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Antelope Audio 10m Atomic Clock getting sold off by owners? Digital Converters
Old 8th February 2011
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX View Post
The fine difference can be heard on an IPOD clear as day. I run multiple converters all locked into a master clock. Hardware inserts all over the mix. So the AD and DA are constantly working on my table.
I believe you. And I suspect that it is because you are running a complex digital rig with multiple converters that you hear a benefit from using a master clock, not because external clocks somehow automatically always improve the sound of converters as is so often stated by some people.

As has been said many times on GS by very knowledgeable members - use a master clock when combining multiple digital devices, don't use external clock to try to improve the sound of a single device.

.
Old 9th February 2011
  #92
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Tom H's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
What isn't determined here besides anectdotal evidence is whether that timing accuracy of an external clock improves over the internal clock of a stand alone digital device.
Do you mean if an external clock like the Antelope could improve sample rate accuracy on say a TC System 6000 within a digital system? Regardless of ADA...? I don't know.
Old 9th February 2011
  #93
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Tom H's Avatar
 

I am under the impression that the converters themselve play the biggest role in how an external clock is affecting the sound. Some converters are simply better designed to handle external clocks.

So maybe a certain clock-cable-converter combination can lead to an audible improvement in a digital system while another combination indeed can make things worse.
Old 12th February 2011
  #94
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom H View Post
Do you mean if an external clock like the Antelope could improve sample rate accuracy on say a TC System 6000 within a digital system? Regardless of ADA...? I don't know.
we have 10M and with blind test it did improve the sound quality. same files with or with out the 10M and the one witch had the 10M where some way more detailed. it is a expensive box and i dont think it effects on digital units that is if you are using the 6000 in aes , but if you have the analog card there it will do the trick.
Try it out your self and if you dont like it dont buy it
Old 12th February 2011
  #95
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
ask someone to rename the files... and write down the key file.
there you have your blind test...
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-24bit-dry.wav
vs.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-24bit-dry.wav
from:
Drawmer M-Clock DMS-1 vs. Apogee Big Ben
These are different takes! Differently played! Who would stage a double blind test on clocking differences using different performances?

Quote:
These are mp4s! There's an insane amount of encoding related differences in those files already. Who on earth would stage a comparison from a lossy, perceptual compression format?

Also, the snare sample player timing is significantly different. They are not the same source files... / there are differences in there that have nothing to do with clocking.

.....

Either those staging these tests are lacking knowledge about decent methodology, or they really want to create test scenarios in which the procedure itself creates differences.

If any of those samples are by you, Dubai (or Goldmember, or whatever other nicknames you may go by), then please spend some time on learning some basic scientific testing methodology. Last time we talked in some thread, you showed (after your hundreds and hundreds of posts about supposed comparative differences) that you didn't actually know how a simple signal null test is performed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
...and since you're linking these posts / samples, it seems you still don't know how to perform a null test.

The files posted contain the same signal; it is identical right down to dither. And I already posted that fact in that thread you (suspiciously only partially) linked. Did you not read it? Or are you disregarding that info on purpose?
Old 13th February 2011
  #96
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
These are different takes! Differently played! Who would stage a double blind test on clocking differences using different performances?

These are mp4s! There's an insane amount of encoding related differences in those files already. Who on earth would stage a comparison from a lossy, perceptual compression format?

Also, the snare sample player timing is significantly different. They are not the same source files... / there are differences in there that have nothing to do with clocking.

.....

Either those staging these tests are lacking knowledge about decent methodology, or they really want to create test scenarios in which the procedure itself creates differences.

If any of those samples are by you, Dubai (or Goldmember, or whatever other nicknames you may go by), then please spend some time on learning some basic scientific testing methodology. Last time we talked in some thread, you showed (after your hundreds and hundreds of posts about supposed comparative differences) that you didn't actually know how a simple signal null test is performed...

...and since you're re-posting these samples, it seems you still don't know how to perform a null test.

The files posted contain the same signal; it is identical right down to dither. And I already posted that fact in that thread you (suspiciously only partially) linked. Did you not read it? Or are you disregarding that info on purpose?
Are Goldmember and Mundy the same person? If so, that is grounds for banishment from GS...
Old 13th February 2011
  #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
Are Goldmember and Mundy the same person?
I don't think so, and didn't mean to imply that. Goldmember used to post under the name of Dubai though.
Old 13th February 2011
  #98
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
ask someone to rename the files... and write down the key file.
there you have your blind test...
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-24bit-dry.wav
vs.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-24bit-dry.wav
Whaa? You'd have us believe that the difference in sound here is due to two different clocks? Are you intentionally trying to deceive or just don't know any better?

-R
Old 14th February 2011
  #99
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
...I think there's no substance to the idea that education in field X (science, for example) somehow denies ability in field Y (music, for example). Personally, I've only ever heard that point being made in order to say something positive about / defend ignorance.
amen!
Old 6th March 2011
  #100
Gear Maniac
 

I am testing a 10M and Trinity right now. I took a song with piano and vocal only and tried internal clock, Trinity, and then Trinity with 10m. In listening in the studio, there is a difference in sound. When recorded to CD, can not make out the difference.

I have not decided whether the difference in the studio sounds "better" than with an internal clock. It is different. Right now, it sounds very much to me how an aural exciter (Aphex / BBE) imprint would be.

I'm not saying I'm Bob Ludwig or anything, or that this proves anything, it's just one example of one person trying their best here to decipher a difference.

FWIW, I was really hoping to love the 10M/Trinity combo...not that the testing is over....
Old 6th March 2011
  #101
Lives for gear
 
Zep Dude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmgoldsmith View Post
I am testing a 10M and Trinity right now. I took a song with piano and vocal only and tried internal clock, Trinity, and then Trinity with 10m. In listening in the studio, there is a difference in sound. When recorded to CD, can not make out the difference.

I have not decided whether the difference in the studio sounds "better" than with an internal clock. It is different. Right now, it sounds very much to me how an aural exciter (Aphex / BBE) imprint would be.

I'm not saying I'm Bob Ludwig or anything, or that this proves anything, it's just one example of one person trying their best here to decipher a difference.

FWIW, I was really hoping to love the 10M/Trinity combo...not that the testing is over....
This is similar to what I experienced. There's a slight difference but not clearly "better" just different. In both studios where I tested it we monitored from benchmark dac's which notoriously reject jitter so I wonder if this neutralized the atomic clock. Others who I talked to who heard a bigger difference were using pro tools like a tape machine playing multiple tracks through a console. Also we listened at 44.1k. Another engineer who bought the atomic told me he heard a bigger difference at 96k.
Old 17th June 2011
  #102
Lives for gear
 
DONNX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep Dude View Post
This is similar to what I experienced. There's a slight difference but not clearly "better" just different. In both studios where I tested it we monitored from benchmark dac's which notoriously reject jitter so I wonder if this neutralized the atomic clock. Others who I talked to who heard a bigger difference were using pro tools like a tape machine playing multiple tracks through a console. Also we listened at 44.1k. Another engineer who bought the atomic told me he heard a bigger difference at 96k.
That would be likely. Because there much more going on at 96k. Its like.... You are telling your computer, hey 65mph isn't want we are doing today, I need you to speed it up to 100mph. And keep at that until I get tired.

I hear jitter being more prevalent and of an issue, when I am finished with the mix. At that stage of the game. I really don't want jitter issues on the mix... I A/D and D/A a lot. Due to my setup and methods of recording.

So for me, I need a solid "slave master" to run those converters. And so far, with 44.1K 16bit or 24bit, Big Ben has been putting my workers in check and I am content with his performance. He has a lock tight operation going on. Why spend 10K? Now if it made me sound like a guaranteed platinum mixer and other reputable listeners said.. "WTH???, who is that guy or who mixed that record? Thats the best damm mix I ever heard in history of music! Is he using a new piece of gear or technology?". I would lay 10K down right now. So I am a hard spender for something like this as of now.

In conclusion, a good clock to me , it a device that smooths everything out puts them in their proper place. Digital info must be involved with symmetry. Like the ying and the yang.. From 20hz to 20Khz. And stabilize. The original intended meter must be heard not all over the digital map due to jitter.

IMHO, a mixer who implements a lot of AD and DA traffic within the mix should use a master clock of high grade. A good clock show display the following. The music should still, be clear and focused, be bumping like Einstein doing the math, possess enhanced width and defined placement of all instruments performing on the landscape.


Big Ben master clock has always done a good enough job for me and my X series when all is said and done on 44.1K and 16 bit with the current state of audio and its quality in a commercial sense... I mean no offense to anyone. or the company. But if I was to pay 10K on a clock system alone. I would need every engineer friend I know tell me, "This is the piece of gear you gotta have to stay in the race". Sorry, I haven't heard that as of yet or seen it.
Old 17th June 2011
  #103
Gear Addict
 

cool. i was wondering how much this unit costs. i'm definitely going to buy one.
Old 17th June 2011
  #104
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX View Post
44.1K and 16 bit
I know this is OT, but why 16 bit instead of 24 bit at your place? Thanks,

J~
Old 17th June 2011
  #105
Gear Nut
 

I definitely will not ever sell mine. Indispensable in my setup.
Old 18th June 2011
  #106
Q & A Guest
 
ev33's Avatar
Antelope vs Internal comparison

Hey,

I started a new thread that relates to this one. It is as much about A/B listening as it is the Antelope stuff so I thought it might be better to be a separate thread. Here is the link to the new thread:

Antelope Trinity 10M vs. Internal Clock comparison

best,

EV
Old 19th June 2011
  #107
Lives for gear
 
DONNX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
I know this is OT, but why 16 bit instead of 24 bit at your place? Thanks,

J~


My bad, thats where my sessions end up at. Didn't get too detailed, I know. There are some "big leagues" who do mix at 16 bit when given 24bit sessions.. Its all about sound man. What you like. Some do it for that reason, some do it for faster work flow.
Old 27th January 2013
  #108
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Rob G's Avatar
 

Attached Thumbnails
Antelope Audio 10m Atomic Clock getting sold off by owners?-10m-trinity-192s-4496.jpg  
Old 29th November 2013
  #109
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burns46824's Avatar
If you get an Orion 32, you don't need a Trinity to use it with a 10M. The Orion has a 10M input!
Old 5th October 2014
  #110
Here for the gear
 

There's "theory" and then there's "arguments from authority." Independently verifiable "theory" is what allows us to make "informed" choices. Without theory we can be mislead by claims of enhanced "depth" "shine" "openness" and other poorly defined subjective perceptions of audio quality. Flawed psychoacoustic perception is a real phenomenon. Acoustically focused clocking just sounds exactly like it is: marketing rubbish.
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