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Antelope Audio 10m Atomic Clock getting sold off by owners? Digital Converters
Old 25th November 2009
  #1
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Antelope Audio 10m Atomic Clock getting sold off by owners?

Come on guys, spill the beans. I can't help notice 3 of these on sale this month alone by guys here and Ebay. Whats the story on this piece? Or is it just this time of the year?

Is this $5000 clock really worth its price tag?
Old 25th November 2009
  #2
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i've used it. It's worth it. The question is can you afford to hang on to it when the economy is tanked?

For some reason I'm not surprised that if people have to sell things off they're trying to get rid of items that still have resale value now but may not in a few years (read: anything computer related)

Wish I had the money to pick up one of these used right now...
Old 25th November 2009
  #3
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Fletcher's Avatar
It is well worth the money!!! The "Atomic Clock" is an add on to their base model [I forget numbers] so if its the "add on" part you'll still need the base unit and if its the base unit they're selling w/o the "Atomic Clock" additional unit then $5k is steep.

If its both units for $5k I would recommend you jump on it and never look back!!! It [and possibly the Grim] are the only two clocks I've ever heard increase the clarity and detail I can get from a RADAR system.

No kiddin'!!

Peace.
Old 25th November 2009
  #4
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surflounge's Avatar
Fletcher is right...
“The TRINITY & 10M combination is the best ****in thing i've ever ****in heard. BUY THIS ****!”
Antelope Audio
Old 25th November 2009
  #5
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The only thing it could do for you, after all the logistics of getting from it to the PLL in your converter, is give you absolutely perfect pitch.

But no converter on the market today has a timing error anywhere in the vicinity of an humanly audible pitch difference.

And that pitch correctness will only remain true when playing back through that same clock.

Having a $10,000 atomic clock in your rack will, however, make you feel smug!
Old 26th November 2009
  #6
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Spicemix, if you ain't heard it you need to hear it. I didn't have the dosh to pony up for the thing, but I heard the difference with no struggle at all. I'm not trying to "legitimize" a purchase I made, I'm sharing a palpable experience.

There is a difference.
Old 26th November 2009
  #7
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Listening to you junkies I would stay broke! Off to search "atomic clock" WTF.....I need to seriously cancel my internet services!
Old 26th November 2009
  #8
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...

Last edited by Erik Thomas; 6th November 2010 at 06:23 AM.. Reason: not worth it
Old 26th November 2009
  #9
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More power to Igor Levin! We need geniuses pushing the envelope like that!
Old 26th November 2009
  #10
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...

Last edited by Erik Thomas; 6th November 2010 at 06:23 AM.. Reason: still not worth it
Old 26th November 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Thomas View Post
Yeah I dont mean to go overboard with the praise....but, he is fking brilliant. I remember sitting next to him on the plane and he was just doodling schematic diagrams on paper napkins. Total engineer lost in thought wondering about possibilities. He talked a lot about the atomic clock and how he wanted to take the AardSync II's digital clocking ability and improve on it in every way with the ribidium atomic clock etc. Stuff way over my head....lol... but I was impressed that he did care a great deal about "getting it right" and not just coming up with lessor quality gear that he could sell...At that time there was not the financial capital with Aardvark, to do the necessary R and D and product development to get it out on the market.

It looks like he has it going now with Antelope... and I hope to be able to check it out sometime.
Nice, good to hear guys like this working their dreams and bettering the science of audio. Definitely need to hear this thing in action.

I am happy with my Big Ben, but if there is something a little better. Would be nice to get it in the studio.

Thanks for everyone's feedback.
Old 26th November 2009
  #12
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Clocks and distributors are a good thing, no doubt, but I'd like to put in my opinion here -

A well designed clock, let's say in a converter, should sound the same whether clocked internally or externally. Fact.
A device which sounds different when it is clocked externally (be it better or worse), as oppose to internally, will be susceptible to jitter. Whereas the good clock will have great jitter rejection and be able to regenerate a rock solid and high quality clock and signal at its output regardless of the device it is synchronized to.

So:

I say that the idea to purchase an external clock simply to improve the sound of a, or some, devices is a flawed theory.
In fact, you should slave your best clocks to the worst clock! If your worst clock is set to internal then it will not be susceptible from external jitter (plus it was designed and specced primarily to work on an internal clock), whereas the better designed clocks will be able to deal with jitter effectively and won't be bothered by clocking to a poor clock.

To reiterate - clock distributors are great, handy but not always necessary. If you have that kind of money to spend then just buy a good converter with a well designed clock in it. That's why good converters are so damned expensive.

To me it seems a waste to purchase an external clock simply to improve the sound of your current gear.

I hope this makes some sense!

Thanks.
Old 26th November 2009
  #13
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I agree, in theory it's flawed.

Take the 10M, plug it in to a trinity and put it in your rack. Go back and forth for, lets say, 30 seconds. Then tell me what you think. All I can say is that I was flat out shocked. Have I spent 5k on one yet? Don't have it to spare. But I will as soon as I can. It's hard to find pieces of gear that will elevate an entire studio.
Old 26th November 2009
  #14
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What AC power cords are you guys using with the 10m/Trinity?
Old 26th November 2009
  #15
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...

Last edited by Erik Thomas; 6th November 2010 at 06:23 AM.. Reason: whatever tekis
Old 26th November 2009
  #16
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Theory's aside what the the Atomic clock does is undeniable..yes i've used it and compared A/b'd w/ and without.
its a little expensive and imo worth the money.
what it does to apogee 16x conversion is really really good.
Although personally I don't think it necessarily replaces the effect's of a well maintained 16 track 2 inch machine on drums,I know of one very mint Studer 827 that was put up for sale specifically because of the natural open-ness/depth and width it added to the apogee convertors.
Old 26th November 2009
  #17
AB3
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I could care less about theory. I go by my ears. I have the Antelope Isochrone OCX and to my ears it makes everything sound better, using it with an Aurora 16 and a Lavry Blue. Even with a regular AC cable!

Now I have not tried the atomic 10M - but until I LISTEN to it, I am not going to judge it.

It would be wise to test one out before purchasing or to buy it from a dealer than allows returns.

Best,
AB
Old 26th November 2009
  #18
tekis
Guest
Clocks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Thomas View Post
Here is a description of what Antelope does with their clocking, calling it ACS:

"Connecting a device to the OCX will make it sound noticeably better. This is achieved with Antelope's exclusive Acoustically Focused Clocking technology (AFC). AFC is the 3rd generation of DDS, a technology introduced over ten years ago by Isochrone engineer Igor Levin with his ground breaking Aardsync master clock. The AardSync was immediately recognized as the industry's best sounding clock. It's successor, the AardSyncII, provided even greater sonic benefits with its 2nd generation DDS technology. This legacy of amazing sound continues to evolve with AFC. AFC was designed to provide far more than impressive specs, Advanced engineering combined with exhaustive listening tests culminated in AFC's extraordinary sound."


I can correlate this claim, with what I saw on the APII test of the Aardsync II vs. other clocking devices (Rosendahl, Apogee, Digi PT HD etc.) ... What was shown on the tests were that the AardSync II showed even harmonic spikes across the spectrum of harmonic frequencies....where as the other clocking devices showed uneven and ultimately unstable harmonic spikes over the same spectrum.

This could be what Antelope is referring to in the design of the AFC clocking technology and what it does to the audio quality. Again, Igor developed this technology and its his stuff, no one else does exactly the same thing. So, its not just a base "jitter" spec, it is much more.

Ill try to dig up that study and APII spectrum and post it if I can find it.
I demoed the Aardsync II back 11 years ago when I first got a Radar II. The guy who recommended it said, "Everybody that has ProTools gets one, you're gonna want/need one as soon as you hear it, blah, blah, blah..." I rented one, we hooked it up and sent it back. Same thing with the Big Ben. Now $5k for clock? You're trippin' right?! Or is it $10k?! When I think about what $5-10k would buy, another "clock" isn't even on my list. The "AFC" that you're hawking above is just something the manufacturers' voodoo that they have cooked up. It's like "imaging", "soundstage", "artifacts", "phase anomalies", "group delay", etc. You read about it in a manual or an advert and you think you can hear it. Then you talk about how great your system sounds with "AFC" and all the GearMonkeys start to crow and beat their chests about it. And then "AFC" enters the vocabulary around here just like "artifacts" and "imaging..." Why don't you go out and move that mic? It will affect the sound more than an expensive clock. When I first started out, I asked a senior engineer if expensive cable sounded better. He said, "Yes it does--for about 15 minutes. Then it sounds the same as it did before you changed the cable."

Last edited by tekis; 26th November 2009 at 11:48 PM.. Reason: [email protected]#$%^&*()_GearMonkeys!09
Old 27th November 2009
  #19
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...

Last edited by Erik Thomas; 6th November 2010 at 06:23 AM.. Reason: cant argue with stupid people
Old 27th November 2009
  #20
The Improvement of a System with an Antelope 10M and with any of their clocks is undeniable and totally clear.

and Igor Levin is a Genius .......a scientist!
Old 27th November 2009
  #21
tekis
Guest
"AFC"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Thomas View Post
^ That is fine tekis, your opinion and take on things...

I just want to be very clear here: What I state is my opinion and experience and Im not here "hawking things".
I dont work for Antelope in any capacity and have no personal interest in this.

IMHO that is not a good choice of words that you chose to use because you come off as confrontational, personal and maybe a little arrogant too...., but it is what it is.

Im just stating my experiences....just as you have stated your experiences with clocking.

If a person with professional ears can not hear differences in stereo imaging between clocks and converters in controlled environments...well that is an issue for that person to figure out as to why and how. If it is not worth it to them to investigate it further, then fine, that is their personal choice.

Im also not here to debate, or to make claims about "what you hear" so in return when you make claims about "what I think I hear" and in particular that my ears are just marketing-influenced....well damn...I have to call that out because that is just making assumptions and you know what they say about ass-umptions? So I feel that I need to clarify a few things that you alluded to and assigned to me. If you have a personal issue that you'd wish to discuss, please PM me and I'd be happy to discuss offline.
Sorry, I didn't see much in your posts about "what you ACTUALLY HEARD".
Old 27th November 2009
  #22
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tekis View Post
..You read about it in a manual or an advert and you think you can hear it. Then you talk about how great your system sounds with "AFC" and all the GearMonkeys start to crow and beat their chests about it. And then "AFC" enters the vocabulary around here just like "artifacts" and "imaging..."
So lemme get this straight.
..you hate Gearslutz.
we're all clueless and deaf -
you obviously know better than all of us without hearing it.
Got it.
Old 27th November 2009
  #23
tekis
Guest
"Go out and buy 'X' and...

...your tracks will automatically sound better!"

The GearSlutz Credo
Old 27th November 2009
  #24
AB3
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I do not think that anyone who has experienced an external clock making their tracks, or entire mix, sound better, is saying that this means that the music, mics, placement, people, etc. do not matter. It is just that if everything else is good, some people (including me) have found that an external clock can make something that is already good, sound better.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tekis View Post
...your tracks will automatically sound better!"

The GearSlutz Credo
Old 27th November 2009
  #25
I have an SSL Alphalink converter. Pretty good on it's own, awesome with my Antelope OCX. When I freelance at more budget of studios that don't have one I bring a preamp with me. (dbx 386) It has a digital out and therefore it's own clock. The interesting thing is I can hear the difference in playback immediately upon changing whatever their audio interface is over to the external clock. It just sounds smoother, and more together, and thats just the clock in a $500 preamp.

That's for the low end, for the more mid-high end I used a RME ADI-8DS for 4 years at my music partner's studio. Then he got a Big Ben, instant improvement. Placebo effect? I don't think so, because we've blind tested it and I can tell him, internal or external every time. Clocks are not the end all be all, but for whatever reason I can hear'em and prefer the sound. Maybe it's extra jitter from the PLL but who knows maybe that changes harmonics in a likeable way to me.

Would a 10m improve an AD/DA16x that has the C777 (big ben) inside it? I haven't heard it. I would think however at the $5000 a 10m costs that they'd get too many returns to stay in business if it wasn't an improvement over most people's systems they went into.
Old 27th November 2009
  #26
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
I had a conversation with Michael Brauer about the 10M Atomic clock a while back. And I'd say most here would agree he's got pretty decent ears and judgment, LOL. heh

He stated unequivocally that the difference was so easily apparent that he immediately purchased the unit after demoing the one that had been brought by his studio. And David Kahne felt the exact same way. And Joe Zook.

There's theory, and then there's the real world. And if in the real world a piece of equipment yields significant improvement, that's all that matters, regardless of whether in "theory" that shouldn't be the case.
Old 27th November 2009
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
. I would think however at the $5000 a 10m costs that they'd get too many returns to stay in business if it wasn't an improvement over most people's systems they went into.

This makes sense.
Old 27th November 2009
  #28
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It could be worth $10K to be able to claim your studio is better than others because you have some magic and expensive device with a Hollywood name and description.

"Why should you come here? I'm running on Rubidium. Does that other place have an atomic clock? Hell no. Those bozos couldn't even hear it if they tried. Heyah! "

It's easier to pull this off if you believe it yourself, and you have a bunch of other guys urging you to believe it.

So it's true! heh


(Don't click here or anywhere like it)
Old 27th November 2009
  #29
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No one would book a studio based on what clock they have. If they would, Big Ben has better brand recognition anyway.

Choose gear based on how much money you have to spend and how it sounds. Try before buy.
Old 12th October 2010
  #30
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i have 10M now here in test and i does improve the sound someway... you can hear the details better.. did few test drives with and with out it.
stereo export tru hedd+some out board.. and yes there is a difference.. but is it worth 5k you have to calculate it your self...
we are blanning to use the same atomic on two differend OCX one in mastering room and one in studio so then it is only 2.5k / room !
Also i did try it with OCX-V alone and we didnt find anything segnificant between protools clock vs. that OCX-V alone.
with lot of converters /tracks i think you will hear bigger differences.
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