use a newer ribbon material? not sure but smothing new is up
with those mics

If you want grit any of the old school one will work
I like m160 price is right very smooth on violin
but not super clean.
Old 5th December 2009
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Gretschman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfish View Post
I'm looking at getting one good ribbon for mainly violin/fiddle. I've got some nice condensers, but I'm looking for a smooth, vintage sound (not too dark though). Anybody have preferences between the Coles 4038/4040, the Royer 121 or the Beyer M160?

I live on a remote island (if only it was a warm one!) so opportunities for shootouts are limited.

Cheers, W
Ok , I had to google your home country , It's new to me , so I had to check it out .

Wow ! That place looks amazing .

While I've been to Scotland several times , I never knew about those Islands.

Very Cool ! Quite beautiful .

I have always laughed about the language thing though .
We all speak english ,
yet , we can't understand each others conversation ! Ha ! Ha !
Maybe it's better that way . Ha Ha

I'll bet there are some killer places to record there with all those old stone buildings .
Old 5th December 2009
  #17
Here for the gear
 

What style of violin/fiddle music will you be recording, and to what extent will it be tracked live with other instruments? Also is there a particular space you will be recording in, and what is it like (large, small, live, dead, nice, weird)?

I had some sessions last week tracking for a folk record (irish modern/trad cross) where I had an m160 on fiddle. Sounded really nice, not dark at all (and takes eq really well anyway). Quite a woody tone with a detailed midrange - but to be honest if the fiddle is close mic'ed i think the mic position is probably more responsible for tone than the mic (though having said that ribbons seem to love strings). Rejection is great for live tracking situations or not so hot rooms. But it tolerates movement by the performer quite well. Sounds good slightly off-axis.

Would have liked to have tried my r84 but it was otherwise occupied on the flute and whistle (where it sounded awesome - best flute recordings I've got to date). There is a video on you tube of a george massenburg session with an r84 as close mic on fiddle. (link here: YouTube - Mother's Child - Dawn)

Cheers,

Danny
Old 5th December 2009
  #18
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
I just finished a project recording a fiddle/hammered dulcimer duet. I used a blend of a Royer 121 and a Brauner phantom and it worked really well on a somewhat bright sound fiddle.
Old 6th December 2009
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Guitar Zero's Avatar
Check this video from George Massenberg's studio. R84 on violin.
YouTube - Mother's Child - Dawn
Old 6th December 2009
  #20
Lives for gear
 

We use a Royer 121 and a U67, with the Royer at about 75% of the blend or more. Tried the Coles and thought it was too gooey and slow for fast moving fiddle music. Beyer 160's have served us well sometimes, but our fave these days is the 121...

good luck...
Old 6th December 2009
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

Yeah, it's a pretty stunning place when the sun shines, and pretty impressive still in a force 12! Not too hard to get to really--an hour's flight from Glasgow. Check it out next time you're in the UK. You don't get too many superb acoustic spaces immediately here in the islands, but you certainly do on the mainland. There are some nice village halls though. The churches have brilliant acoustics, but recording is off-limits for most of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretschman View Post
Ok , I had to google your home country , It's new to me , so I had to check it out .

Wow ! That place looks amazing .

While I've been to Scotland several times , I never knew about those Islands.

Very Cool ! Quite beautiful .

I have always laughed about the language thing though .
We all speak english ,
yet , we can't understand each others conversation ! Ha ! Ha !
Maybe it's better that way . Ha Ha

I'll bet there are some killer places to record there with all those old stone buildings .
Old 6th December 2009
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Hi Danny--so the R84 is good on flute as well? Well, I might be getting sold on it.

Spaces can vary, but not too much weird thankfully. My control room is on the small side, but it is treated (bass traps and a few diffusors), and we'll be doing some preproduction stuff in there which might well end up on the album. After that, we're decamping to a medium sized village hall with high ceilings and lots of wood. It has a warm, lively acoustic. Really nice. We'll be tracking there with other instruments: upright bass, percussion and guitar.

How does the R84 fare in a smaller room? Just thinking of the control room here.

Gretschman and Robert Shaw--thanks for the tip about the Shure mics. I'll try to check them out.

[QUOTE=johnnybigmoose;4856542]What style of violin/fiddle music will you be recording, and to what extent will it be tracked live with other instruments? Also is there a particular space you will be recording in, and what is it like (large, small, live, dead, nice, weird)?]
Old 6th December 2009
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfish View Post
Hi Danny--so the R84 is good on flute as well? Well, I might be getting sold on it.

Spaces can vary, but not too much weird thankfully. My control room is on the small side, but it is treated (bass traps and a few diffusors), and we'll be doing some preproduction stuff in there which might well end up on the album. After that, we're decamping to a medium sized village hall with high ceilings and lots of wood. It has a warm, lively acoustic. Really nice. We'll be tracking there with other instruments: upright bass, percussion and guitar.

How does the R84 fare in a smaller room? Just thinking of the control room here.
Haven't tried the R84 on flute. I'm sure it would be nice, though I generally like an LDC (my 1972 U-87 has worked well) to pick up more of the air.

Using any bi-directional mic in a small room can be tricky, but will work fine if the room is balanced and the mic placed strategically. I've placed several STC Tube Traps behind my R84 when using it for vocals in a big room, and a number of people have mentioned using a Reflexion Filter the same way.
Old 6th December 2009
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitar Zero View Post
Check this video from George Massenberg's studio. R84 on violin.
YouTube - Mother's Child - Dawn
wow bands record live still?

Old 6th December 2009
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

Well, I think I've just found a mint cond R84 for $725. Price seems pretty good.

BTW--anyone used these through a 1073?
Old 6th December 2009
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfish View Post
Well, I think I've just found a mint cond R84 for $725. Price seems pretty good.

BTW--anyone used these through a 1073?
No, but I often use it with great results through my Aurora GTQC. Should be a similar vibe.
Old 6th December 2009
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Joram's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
wow bands record live still?
i hope to do a recording with an 8-man band soon. I'm looking forward to it! Incl. violin, so i am following this thread with great interest.
Old 7th December 2009
  #28
Here for the gear
 

Will - I haven't used the R84 for recording in a smaller deader room, although the live room we were tracking in the other day was fairly small and it faired well. You can always use a reflection filter or something similar to tame the rear. I did use my m160 on fiddle in the vocal booth though (very small and very dead but necessary for separation on a couple of tracks) where it worked really well. The hypercardioid pattern helps. But it sounds like the R84 could work in many of the spaces you will be using.

And yes it sounds great on flute IMHO thumbsup

seanmccoy - Interestingly in one session we put up a U87 next to the R84 and auditioned the two. Myself, the house engineer and the flautist all picked the R84. In comparison to the sound in the room the u87 sounded like it was hyping the air sounds it a weird way. I recommend giving it a try.

I've worked with this particular flautist before and used/auditioned various mics (u87, 414, km184, milab dc96b, violet finger and more) and the r84 smokes them to date - he agrees and is considering getting one I think. Obviously down to the instrument, performer, room and personal taste though. heh

Sorry... don't mean to sidetrack the thread onto flute.

Cheers,

Danny
Old 7th December 2009
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Jake Dempsey's Avatar
 

I have 2 Peluso R14s and one SR14 (stereo r14). The R14 is my go-to for violin/fiddle. Smooth top end, pleasing mid response. It's pretty "vintage" sounding without being too dark. John Peluso modeled it after the RCA 44, believe. I've never used a 44 so I don't have any frame of reference for a comparison. I do know that the R14 sounds damn good. I use them on guitar cabs, drum OH, vocals, acoustic guitar, (GREAT rejection from the null spot when recording vocal/guitar together. Great in a MS setup.) FOK drum room, flute, upright bass, you name it. They are awesome. No, I do not work for Peluso. . Good price at about $800 street value too. I recommend this mic enthusiastically to anyone asking about ribbons. Pairs very well with the UA 610, Pacifica, and API 512c.
Old 7th December 2009
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybigmoose View Post
seanmccoy - Interestingly in one session we put up a U87 next to the R84 and auditioned the two. Myself, the house engineer and the flautist all picked the R84. In comparison to the sound in the room the u87 sounded like it was hyping the air sounds it a weird way. I recommend giving it a try.

I've worked with this particular flautist before and used/auditioned various mics (u87, 414, km184, milab dc96b, violet finger and more) and the r84 smokes them to date - he agrees and is considering getting one I think. Obviously down to the instrument, performer, room and personal taste though. heh
Thanks, Danny, I'll definitely give it a shot next time.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
markr041 / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
2
Pandoraefretum / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
16
wkpowers / Geekslutz Forum
9
Charles Cook / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
14

Forum Jump
Forum Jump